Keep Leading!® Podcast 102 | Transformational Leadership | Dr. Terry Jackson

Eddie Turner:

And with that, I want to say hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Keep Leading LIVE™. Keep Leading LIVE™, like the Keep Leading!® Podcast, is dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, facilitation, and professional speaking.

So, I’ve got a great guest today. I’ve got a true professor, a true leader here that I think you’re going to learn a lot from. And who is he? Well, let me tell you.

Well, I guess, we actually talk about what we’re going to say first, right? This is the Keep Leading!® Podcast, obviously, and it’s all about leadership. And I’ve talked about leadership from multiple angles with my guests but here’s an angle that I teach but I haven’t talked about on the show yet. So, I’m excited to talk about Transformational Leadership.

Transformational leadership, what is that? Well, to address that we’re bringing in Dr. Terry Jackson. Now, let me tell you about Dr. Terry Jackson. Dr. Terry Jackson is an executive advisor and a TEDx speaker. He’s also a Thinkers 50 top 50 world leader in coaching. Terry also was named by the Thinkers 360 as a top 20 global leader in the Future of Work and CIO Review Magazine named Terry as one of the top 10 Most Promising Leadership Development Solution Providers in 2019. If that’s not enough, I did say Dr. Terry Jackson and that’s because Dr. Jackson has a PhD in Management and he is one of Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 coaches.

Dr. Jackson, welcome to Keep Leading LIVE™.

Terence Jackson:

Thank you, Mr. Eddie Turner. Thank you for that very gracious introduction. I was wondering who you were talking about there for a minute.

Eddie Turner:

Well, you’re too kind, sir. And it is just an honor to have a gentleman of your caliber here on the show. This is what this show is all about. And so, we are both members of the MG100. And so, that’s how we’ve gotten to know each other and to be able to listen to your insights on our morning calls is truly a delight. So, we’re going to share you with the Keep Leading!® audience so more people can get to know about you.

Terence Jackson:

Thank you so very much. I look forward to it. It’s a pleasure to be on your show.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you. Terry, I guess the first question is, we should probably start off with what is transformation.

Terence Jackson:

That’s a very good question because a lot of people have the tendency to associate transformation or define transformation and change and say they’re synonymous and they’re actually not. The example I like to use is, of course, the analogy of from the caterpillar to the butterfly, right? That is a true transformation. Change in and of itself is different. Change can be reversed. For instance, one goes on a diet in hopes that they’ll lose 15 pounds. Well, they lose 15 pounds and then all of a sudden nine months from that they regained the 15 pounds. There was no transformation of mindset, transformation of dietary regimen, transformation of changing your lifestyle where you can exercise on a day-to-day basis to maintain that. Well, transformation is really about the assertion that the actions that you create today will create your future tomorrow. And so, transformation is beginning today creating a tomorrow but that tomorrow, the change is not based upon the past. Everything with change is based upon the past. So, basically, where we are now with COVID-19, this is a full transformation. This isn’t change because how we engage with clients, how we engage as human beings, that’s been transformed now and we really don’t know what that’s going to look like day by day, given what is happening with the virus. And so, that same type of thing happens with organizations as well. Organizations say “Well, we’re going to go through a change management process” and they go through it and then all of a sudden, five years from now, they’re still where they are because there wasn’t that cultural transformation again from that caterpillar to the butterfly, right? They didn’t prepare themselves mentally, physically. They didn’t disrupt themselves, right? They went on with the status quo talking about change but not really embedding it and implementing it into the culture, their DNA.

Eddie Turner:

I love that illustration with the caterpillar and how you explained that and setting us up with transformation. Can you connect that to leadership then for us, transformational leadership?

Terence Jackson:

Oh yes, and that’s the key, because, for me, I believe that all roads lead from and to leadership. And I think that every initiative actually is a transformational issue for leaders. Now, let’s take society today, let’s take where we are today. We are in some very trying times today. And given that, not only trying from a social perspective, from an organizational perspective, business models, new business models are being created simply because we were disrupted by COVID-19. In society, new societal rules are being created because of the George Floyd situation. People are revisiting diversity and inclusion as they’ve never done before. And I’m hearing more people talk about humanity versus titles and organizations. And so, with that, leaders are learning how to lead in a different way. We’re at the intersection of intellect and instinct. And so, what we’re really talking about in survival. And there are new skills that are needed in this. One of the skills is your counter-intuitiveness and how you utilize that counter-intuitiveness to do not what your habits would normally tell you to do but do just the opposite. And so, people are transforming right before our eyes because they’re breaking down their old habits, creating new habits and new pathways because they are not sure where we are headed as it relates to the economy and as it relates to society but what they see before them is new opportunity. And those opportunities are presenting themselves as a result of the transformation that’s been going on across the world because of COVID-19 and a transformation that is happening as a result of what we’ve seen in society. And so, some people are walking on eggshells and that’s simply because there’s a lot of transformation happening. And step by step and through the use of counter-intuitiveness, they’re making their way and we’re going to come out much greater and much better on the other side.

Eddie Turner:

Well, is this going to be the new normal?

Terence Jackson:

That’s interesting because I think transformation is a continuing process. It’s been accelerated. And the phrase “the new normal”, I don’t know what normal is, right? And so, as a result of that, there are organizations who’ve been using the new normal and the next normal and I’m not sure if it’s going to be the new normal or the next normal but what I do know is we’re going to continue the pace of change or transformation is going to continue to accelerate, we’re going to continue to have to remake ourselves and remake organizations. And so, if you want to say that transformation is the new norm, I would answer yes.

Eddie Turner:

Well, I asked that because when we look at that and you put together several events and boy, we could talk an hour on each one, you brought up obviously the COVID crisis and how this ties into the COVID, George Floyd and the situation around his death and we can talk about all of the recent deaths of black people in America and what that has meant. And so, all of that is affecting leaders in a different way and it’s calling on all leaders to think about transformation obviously and what that means. That’s why I asked you about do you think that’s going to be the new normal. And, as you said, some people are trying to figure out new normal, next normal, abnormal and all the likes.

Terence Jackson:

Well, interesting times. That’s all. Very interesting times.

Eddie Turner:

Interesting times indeed.

Angie is weighing in. She said “Adaptation and transformation is the key with business as well as personal. Such an important topic. Thank you.” Angie, you’re spot on. Thank you so much for weighing in and sharing your thoughts. We appreciate that.

Terence Jackson:

It’s interesting because she just used the word ‘adaptation’ and there’s an acronym that I like to use when I hear ‘adapt’ and it relates to transformation and that is to anticipate, right? So, you have to be able to anticipate what’s going to happen down the street and around the corner, right? You have to be able to anticipate. As a business leader, you have to be able to anticipate that as someone in society, right? What’s going to happen next? And then you go from the anticipation to the drive, right? You have to have the drive to be able to … once you anticipate and you see what’s happening, the drive to continue in the direction that you’re headed, the internal drive to be motivated. And then you have to be able to accelerate during that drive and during that anticipation because this is the slowest day um for the rest of your life right here, today. Everything else is going to get much faster. And then from that you have to be able to partner with people and collaborate as organizations because we’re going down a pathway that’s not comfortable for us, it’s not familiar with us. And then at the end of the day, the key word to tie that all together is ‘trust’ and you have to have the courage not only to trust yourself but to trust your organization, trust leadership, and trust that society is becoming much better for this.

So, ADAPT is an extremely important concept within transformation.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed, well said, well said.

I am talking to Dr. Terry Jackson and he had a long list of credentials but one of them is the fact that he is one of Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 coaches and he is a PhD in Management. We’re talking about Transformational Leadership. We’ll have more right after this.

Eddie Turner:

At this point in the show, I always have to stop and acknowledge. I have several sponsors of the show who we listed on the website but there’s one sponsor who renews over and over. And so, we give this particular sponsor a little extra time on the show and that is Grand Heron International. The key to sustainable leadership lies in the ability to thrive during uncertainty, ambiguity, and change. Grand Heron International brings you the Coaching Assistance Program, giving your employees on-demand coaching to manage through a challenging situation and arrive at a solution. Visit GrandHeronInternational.ca/Podcast to learn more.

I love my friends over there Grand Heron International in Canada, just a phenomenal coaching service that they provide to leaders everywhere, quite frankly. Even though they’re based in Canada, their reach is global. So, please visit them and support Grand Heron International.

Before the break, you used a couple good illustrations for us to help us understand transformational leadership, its impact on leaders today. And we had a great comment that came in from one of the individuals who runs the ICF headquarters, and does some great work for our coaches around the world, Angie Holleran. And Angie talked about how the adaptation and transformation is key with business as well as personal. And, quite frankly, that’s what leadership is all about, right? We can’t show up in business as someone different than who we are personally. And so, making that connection is absolutely important. So, we want to thank Angie for that.

Something else that you do, when I look at your website, is you do a lot around change management. And as coaches, our ultimate goal is to get people to change behaviors. So, tell us the link between transformation and change.

Terence Jackson:

Well, that’s very interesting because change happens within transformation, that whole process. So, it is a construct within the whole discipline of transformation. However, to make the distinction, transformation doesn’t necessarily happen within change and I gave that distinction earlier. So, as I talk about and I implement change management through coaching, it’s really about getting the people to take a look at themselves, define what it is they’d like to be able to change and then to go on that journey, right? And ultimately, that journey, even though it’s based and rooted in change management, I want it ultimately to come out as a transformational journey for them that they continue and that they continue to understand what it is to evolve. And I’ll go back to the analogy that I used of the caterpillar to the butterfly. I want them to be able to see that at the very beginning of the change. So, we’re talking behavior change but I want you to be able to see a new being. For instance, I utilize coaching methodology that lot of us are very familiar with and that is the Marshall Goldsmith Methodology. And so, in that, we get executives to take a look at their behaviors or their stakeholders to take a look at their behaviors and help identify what areas within their management or leadership or as a human being that could be changed, it would help them go to the next level of performance within an organization or the next level of performance as a human being because we’re dealing with a human being. And you said it a few minutes ago. You want to show up the same in person as you do in business because we make up 100% as a human being, we are 100%. So, we can’t really separate one from the other even though we here leave work at work and leave home at home. No, home is going to impact work, work is going to impact home. So, as we talk about that behavior change, say increased executive presence, how to become a better communicator, whatever we do around that behavior change is going to have a positive impact in professional life as well as our personal life. So, we begin with that change in hopes that that change leads to an ever-evolving transformation as you begin to be able to assess who you are as an individual and what it means for you to become a better individual and take whatever that performance is to a new level and that performance, I will also say, as a human being how do you really engage and become a better human being and really be able to connect to humanity because I think that’s where we are right now from a leadership perspective, right? We’re seeing some very human acts out there. We’re understanding that it’s human beings that are being impacted, not necessarily CIOs or CEOs or CTOs or managers and leaders, those titles. It’s Eddie Turner, it’s Terry Jackson, it’s the humanity of it’s all that’s really being transformed.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed. Well said. And you made a good point that change is a component of transformation. If we’re going to be transformational or transform, as that caterpillar illustration, we have to change.

That leads me to wonder are there any other components to transformation that we should be thinking about as leaders?

Terence Jackson:

That’s an excellent question. I’m not big on plugging anything that I’ve done but I wrote a book on transformation.

Eddie Turner:

Plug away. Let us know.

Terence Jackson:

I wrote a book on Transformational Thinking: The First Step to Individual and Organizational Greatness. And so, within that book, I talk about several models and I talk about, what I call, the 11Ps of Transformation.

Eddie Turner:

The 11Ps.

Terence Jackson:

The 11Ps. And so, there are truly some components to transformation. When we’re dealing with the human being, we have to deal with a lot of things. The first we have to deal with is our perception, how we perceive things as we move forward. And let me give you an illustration here or a passage. It says “By broadening our horizons, our perceptions, we can begin to see what our potential really is. If we combine this potential by honestly committing ourselves to taking action which is consistently fair and ethical, our principles, we can commit ourselves fully to passion, to a set of beliefs as we learn about how we communicate and interact with others and we can include people in our thinking, we can define our life’s goals, our purpose and our plan and how to achieve our goals and create methods, processes through which we can ensure success finally by not giving up our perseverance that drive that journey. And being open to change, meaning that you’re pliable, we will be able to sustain our efforts and ensure that we are always headed in the right direction.” And so, that passage contains the 11Ps of transformation, the 11Ps of transformational thinking that are needed in order to have a successful transformational journey.

Eddie Turner:

All right. So, then you got to make sure you send me that book. Send me the book because when I publish this as a regular episode, I’m going to put the book on my website so listeners can link to it, okay?

Terence Jackson:

I sure will.

Eddie Turner:

Something came up. I got an email from our mutual friend Ayse Birsel and she invited me, she says Dr. Terry Jackson has started something that she’s passionate about. She says “Would you be part of this discussion?” So, you got us all together for a project that you started. I want you to tell my audience about this – Deconstruct Racism and Reconstruct Love.

Terence Jackson:

Wow, I didn’t know that was going to come up. Well, I’ll tell you we were all struggling with what we saw with George Floyd. And, of course, in our MG100 WhatsApp group, everybody was kind of searching for what you can do or what we can do in order to have an impact and hopefully change society. And I saw Ayse’s post that said “I really don’t know what to do. I want to do something but I don’t know what to do.” And so, as I thought about it, I’m like “She already has the model. Her model is from her book Design the Life You Love.” And so, what came to me was why don’t we deconstruct racism and reconstruct love. And so, with that, she loved the idea, we began to have a series of emails that included you and others within the MG100 and we began to convene via Zoom to talk about what makes racism what it is and what makes love what it is and to define it in four quadrants. Each has its own four quadrants that we were defining. And as we describe it, define it, of course, we’ll eventually compare and contrast and then develop solutions as to how we take this very valuable time that we have, because everyone has slowed down, so we can become more human, how we can really examine this thing known as racism and how can we deconstruct it and hopefully infuse some energy in it, some positive energy and turn this thing into love, right? People can understand from a very foundational perspective that we’re all human beings regardless of this construct called race. Now, the construct of race is a man-made construct but racism is real even though the is man-made. And so how, do you deconstruct it and then reconstruct love so that we can take these solutions and give them to the world and people can use it in hopes that we become better human beings as a result. And so, I’m excited about the project. I’ve heard some great terms. There’s been some great conversation but when you talk about deconstruction and reconstruction, we can use that in so many ways. There are people now who are deconstructing who they are given the fact of everything that’s happening. There industries that are being deconstructed. And it all ties back to leadership, right? Leaders listening and helping to facilitate thoughts and helping to facilitate action in this new society in which we’re moving into. So, it’s exciting times. It’s both exhilarating and exhausting at the same time.

Eddie Turner:

Absolutely. Well, I totally have enjoyed our first couple of sessions. I missed last week. I can’t wait for our session this week and keep the conversation going. So, thank you for what you’re doing on that for us.

Well, folks, we’re getting close to our wrap-up. If you have any questions for Dr. Jackson, please go ahead, put it in the chat box. And I’m just so grateful to everyone who’s joined us all the way from the UK, from the east coast and we have California in here and even folks who I haven’t seen in a while that I worked with years ago. I always love when that happens. I never know who’s going to come into the live show and that’s part of the fun of doing this. So, thank you, thank you, thank you.

While we’re waiting for any other questions, do you have an overarching message you would like to leave our listeners with today?

Terence Jackson:

Yes, thank you for that. And it’s related to transformation and transformational thinking and transformational leadership. And I like to pose these questions to people. Is it time that we all begin to assume the responsibility for improving our own lives and the world in which we live? Is it time to recognize our differences as a source of increased perception rather than barriers? Is it time we all get off our individual and collective butts and begin contributing and constructing rather than denouncing and destroying? Is it time to come together in a spirit of true communication, cooperation, and coordination? Is it time to build upon our strengths and develop our weaknesses? Is it time we recognize and celebrate the human spirit and tap into the incredible source of unlimited potential, redirecting our energy, time and efforts toward more constructive and meaningful purposes so that we minimize the impact of what we are seeing given the situation with George Floyd? Is it time for transformational leadership and transformational thinking? And the answer is yes.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Well, thank you very much.

On the Keep Leading!® Podcast and on Keep Leading LIVE™, I love to get your favorite quote, when I’m talking to leaders, that keeps you motivated or either the best advice you’ve ever received.

Terence Jackson:

The best advice I’ve ever received. And I want to say it actually is a part of your show, the title of your show, and from Alan Mullaly, and he’s a MG100 and it is “Keep leading.” So, keep leading means regardless if you’re up, if you’re down, there are people who depend on you to lead. You depend on yourself to lead yourself. So, you have to keep leading. You can’t mire yourself down in whatever obstacles may present themselves. You have to find ways over, around and under those obstacles. So, you just have to keep leading.

Eddie Turner:

I appreciate all my guests for tuning in. Where can they find you if they would like to find you to stay connected with you?

Terence Jackson:

If they want to find me and stay connected with me, I’m very active on LinkedIn. You can find me at Terence Jackson, Ph.D. You can also email me at Terry@JCGConsultingGroup.com. And so, either on social media, I’m on Twitter, it’s Dr. Terry Jackson. That’s how you can locate me. I like to be very in touch with my fans on a personal basis. And so, I don’t limit how you have access to me.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. Well, I’m going to make sure I put that in the show notes. We’ll make it easy. They’ll have one click to be able to get to you.

Terry, again for being a guest on Keep Leading LIVE™ and helping us all to understand the power of transformational leadership.

Terence Jackson:

Thank you. It was an honor and a privilege to be here.

Eddie Turner:

And thank you for listening and tuning in across the internet across the globe. I’m so grateful every week when we have an active conversation with the audience. Want to remind everyone, as I say every week, leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is action. Leadership is an activity. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment that we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.