Jeff Davis
International Speaker & Author

The Courage to Leave

Episode Summary

What does it take to walk away from success—and toward authenticity? In this inspiring episode of the Keep Leading!® Podcast, host Eddie Turner sits down with Jeff Davis, speaker, author, and former corporate executive, to explore the true meaning of courage in leadership and life.

Jeff shares his personal journey of leaving a high-powered career to pursue purpose, alignment, and freedom. Together, Eddie and Jeff unpack the emotional resilience behind major transitions, the cost of staying versus the reward of leaving, and how self-leadership shapes personal and professional reinvention.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating career change, leadership transformation, or personal growth—and a reminder that real courage isn’t just about leading others, but leading yourself.

🎙️ Tune in now to gain actionable insights, inspiration, and strategies to help you Keep Leading!®

Keep Leading!® Live

Bio
Jeff Davis is the award-winning author of four books and a sought-after professional speaker, consultant, and mental health advocate. With keynote speeches delivered worldwide, Jeff is recognized as an expert in mental health, authentic leadership, resilience, and more. A TEDx speaker and Forbes contributor, he’s frequently featured on top podcasts. Jeff speaks and consults with schools, nonprofits, organizations, associations, and businesses, and has interviewed influential figures, including a billionaire, Senators, CEOs, and New York Times bestselling authors. Referred to as “The Muhammad Ali of Mental Health,” Jeff is known for his deep insights and openness. He’s traveled to five continents and holds a master’s degree from Johns Hopkins Carey Business School. Originally from Connecticut, Jeff currently resides in Tampa Bay, Florida.

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About the Keep Leading!® Podcast

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Transcript

Eddie Turner:
Hello everyone. Welcome to Keep Leading Live. Keep Leading Live as the Keep Leading Podcast, live stream version, is dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host, Eddie Turner, the leadership accelerator. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, masterful facilitation,

and professional speaking. Today I’m streaming live on LinkedIn, YouTube and Facebook. Share, hit that share button so that your friends could get a copy of this recording when it’s completed or even be able to tap in live as we’re having this discussion. And if you have questions for my guests, feel free to submit your questions. And as long as they come through on the platform, sometimes they don’t.

I’m happy to entertain that live and allow my expert guests to answer your questions. Look for this episode also via replay, not just on the social media feeds, but also on your favorite podcast platform where you can download the audio anywhere in the world. And if you’re using Spotify, you’ll get the audio and the video.

Have you ever been in a situation where you were so frustrated at work? You were so just feeling like you were being eviscerated, that you wanted to give up, just throwing the towel? More and more people are reporting feeling that way. But for a variety of reasons, they have to hang on.

And so they deal with these circumstances that are less than healthy, that are less than ideal. What can you do? To answer that question, I’ve invited my expert guest today, Jeff Davis. Jeff Davis has taken his own experiences and those of countless others and detailed them in his new book.

Eddie Turner:
that is entitled, The Courage to Leave, Breaking Free from Toxic Workplaces. So in our conversation today, we’re gonna talk about how you can recognize toxic work environments, what you can do about them, and how you can protect your mental health while strategizing for your next career move. Jeff is the person to talk about this.

And this isn’t his only book. He’s written four books and he’s a leadership expert in addition to being a mental health expert. Jeff, welcome to the Keep Bleeding podcast.

Jeff Davis:
Eddie, absolute pleasure to be here. I’m looking forward to our discussion today.

Eddie Turner:
Well, it’s an honor to have you and something else about you that people may not know that I am dying to find out the answer to is you’ve been referred to as the Muhammad Ali of mental health. How did that come about?

Jeff Davis:
Yes, so I have a dear friend and colleague who is a fellow speaker and that’s a nickname he gave me because he noticed I was very persistent in talking about mental health and it’s also something that a lot of people avoid, which we of course share respectfully, but at the same time realize that to shatter the taboo and to help people, we need to keep talking about it. And this dear friend of mine by the name of Aditya, he saw that despite

people not necessarily agreeing with me speaking up about it or understanding or even always supporting it. I always truly believed in that North Star to speak up, to help people with their mental health and to keep this conversation going. So he gave me that nickname and it’s one that has stuck.

Eddie Turner:
that’s a tall order. Very nice. So the courage to leave. Tell us what made you write this book.

Jeff Davis:
Yes, the courage to leave. as throughout my career, I’ve done multiple things simultaneously. I’ve been this writer and professional speaker, and I’ve had my corporate career, and they’ve both supported and complimented one another. And in a transparent way, I will share with the purpose of helping other people that I’ve dealt with an extraordinary amount of toxic workplaces. Now, this is not to complain. I’m sharing this to shine a light on it and to help other people who may be struggling as well.

I’m talking about walking out on the spot in a job I had in Times Square, New York City, dealing with a corrupt CEO in Connecticut. I had a very unfortunate situation happen at a team event in New York where a colleague actually charged me with a weapon, specifically a knife, and he had to be held back by some of his colleagues. A very unfortunate. I then go overseas to the Netherlands. I lived overseas for many years and I dealt with

a number of toxic companies, including a corrupt multi-billion euro conglomerate that I stood up to with, my team of lawyers. Now I share all that because I’m one person. And for this book I wrote, it was really important to me that I get other perspectives in the book talking about all different kinds of workplace harassment. And I’m speaking up about it because it’s prevalent and because not enough people are talking about it. And there are many people who feel stuck in a loan.

And my most sincere hope, desire and intention is that people feel heard, seen, acknowledged and valued by this discussion that’s happening.

Eddie Turner:
Interesting. Thank you for sharing that.

birthing of a book where it came from. So when you start to dissect what a toxic workplace looks like, how do you help people to understand the difference between a toxic workplace as compared to a workplace that just has your typical challenges that we should all expect?

Jeff Davis:
Yes, it’s a subtle nuance and it will actually vary per person in the sense that what one person may interpret as harassment may not necessarily be that way to another person. But the important distinction here is that on the person on the receiving end, if they feel it’s harassment, then it is. So what I would say is, is it something that’s recurring? Is it being repeated over time? I think about my friend Anya, who I featured in the book, who worked at Metta.

aka Facebook, and the subtle bullying she experienced was not direct and it was not overt, but it was covert where it happened repeatedly. So a lot of times a one-off event can occur and we all make mistakes, myself included. And if that event can be addressed respectfully, and if it can be prevented moving forward, you may not be dealing with a toxic workplace, you’re just dealing with the imperfection of human beings. If those events occur repeatedly,

If there’s nothing being done to prevent it from moving forward, if people aren’t open to conversations, and if you feel like you’re being bullied or harassed or discriminated against, then indeed it is a toxic environment. So that is the nuance to pay attention to.

Eddie Turner:
Show 1-2.

Jeff Davis:
Say that again.

Eddie Turner:
What should one do in those circumstances?

Jeff Davis:
Yes. So if you are in that situation where you find that you’re being bullied and harassed, first of all, I encourage anyone and everyone to speak up. There’s enormous power in speaking up. That could be to your boss, to your boss’s boss, even someone in leadership in the executive C-suite. Now I do acknowledge that it can be very scary to speak up and not everyone may want to do that. So there are other things that you can do where you can talk to colleagues about the situation.

and you can seek resources. I will say that human resources often is not as supportive as they claim to be, but I will say that in every workplace, even with bad eggs, you can find at least one person who might be able to advocate or sponsor for you, or can at least be a listening ear. Another thing I encourage people to do is that when the bullying becomes extreme and it becomes something that’s really hurting your health, I encourage others to seek legal counsel.

There are all sorts of workplace lawyers, employment lawyers, and that’s something that could be very valuable as well. Seeking legal counsel is how in fact I defeated the corrupt company. So those are things you can do. It doesn’t mean you have to quit on the spot. I do encourage others to look for new opportunities and to get out of there if the entire ecosystem is toxic. As you said to me once before, Eddie, in one of our previous conversations, sometimes the toxicity is completely pervasive in that culture.

In that case, I say get out. And if you’re not able to leave on the spot because you need the income to pay your bills, then that’s where you’re looking for a new job while biding your time. And as I said, while speaking up about the situation.

Eddie Turner:
You said that sometimes HR is not as helpful as we might hope. And in your book, you refer to your own experience with the actual director of HR.

Jeff Davis:
Yes, that is something that I found not only in my experience, but in the conversations with many other people. And I learned this the hard way. I was a little bit in the dark at first where I thought, it’s human resources. They’re there to help you. And more often than not, and it’s not black and white, but more often than not, I will say this, human resources is there to protect the interests of the company.

Now, yes, there are exceptions to the rule. There are good HR people out there as well. However, a lot of the times they’re not going to have your best interests at heart. They may not help you to end bullying if, for example, the perpetrator is someone who is valued by the company. They may not even respect the fact that you spoke up. So that’s something crucial to keep in mind that HR director, I defeated him by

consulting the legal resources, I talked to colleagues both in and outside of the workplace who were also dealing with his harassment demands, threats and corruption. And then of course, knowing that knowledge is power and applied knowledge is power, I was able to speak up not only with my lawyers, but I actually spoke up to the global CEO of the company. And I told the global CEO respectfully what happened and he proceeded to fire the HR director. So I really, really espouse the power.

of speaking up and it’s something that I’ve seen in my experience and I’ve seen work for other people as well.

Eddie Turner:
Now, what you’re describing requires a lot of courage. That’s not something that is within the realm of many people. So where does this courage come from?

Jeff Davis:
That’s a great point. And I’ve never been asked that specific question before. tip kudos and hats off to you for that. I first of all would say, find your inner strength. If you’re, if you’re seeking for your courage, first of all, it’s okay. If you feel scared, in fact, acknowledge that you feel scared. like to tell others about a technique called R A V recognize, acknowledge, validate. And I’m sharing this to help others find their inner strength and then ultimately courage at their core.

You recognize, you simply are recognizing how you’re feeling. You acknowledge it. I see you, I feel you, and you validate it. You put a name to the emotion. You could say, you know, are you scared? Are you confused? Are you angry? Maybe it’s a mix of all of that. And once you’ve gone through that process and you’ve done the inner work, you can connect with your inner strength, and that’s how you can find courage. I would also say to know this,

When you speak up, it’s not just for you. It’s for other people as well. That corrupt company, there was someone who was actually considering this is very sad, very, very sad. He was considering ending his life because the HR director bullied harassed and threatened him to such an extreme point. He called me up and I convinced him to continue living. I’m saying this because finding courage comes from knowing that other people are hurting too.

Eddie Turner:
you

Jeff Davis:
and you’re helping a lot of people by speaking up. So connecting with your true self, acknowledging how you feel and going within to find that inner strength to say, you know what, I’m not gonna tolerate this anymore.

Eddie Turner:
Okay, well thank you for sharing that helpful tip for us, Jeff, and how we can muster up the courage to take an action. Because when you’re talking about taking on the HR director, taking on, you mentioned speaking to the global leadership team, that’s no small potato, as we say, where I came from.

Jeff Davis:
Yeah.

Eddie Turner:
Very good. All right, I want to take a quick pause here to acknowledge the sponsors of the Keep Leading podcast. If a single employee’s indecision can cost an organization $10,000 to a million dollars, imagine the potential financial impact when more individuals are added to this indecision equation. It can spiral out of control quickly. And

I would like to share here for those who are watching the live program what this looks like on the screen. Decision X is a bespoke on-demand service designed to help your leaders overcome a decision and move forward with their work. Visit Papillon MDC and discover how you can help your team get unstuck, perspective, and advance today. That’s Papillon.

MDC based out of Canada, my great friends there and Canada. All right. So we’ll stop sharing that one and switch over to the next organization I want to acknowledge. And that is the C-suite radio network. I mentioned in the introduction that you can download these episodes by visiting C-suite network.

dot com, where the C-suite radio is. So C-suite radio, the Keep Leading Podcast is a part of the C-suite radio network where we’re turning up the volume on business. So in addition to other places that you can download these episodes, visit the C-suite network and get connected to my other colleagues there who are also doing great podcasts. All right.

So I want to turn back to my conversation here with Jeff Davis. Jeff Davis is an award-winning author, professional speaker, a leadership and mental health expert, the book, out of these four books, the book we’re talking about today is The Courage to Leave. And you share with us some interesting ways to identify a toxic workplace.

Eddie Turner:
steps we can take if we find ourselves in that situation before our break. Here’s what I want to know, Jeff. You talked about it from an individual’s perspective who is going through it. What can leaders who are observing what this, what other individuals might be going through, what can they do? Because sometimes they see it unfolding and they know that that person is right into the core who is putting people through this.

But they feel, even though they’re in a leadership position, they feel paralyzed.

Jeff Davis:
Yes. Excellent question here. I’m going to start with a general point and then I’m going to go into a more specific point that I talk into with the book so that I can add as much value here as possible. So first off, we talked about courage. This is something that has come up in our discussion here today. And I would encourage the senior leaders, the executive team, the C-suite to have the courage to address the behavior with the bully. Now,

It may not mean firing them on the spot, but it could mean letting someone go. And what I’ve seen in my experience and also other people I talked to is that people knew who the bad egg or the bad eggs was or were, but the senior leaders didn’t have the courage to address it and to eventually let them go. So having the guts to sit them down and to acknowledge your behavior is hurting others. can walk them through a plan.

You can walk them through mentorship to improve. And if they don’t improve, you do need to let them go. Sounds simple. A lot of companies really struggle to let them go. I’ll now very quickly go into a four step process that truly can help all leaders to implement this at an entire organizational level. This is how culture shift occurs. First of all, we want, we want to step out of siloed training.

We want to look at the entire system, the entire culture of the organization. And if you can step away from just the individual and look at how could you train the entire team that will elevate things. Then we have experiential versus passive learning. And this is something where Eddie, you’re well versed this as a successful executive coach, where this is the power of mentoring and we can mentor team members to experientially learn and then.

essentially get live application in the workplace. This is something that senior leaders kick off, but the change is happening at the granular level. And I’m saying this because there’s that disconnect between senior leaders and the granular level, and this will bridge the gap. Two more things. We have a cognitive framework for behavioral change. So we’re looking at habits. looking at self-awareness. How can we bridge the self-awareness gap? And that’s something senior leaders can help.

Eddie Turner:
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Davis:
both themselves and the team do. And finally, custom and contextual facilitation. How do these changes impact the goals of the organization? And what I found in my research is that when colleagues, team members and employees can essentially align their habits with the goals of the organization, it will benefit both themselves and the entire company. We need senior leaders to kick this off. We need social proof. We need modeling behaviors. And then we need this ingr-

starting to be implemented at the granular level.

Eddie Turner:
Thank you. Are there any organizations that you consider best in class at following these steps?

Jeff Davis:
Yeah, that’s a great question. One of the organizations that’s best in class is Toyota. They have taken measures to completely transform their organization with this kind of effective leadership. So that’s one organization that I like to talk about. Toyota has been very, very strong in that regard as well. And then I can also think back to my own experiences in my own life. I work for a digital marketing.

consultancy in Connecticut called Acara Partners and they were excellent because the CEO embodied the leadership of putting his employees first. And because he put his employees first, the employees could then make the profits work. So that’s something that I also like to teach as a leadership expert that you need to put your employees first and they’ll make the profits and that’s way better than putting profits first and ringing out your employees.

Eddie Turner:
Absolutely, very good. Well, thank you, Jeff. You’ve shared very interesting information for us to understand how we can identify talks and workplaces and the steps you can take if we find ourselves in that position. One last item I’d like to cover is, you mentioned earlier how there were these restraints on people who find themselves in the situation.

be it financially, hey, I need this job, I can’t leave or whatever the reasons are. If they do realize that the only way out is to leave the organization, it’s not going to get better by staying or appealing or trying to work the mechanisms for improvement, how can they begin to set up successful exit strategy?

Jeff Davis:
Yes, there are many times where the only way out is to leave. And whether that means you’re leaving right now or soon or as soon as you can, that truly may be the best strategy in some cases. So first of all, what I like to coach others to do is to explore your options as much as possible. And this is something that I have lived.

I’ve experienced that others I’ve talked to as well. I’ll give you an example. Indeed indeed is a job search engine and I encourage you to look for jobs on indeed. And I’m not just talking about one or two, but let’s see if you can do five or seven, maybe 10, maybe if you’re really on fire, maybe it’s 20 applications in a single day. And I promise you from the most sincere part of who I am that there are other jobs out there. And I understand the fear that there aren’t, but there are.

And what I’ve seen a lot of people do is they’ll give up after a few rejections. And that’s why I’m saying, don’t just send a couple applications. Don’t give up after a few rejections, keep going and explore options via a job search engine. Like indeed you can work with recruiters. You can reach out to former colleagues. Colleagues can perhaps join you in that, in the job hunt in terms of helping you. Maybe it’s pulling you into their organization. Maybe it’s giving you ideas.

I like to encourage others to do informational interviewing where you’re identifying what’s a better job and career for you. And you explore that by reaching out to people via LinkedIn, via email, via networking events, like Rotary, Chamber of Commerce, Kiwanis, Lions, Toastmasters, et cetera. And you can interview people and identify exactly what kind of role that you desire to have. So these are all things that someone can do to get a better exit plan.

and to keep going. I acknowledge how incredibly hard it is, but there are other jobs out there waiting for you. You just have to keep persevering.

Eddie Turner:
Indeed. Thank you, Jeff. What’s the most important message you want our listeners to take away from our conversation?

Jeff Davis:
Most important message that I would like the listeners to take away from today’s conversation is that you are not alone. One, you are not alone. So many countless people are dealing with workplace toxicity and they feel stuck all around the world. I promise you, you’re not alone. And number two, you have options, you have choices, you have other possibilities. And that’s why you can then move forward to step into activating those possibilities.

Eddie Turner:
Thank you. What quote do you use to help you keep leading?

Jeff Davis:
Yes, there is a phenomenal, fantastic quote by the legendary coach, John Wooden. he talks about, in his specific quote, is that the essential primary key to leadership is to first lead and change yourself and to model that behavior yourself. He talks about the primary key is to first model and change that behavior yourself.

So you have to lead by leading by example. And John Wood is talking about leading by example. And that’s why I love that quote so much.

Eddie Turner:
Leading by example, and as our show says, keep leading. Very nice. Thank you for sharing that. I want to make sure folks know to reach out to you at jeffdespeaks.com. D as in David, for those who are listening to this on audio. I am showing the actual website for those who are tuned into the live program. Very, very nice. Jeff, it’s been a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you for being a guest today on the Keep.

leading podcast.

Jeff Davis:
My pleasure, Eddie. Thank you so much for having me today.

Eddie Turner:
And thank you for listening. That concludes this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, the Leadership Accelerator, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is action. Leadership is an activity. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment that we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate.

in all we do. So whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.