Keep Leading!® Podcast 093 | No Success Without Leadership | Ramon Ray

Hello, everyone! Welcome to Keep Leading LIVE™, the video version of the Keep Leading!® Podcast. Today, I am streaming live on YouTube and Facebook as I do every Monday at 1 o’clock p.m. Central Standard Time. Today, of course, is not Monday. This is the first time I’m streaming live on a Friday and the first time I am streaming on LinkedIn Live. So, I want to extend a very warm welcome to all of you who have tuned in and joined us on all three platforms. The Keep Leading LIVE™ stream like the Keep Leading!® Podcast is dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact.What is the secret to success? My guest today says there’s no success without leadership. My guest today is a bestselling author and founder of Smart Hustle Media, Ramon Ray, and you see him right there with me.

Thanks for having me here, man.

Ramon Ray is the author of four books. He’s been an expert witness for the United States congress. He spoke at the white house on Personal Branding. Ramon interviewed president Obama in the president’s first live video chat and was with Ivanka Trump at the Global Entrepreneurship Summit in India. Ramon is a very impressive gentleman and for these reasons and more, I am excited to welcome Ramon Ray with me today.

You are awesome, Eddie. Thanks for having me to Keep Leading LIVE™, the live stream on Friday. I appreciate being with you serving your audience, whether you can hear me or not. Thanks for having me.

All right, fantastic. So, Ramon, let’s talk about how you and I met. And to talk about how you and I met, there’s something that I want to share and ask you about and get your feedback on.

You’re not going to embarrass me, right?

Well, I don’t know if you consider it embarrassing or not. You might consider it embarrassing, let’s see.

We’ll see.

If I could now recover from my earlier mishap, the first time I met you was February 2016.

Okay.

Remember that shot?

I do remember that. You welcomed me and greeted me. I was a new NSA member, I believe, in that photo. Yes, maybe.

Oh, I didn’t realize you were new.

I think or you had to come from Houston, I believe, and visiting us, I believe, something like that.

I was living in New York at the time. That was my first meeting at the New York chapter of the National Speakers Association.

Maybe I was greeting you. Either way, I do remember that picture, absolutely. We were brothers.

Yes, we were brothers. That was my first time. And now my screen just went to sleep on me. This is just a fun day here. Let’s try this again. There we go. So, that was the first time we met. And then another cool shot that I pulled from the archives is when we were together last year at Influence 2019.

Yes, that was nice. That was the time, absolutely.

Influence 2019, yes, that was something special. And tell everybody the reason why influence 2019 was so special?

Well, Influence in general is special because just full of thousands of thousands of speakers but what are you getting at? Tell me.

Does this picture bring it back to mind for you? Oh, sorry, you can’t see the picture. I lost the screen. let me try that again.

No problem. The excitement is palpitating. I think, it’s an English word.Oh yes, we received the Certified Speaking Professional Award and the 6 of us there from the New York City chapter are wearing our bronze medallions.

Yes, yes. So, the last picture I showed you, you didn’t see. I goofed. So, Influence 2019 will always be special to you and I because we are part of the class of 2019 of Certified Speaking Professional credential holders.

Yes. And I think that was one of the first times I had my new shoes from Cole Haan, which I was very proud of and I haven’t worn for months.

Oh, they were awesome. It’s funny you say that. My wife had me take her someplace yesterday and it was the first time I put on shoes since March 12th and I remember saying it felt so weird. And so, yes. And finally, one last good memory, talk about this photo here, one of my absolute favorites.

That is the power photo we got together. I think Marquessa and Michelle led that we had a CSP mastermind. We all went outside and stood like heroes and rock stars and took our photos and blocked traffic.

Yes. So, I absolutely love that photo. I think that’s just great memories for us.

Indeed, indeed.

Yes, good stuff. So, enough of sharing that. Let’s talk now about what we’re here to talk about today. You said there’s no success without leadership. So, what I’d love to understand is your leadership journey.

Sure, absolutely. And I’ll give a summary of it. Then you’re welcome to unpack this as best you can but the nutshell of it is, as you know, Eddie, I’ve started four small companies, not big billion-dollar companies but I have started four companies and I’ve sold two companies. So, I’ve exited, as it were, written multiple books and have been on stages around the world, etc. So, I’ve had some measure of success and I thank god for that. However, only, Eddie, I’ve shared a few, in the last year, two years maybe, could be a little more but I think about two years have I discovered and have been on this journey of what it means to be a leader and that’s been through podcasts like yours, popular books I’ve read, etc. and I’ve realized that, when I say no to success, but, of course, you can have some measure success but especially in business and even in your family, Eddie, if you’re not being a leader, and for me, the simple, I’m the new kid, so I need to learn a lot more, but for me being a leader is two things – are you able to inspire people and are you able to ensure that the right people are doing the right things at the right time, delegating and your team is functioning. That’s really what a leader. You don’t have to be smart but you have to be able to inspire people. So, for me, Eddie, I’ve realized that my business has grown, I’ve been able to think a bit more maturely, even I have a lot more to grow and I’m still figuring it out because I now have the mindset, not of a guy who can use Twitter, not somebody who’s just clicking a button to measure their profit and loss, which is important, not somebody who’s wondering “What graphics should I have my website?” but the element I was missing was being a leader. And that’s why I think your podcast and things you do, Eddie, are so important because that leadership is what I was missing. And I think I had some of it, didn’t know what to call it, but now I have a framework of how to think as being a leader.

Excellent. So, do you have a particular framework that you like to use when you’re operating as a leader?

Sure. I don’t have that dialed in yet. I’m still learning. I’m like a baby leader. So, when I say framework, at least, I’m cognizant of things like this. And don’t laugh at me, Eddie, and anybody who’s listening to this, who’s like a leader and a professional, don’t laugh, things like “Let me have a team meeting. Let me have an agenda. Oh, let me check in with my team, small team, five-six people, see how they’re doing. Okay, it’s been a month now. Let me rethink is this the best thing that Jenny should do?” So, for me, Eddie, when I say leader, that’s what I mean in a simple form like a baby leadership stage, as I’d say, and just learning those things, not just “Did we get people signed up at an event?” which is you know I can do well, “Did I sell sponsorships?” That’s what I do well but I’m doing things like “Am I doing even the right things? Ramon, stop. Should somebody else in your team be doing this?” That’s the kind of thing over the last several months I’ve been more cognizant of and I believe it’s helped me just in my small business.

Wonderful, wonderful. Now, speaking of small business, you have started four businesses and, impressively, not only starting four businesses, you sold two of those businesses but you said something that I found very interesting. You said it’s only recently that you’ve started to feel like you’re a success. Talk about that.

Yeah. So, here’s why I say that. I think part of it, my faith and other things, but I think that as far as the leadership in this discussion, I believe I’ve only realized I’m a success because I think in the past I didn’t realize the potential I had and sometimes I wonder, not like the guy who spilled milk and fretting over it, I don’t have that but just, I think, wistfully “What could I have been better if I was a better leader 20 years ago? What could have happened if I was more purposely leading 10 years ago?” So, that’s kind of why I say I kind of wonder “If I would have known then what I’ve known now, I wonder how things would have been.” So, I’m blessed, I’m happy, I’m grateful all is well. It’s just that’s the kind of thing I think is that where could I have been, what could I have done, how would it have been if I would have been a better leader back then and had some framework on thinking. And that’s why today, as I build Smart Hustle, my fourth company, I do have visions of team and leadership and building it. Maybe I can sell it if I choose one day again but it’ll be even a better company, better managed company, I’ll be less stressed but even maybe be able to do better and bigger things all because of leadership. And, Eddie, as you know, you can have technology, sure, you can do technology but I think the leadership element, that’s really where I think it comes back to some cool things being a leader. It’s beyond technology, beyond tech, beyond speeds and feeds. So, that’s what I think it is.

Beyond technology, beyond tech. Today of all days.

That wasn’t a dig at you, Eddie.

I know. I didn’t take it as such but, yes, yes. So, no matter how much we test and how much we try things but good, we learn and we keep moving.

That’s right.

Now, speaking of Smart Hustle, I absolutely love that name because all of us find ourselves hustling, especially today, right? Given everything that we’re going through, trying to make it happen, trying to be successful either as an entrepreneur outside of organizational structures or as one magazine I read said the ‘Intrapreneurs’, those who have the entrepreneurial mindset inside, made you start Smart Hustle Media?

So, my business before this Eddie, was, SmallBizTechnology.com which is great. It was a blog and I had an event with it and I was just tired, maybe the wrong word but that’s the best English word I can think of right now, tired of being the tech guy. Everybody knew the Tech Evangelist, the small biz tech person. That’s not the moniker I wanted. Take a thing like, let’s say, this pen or something like that. I get press releases “We’re no longer version one of this pen. We’re version two. This pen is now faster.” I was just tired of that. I didn’t want to be the PC Magazine, the C-Net anymore of small business because I find there’s a limit. Now, of course, we’re getting into AI and machine learning but that just wasn’t my space but at the same time, as I was on this journey of being a leader and interviewing entrepreneurs, what I liked was entrepreneurship. So, that’s why, I think it’s four years ago, five years, I forgot the time, when I first started Smart Hustle but I bought the domain, and that’s a story in itself, paid some good money for it and I said “Let me launch a magazine, a print magazine, and compete with other magazines.” So, that vision, I did print some issues, didn’t happen quite as I wanted, Eddie, but I must say, today, Smart Hustle is an online event company, SmartHustle.com. I do live online events. I’ve done several in-person events. And I have a good book of sponsors who sponsor the things that we do at Smart Hustle and, of course, as a speaker. So, that’s why I started it, Eddie, because I just wanted to move out of that tech space and being the tech guy and speeds and feeds, reviewing keyboards and printers and mice. It’s good, it’s a need but I just got tired of it. And right now I think I found my journey and I think the world of entrepreneurship is so broad and I have much more joy to interview Smart Hustlers, other people, and find out about their journey, whether very small ones or people like Damon John or Sarah Blakely or whoever it may be. So, that’s why I launched Smart Hustle and I’m pretty happy about it.

Excellent, excellent. I love it. It’s great. You have interviewed some really big names.We’ll have more right after this.

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I want to talk about also something that I forgot to mention, my good friend Marcia Reynolds, my friend and my coach. I think every great coach needs a great coach and she’s the number one female coach in the world. I meant to show her book, I didn’t get that ready, but Coach the Person, Not the Problem. That comes out tomorrow, folks, tomorrow June 2, 2020. So, head over to Amazon.com and pick up Coach the Person, Not the Problem, a great book for coaches but also a grate book for leaders.

And, finally, we are on Keep Leading LIVE™ but what I want you to know, of course, is to head over to, if you’re listening to this broadcast and you have an Apple iPhone or an Apple device, it’s very helpful if you head over to the podcast section and give us a LIKE and if you would be so kind give us a star-rating and a review if you enjoy what you’re hearing on the Keep Leading!® Podcast. And if you want to get the details of the show, today’s show was Tasha Eurich. She’s an organizational psychologist and bestselling NEW YORK TIMES author. And so, what you’ll get on the actual Keep Leading!® Podcast page, KeepLeadingPodcast.com or KeepcLeaningLIVE.com is you get every episode. So, you get the videos that go with the episode, you get the transcript and you get the links. So, if an author has a book, such as Tasha, you have all of that in one spot. So, we want you to be able to go and get those resources.

Okay. So, before we took the break, we were talking about your leadership journey. And when we’re talking about your leadership journey and the businesses you’ve started, all things you’ve done, there are some other very impressive things you’ve done and I want to talk about this.

Sure.

You’re great at not just starting businesses and helping entrepreneurs but you’re great at branding. And you’re so good at branding, I understand the White House calls you and asks you to work with folks on branding and give advice. Can you tell us about that?

Sure. I mean, listen, the White House calls me every morning just for my advice on how to run a country.Why are you laughing, Eddie? That’s not nice.

These are White House, UN, Congress, these are just esteemed things, politics totally aside, but it was an honor. I think what happened was that through the content, through online content, they were looking for something, and this is at the time when President Obama was in office, I think right before, I forgot the year but whatever, 2015-16, meaning when they weren’t sure whether they’d be in office the next year, and they said “Ramon, some of our staff are here. We’re looking to build our personal brands, whether we’re in office or out.” So, I went there to the White House and gave a three-hour seminar on it. I went to the, I think, the White House the Executive Office of the President. I’ll never forget the letter that came in to me. So, that was one.

And then, Eddie, the second thing is, as you noted that happened was when Congress invited me. And, again, that was through a relationship that I had. I was just saying “How can I serve? How can I help? What do you need?” and it so happened because this is dated now, so I’ll say it, I think Marcus Lemonis, the Profit, was scheduled to appear and be on this panel. In fact, JJ Ramberg was one of the people on the panel as well, who you mentioned. And he couldn’t make it. And lo and behold, they’re like “Hey, Ramon, the billionaire TV show host Marcus Lemonis can’t come. Could you come to new jersey? Maybe you could show up.” So, I did. And those are some acts of distinction that I was really happy to have but, yes, branding’s my jam, Eddie. I love it. It’s something I’m passionate about. As you’re passion about leadership, for me, it’s all about the personal brand. And I think that that was an honor to be known that I was in the White House teaching staff about personal branding. That was really cool.

That is an honor, absolutely. And I understand that your White House honors didn’t end there that later on a certain president asked for your advice.

That is correct. That is correct. I don’t know if I’ll word it that way but I’ll take that. And that happened beforehand. President Barack Obama, at the beginning of his term, I interviewed him on his first live video chat. And that was interesting, Eddie. That was just an experience. And I have it kind of saved as a loop – “Hello, Ramon”, “Hello, Ramon”, “Hello, Ramon”, “Hello, Ramon”, which is cool. It’s the most powerful man, woman, hopefully one day, leader in the free world, interviewing him. So, that was a cool market distinction. A lot of hoops to go through, how that happened even, 300,000 people applied, several interviews I had to go through, rearrange my whole living room because this was, whenever that would have been over, 10 years ago or something like this, when he was first in office but that still goes back to personal branding because I had to go through the interviews, I had to go through the voting and the picking you and selecting you and whittling it up to the top, top, top, top, top.

Excellent. Well, that’s pretty awesome. And then I heard you say something that at was pretty interesting. You said to ask for a smile, not a sale when you’re working in business.

Yes.

Talk about that.

Absolutely. And I think that, as you know, Eddie, as I said, my journey has been on leadership, I’m happy to learn on that but I think, this going back to beyond leadership, I think, sales is fundamentally most important. If you cannot make a sale, you do not have a business. So, I find that many leaders, Eddie, they focus on the selling, selling, selling. Let’s take these iPod things that we use here – Eddie, can you buy it? Eddie, can you buy it? Eddie, can you buy it?” That leaves you with a binary answer – yes or no – but if instead, I say “Hey, I’m Ramon. I like to listen to jazz music through my headphones. Do you too?” Eddie says “Yes”, he’s in my funnel, he’s a friend now or “Hey, you know what, I like to clean my ears once a day. Do you?”, whatever and that’s where you’re asking for the smile just to connect and be a friend and build my fan base, build my funnel because at first you’re just trying to make money, that’s for sale. That’s fleeting, that goes and comes but if you’re my friend first, if I can know, like and trust you as John Jantsch says, a great book Duct Tape Marketing, another marketer, says all the time, that I think is the most powerful experience because I think too often business owners are a bit shortsighted and they’re so focused on the sale, they’re not focused on building the community. And I’m guessing, Eddie, turning back to leadership, is that I wonder if that happens with leadership. I don’t know but imagine you’re so focused on getting Jenny to perform, getting Jenny to turn that widget or do that, I wonder if you didn’t take enough time to know how’s her mom doing, to know is Jenny even doing the right thing in your company. So, I see some parallels though. Sometimes we want short-term gains at the risk of long-term rewards.

Very nice, very nice. Thank you, Ramon.Ramon, something else that you’ve talked about a lot is community building. And so, when you talk about both this branding component, the entrepreneurship, when we talk about leadership, it really goes nicely with this concept of community building. Talk about that a little bit, if you would, please.

Yeah, sure. I’ll talk about it a little bit in the context of leadership which is more your specialty but I’ll give it what, I think, it may mean to be helpful and then I’ll turn it to the branding. So, I think, as a leader, you can lead, and those who are listening who are experts, you know this, I’m talking as a pup, as a baby here, but I think that as a leader, you can lead, be the boss by dominance – “You must do this. I’m going to withhold your check. You’re not going to get a raise.” That’s one way to get somebody to do what you want but how much better is it that when you the boss, the leader coming to the office, people feel great. They don’t feel that when you leave the room, they got to take a shower. When you call them to the office, they don’t feel like “Oh no, why?” So, I think, my point is that aspect of building community, let’s take another example, Eddie, let’s talk about selling pocket knife here. The best companies in the world, big brands and small brands, instead of me trying to sell this knife, let me get all the hunters together to talk, let me get all the people in the kitchen who like to cut meat or whatever it is, vegetables, together to talk. So, my point being this aspect of community building, I think, is very important because you’ll find that if you build a community, if you build a tribe as Seth Godin talks about, if you build a fan base, Gary Vaynerchuk and others talk about these sometimes, I think, that’s much more sustainable, Eddie. That locks you in. Many people around this time, as we’re doing this talk and this discussion, COVID and other things are happening, Eddie, they’re worried about staying in business but “Should I lower my price or not?”, things like this. In good times especially, a strong community, it goes far.One more thing I’ll say is Peter Luger, the famous restaurant in New York area, I think, they’re only in New York, Steakhouse, I was listening to the vice president talk, Eddie, and he was saying that even though times are tough, they’re getting back to business slowly because they have a strong loyal fan base. So, if you’re selling something just transactionally, just based on money, it’s okay, you’ll make some money there but how much better because Eddie Turner’s buying it because he’s a raving fan, he’ll take his shirt off and wait to buy your product.

I think I’ll leave it on for now but I get your pointAnd so, we’re moving toward our wrap-up here but if you have any questions for Ramon Ray, go ahead and drop it into the chat box. Let us know that you’re here, if you’ve tuned in. Hit the like button if you would like to let other people know you like what you hear and let us know what you like what you’re hearing. And share with your friends, hit the share button so that it goes to their network as well.

By the way, we talked about your work in the White House and interviewing President Obama, which is so cool, but you do both sides of the aisle. You also interviewed someone else.

That’s right. That was very fun. Trump and Ivanka Trump. That was a good opportunity with her. I applied to attend the Global Entrepreneurship Summit and this is a worldwide global event where you have different delegations from around the world come. And usually our highest executive, as it were, was part of that, whether it happened to be the President, it could be a Secretary of State or others. And this term, I think, that would have been two years ago or so, I believe, it was is when Ivanka Trump led the delegation for the United States. So, lo and behold, I get a letter from the State Department saying “Ramon, you’re invited to attend the global Entrepreneurship Summit and join Ivanka Trump’s delegation.” Now, did I go on Air Force One? Was I able to be in her plane? No. however, I have a selfie with Ivanka Trump when she was on stage. So, that was pretty cool but, again, Eddie, in this personal branding rubric, it’s about these small things that add credibility, that adds some cash to what you do and not in a negative. This world is competitive. So, that was really cool to be in India and have Indian food 10 days straight, forgot how long I was there, but really to be with Ivanka Trump and Modi was there. Modi tried to call me several times and get my insight and have dinner with him but I couldn’t arrange that but it was a good opportunity to see that in action.

I take my hat off to you. You’ve definitely interviewed some of the best and I love the fact, even at the highest levels of government, you’ve done both sides of the aisle and that’s something that I wish we all could say. So, kudos to you.I appreciate you being here, man. It’s been so enjoyable talking to you. What is the overall message you want to leave our listeners with who are listening today?

Yeah, I’d say a few things. I think, on the marketing side, listen, build your fan base, build your community. Sales is important but build a fan base first. I think as a leader, as a young pup in leadership, I would say that there are so many people out there that are building businesses, that are struggling along because the flash and bling of marketing of “How do I use Facebook? How do we live stream? How do I use twitter?” is out there, which is important. Me and Eddie are in this game, right? We’re doing this now but I tell you leaders keep saying what you’re saying because that message of leadership is so important and most small businesses don’t know about leadership. We’re just not taught it natively. The bling is there. How to do twitter retargeting? We all know that. How to build your funnel? Billions of books on that but I think the big corporations know leadership. Elon or others, whoever it is, they’re hiring these people but us smaller guys and gals, we don’t. So, keep what you’re doing. Leadership is everything.

Wonderful. And speaking of leadership being everything, this is Keep Leading LIVE™, a part of the Keep Leading!® Podcast series. We’d like to get your favorite piece of advice you’ve ever had as a leader or your favorite leadership quote to help our leaders keep leading.

Listen, for me, I think a couple come to mind. One, life is a journey. I think that’s one. I think, being humble. I think that Churchill, man, that was like you could drop science going through the toughest of times. So, those are a few things that come to mind for me – Churchill, like him, and I probably could think of others as well – but you said one, so I think I’ve said 75 by now. Sorry about that.

I’ll take it. Where can my listeners learn more about you?

Yeah, absolutely, RamonRay.com, SmartHustle.com. And if those don’t work, check out Eddie Turner as well.

So, Ramon, we’re going to put locations into the show notes so that when folks are listening to this, because this goes out two ways, this is the live broadcast, this will live on these three locations, but then in a couple of months or so, I’m going to release this as a regular podcast episode, so folks will have this on their devices, you’ll have a page on the Keep Leading LIVE™ site as well as KeepLeadingPodcast.com and folks will be able to get more information about you there.Thank you for being a guest on Keep Leading LIVE™.

You’re welcome. Thanks for everything you do. Appreciate it.

I appreciate that.And I want to say thank you to you for listening. That concludes this episode, everyone, but I do want to remind you or invite you to come on back and join me for the next episode at our normal day which is Mondays, so Monday, June 1st at 1:10 p.m. Central Standard Time. My special guest will be another New Yorker. This will be the chief financial officer and she’s a New York technology pioneer. She’s amazing Beth Polish. Come back on Monday and hang out with me and Beth Polish here on these same channels.

I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. As Ramon said, leadership is everything but leadership is activity, it’s action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.