Jane Hyun
Jane helps Senior Leaders increase People & Business Innovation by unlocking ideas through her Cultural Fluency Framework
Leadership Toolkit for Asians
Episode Summary
Jane Hyun is on a mission to help leaders build cultural fluency in leadership. She is a global leadership strategist and the leading authority on leveraging culture and diversity to drive business growth and innovation. She has assisted leaders in navigating change in high-stakes business environments and enhancing their agility in the workplace. To that end, she has authored books and worked to empower Asian Americans to develop their leadership and influence skills by embracing their cultural strengths and mapping an achievable career path.
In her new book, “Leadership Toolkit for Asians: The Definitive Resource Guide for Breaking the Bamboo Ceiling,” Jane provides insights to help Asian leaders successfully navigate and thrive in their workplace.
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Bio
Often referred to as an “interpreter,” Jane Hyun is a global leadership strategist and a leading authority on leveraging culture and diversity to drive business growth and innovation.
As a trusted coach for global Fortune 500 companies, she is internationally recognized as an expert in cross-cultural effectiveness, inclusive leadership, and talent engagement.
Over the past 20 years, she has assisted leaders in navigating change within high-stakes business environments and enhancing their agility in the workplace. Jane is the recipient of the Marshall Goldsmith 50 Leading Global Coaches Award as the #1 Coach for Cultural Fluency. On April 30, 2024, she released her third book, “Leadership Toolkit for Asians: The Definitive Resource Guide for Breaking the Bamboo Ceiling.” Jane is the best-selling author of Breaking the Bamboo Ceiling and a co-author of FLEX – The New Playbook for Managing Across Differences.
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Jane Hyun’s Book
https://bit.ly/3ASfpxD
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Transcript
Eddie Turner:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Keep Leading Live. I’m your host, Eddie Turner, the Leadership Accelerator. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, masterful facilitation, and professional keynote speeches. The Keep Leading podcast is dedicated to leadership development and insights. Today, we’re broadcasting live on LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube.
If you are excited about what we’re going to talk about today as much as I am, I invite you to hit that share button so that people in your network can join and be a part of the conversation. And if not, they can watch the recording as soon as it’s completed. If you have questions or if you like what you’re hearing, drop us a comment. Ask that question live so that you can be a part of this discussion. We welcome having you here with us.
And if you’re not already following my guest on social media today, please do so. She’s a phenomenal woman who we all can learn much from. My guest today is Jane Hyun. Jane helps senior leaders increase people and business innovation by unlocking ideas through her cultural fluency framework. And I invited Jane on the show today because here on the Keep Leading podcast, we’re always looking for different aspects of leadership so that we can keep leading. And in this context, diversity, diversity of thought, and how we can be more inclusive of those in the world around us, and that includes helping them to be effective leaders and doing what we can to recognize them in our organizations in positions of leadership.
To help us understand a little bit about Jane and her mission to help leaders build what she calls cultural fluency, she is a global leadership strategist who has written several books. One of them was a definitive guide for breaking, sorry, this—the new book is the Leadership Toolkit for Asians, the definitive resource guide for breaking the bamboo ceiling. But she’s also the author of the best-selling book Flex, the new playbook for managing across differences. Jane, welcome to the Keep Leading podcast.
Jane Hyun:
Hi, Eddie. It’s great to be here with you and everyone joining the call. I’m just so excited about, you know, sharing some of these concepts with you and getting to know you.
Eddie Turner:
Well, I’m excited to have you and we’ve been talking for a little while. You were kind enough to send me a copy of your book, which I have behind me. And for those of you, I would be remiss if I didn’t say if you haven’t had a chance to pick up a copy of the Leadership Toolkit for Asians that Jane has produced, get your copy now. You won’t be disappointed. This book has done so well, in fact, that it has been recognized as, Business Insider reported on this, the Wall Street Journal said this is one of the top 35 books to read on your summer vacation.
Jane Hyun:
You got that picture.
Eddie Turner:
I got that.
Jane Hyun:
Yeah. I didn’t expect that. I honestly didn’t expect the topic to be, you know, what bankers and investors would be reading on vacation, but hey, I’ll take it.
Eddie Turner:
I think that’s phenomenal and I think it speaks to the importance of exactly what we’re talking about, why this matters. And the fact that it matters so much that one of the highest sources says, put this on your reading list even when you’re at the beach. So I love this image. Is that you in the picture?
Jane Hyun:
It is. It is.
Eddie Turner:
It is you. Okay. I love that photo.
Jane Hyun:
Yeah. You know, what I got from that was and also, you know, private messages that I heard was, you know, people like to read business books even on vacation because they don’t have time to read when they’re working. So when they get away for the weekend or take a vacation, that’s when they take these books they’ve been wanting to read for a while. So, you know, I thought that was great, you know, whether you take a novel or you take a business book, you know, leadership book, whatever can help you and help you develop, I think that’s a good thing.
Eddie Turner:
It is a good thing indeed. So just want to stress that this isn’t just something that I’m saying is a good book. People far more important than me say it’s a good book. In fact, you have so many wonderful testimonials. I’m going to grab this really quick. This comes to my mind that when I first grabbed it, that was the first thing that crossed my mind. I’m always interested in what others have said about a book that an author produced. You’ve got some of the biggest names in the business in this book. But here’s just one that comes to mind that I love. Gert Jan Hofstede, if I’m pronouncing that correctly, from the Netherlands says, if you are an Asian American or you work with them, read this book. She has learned the hard way and is here to smooth in your path. Her soul is in it. And she goes on to say a few other things in addition to saying what she recommends. So tell us why you wrote the book.
Jane Hyun:
Yeah. You know, I wrote the book because I had been doing this work around building cultural fluency and closing some of the talent gaps for Asian professionals for the past 20 years. And so when my first book came out, Breaking the Bamboo Ceiling, I had started to do this work with companies, identify the unique challenges that Asian Americans faced, and it’s taken me around the world, you know, with global companies. And so I just felt like, you know, with everything that’s been going on in the world and what the community has encountered during the pandemic, it was time to share some of the insights from that and also share with them some of the new tools and insights that I have gained from working individually with hundreds and thousands of Asian Americans and Asians throughout the world, but also with companies and what strategies we had to use to help them engage more effectively, which I think, you know, it sort of showed me the importance of cultural fluency, right? The importance of how everyone needs to lead with this kind of adaptive quality where we’re able to see the differences in a deep way in others that we work with, and then think about how do we bridge the gaps, right? How do we start to recognize those differences deeply enough in a way that we are thinking, how do I meet that person where they are? You know, versus use my own approach or stick with my own ways in doing things.
Eddie Turner:
And you mentioned your extensive experience working in major organizations around the world, but then also with this unique demographic, was there something in your experience specifically that was an aha moment that made you say, I’ve got to do this?
Jane Hyun:
Yeah, you know, I think my life journey, my experiences where I’ve been where I’ve grew out of, it really has informed my work as a consultant, as a coach, that has really defined that, right? And so, you know, my life and my career has been a bit of a circuitous path. And when I think about it, I’m an interculturalist, right? I help organizations develop leaders, but I use intercultural methods. And what I basically do is I help to kind of reconcile diverse viewpoints that exist between people one-on-one, in teams, and across the organization. And I feel like it’s so needed more than ever, you know, now. My personal story was that I grew up in South Korea. I don’t know if you knew that, Eddie.
Eddie Turner:
I did not know that.
Jane Hyun:
Yeah, I came to the US when I was eight years old. So I came from kind of this monocultural familiar environment, right? When I grew up in Korea, there was really nobody else that I saw that didn’t look like me, right? And then I kind of moved to the US and I had to learn a lot of new ways of doing things. And when you’re a student growing up in South Korea in that system, right? There’s a system of things that are going on where respecting the teacher is extremely important, where you ask too many questions and you’re considered disrespectful and you could even be punished. You know, I saw that, right? I saw a different dynamic going on and I didn’t think that there was anything that was different out of it. So, you know, going from Korea to riding the subways, right? Going to New York City where I went from monocultural to multicultural, six months after I started attending third grade, I saw that difference right away, right? That was kind of my own cross-cultural experience. And I remember the boy sitting next to me blurting out something. I don’t even remember exactly how he said it. He didn’t even raise his hand. And then he proceeded to say something about, you know, disagreeing with my teacher and he had his own thought. And that would never happen in Korea, right? That would just not be tolerated.
But what surprised me most and what really kind of was my turning point of sorts, she said that she wanted him to share his opinion. She wanted him to share a different point of view because she wanted the kids in the class to learn how to speak up and share their opinions. So for me, that was really mind-blowing, right? Like it was a—you know, those times in your life where the foundations of how you think you need to be and how you need to be successful, they’re sort of turned upside down. That was one of those transformative times. And of course, that wasn’t the only time that it happened, right? Because I realized becoming more culturally fluent, learning new behaviors is a lifelong journey actually. I’ve continued to do that. You know, when I was a teenager, I went through times when I resented some of this, why do I have to have this Korean culture, right? You know, I kind of be like some other folks, you know? And I had to go through that in order to come to a healthy place with, you know, this is actually good, right? There’s negative and positive aspects of the country of origin that I come from, but there’s also a lot that I’ve learned being in the US, being in this urban environment and navigating here as well. And then of course, as you know, corporate America, right? Like that’s in itself a whole culture, you know, cultural difference, right?
Eddie Turner:
It really is.
Jane Hyun:
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, as leaders, we bring our life experiences to the work we do and I don’t care what you do, whether you’re a banker, you’re in marketing, you’re in operations, finance, you know, where you’re socialized and how you have been trained from your family, from your communities, that does show up in how we lead and work with others. And so cultural fluency is really helping people to understand what that looks like and really digging into that to see how we can be authentic as possible in the way we influence and work with others. So that’s my long-winded answer to your question, but I felt like it was helpful for you to hear a little bit of my personal story because it does very much play a role in the way that I work and the way that I work with others as well as my hopes and dreams for the people that I work with.
Eddie Turner:
It really is helpful and I appreciate you sharing that and especially when you made the point about moving from monocultural to multicultural.
Eddie Turner:
That is very insightful and if a person’s been born in America that they may not really fully comprehend because so many of us sometimes live in pockets where you only see people that look like you. But if you come from an inner city or a big city like I did, you were always surrounded by other nationalities and it’s just something I’ve always known. So I can certainly appreciate that.
Eddie Turner:
Is that something that you believe creates a unique need for Asians to have their own toolkit?
Jane Hyun:
Yeah, I do think so. I do think so. I think most of the Asian Americans that I meet inside organizations, you know, they have—whether they’ve been raised in the US in very diverse communities or perhaps not so much. Maybe they were the only Asian in their neighborhood, which is also common as well. What I thought was important in the book—and they’re concepts obviously not just for Asians, right? There’s probably 80% of the book that can actually be consumed by anyone who’s working in a diverse and multicultural organization, which I think is most people. But I think there are certain things in there that are very specific to their experience. So for example, I have a section in the book to identify the model minority myth, which is a common stereotype that Asians are afflicted with, which says that Asians are these docile, successful people that never face any barriers. But as we all know, that’s not necessarily the case. And what the danger of that is is that you might not think about them as having these challenges or their unique experiences are not really valued in the way they should be. So, you know, checklists like that to help them understand, is this something that you encounter in your own organization, and perhaps in yourself, how do you see that surface in your workplace, in your community, in your neighborhood, in your schools, and what impact does that have? Are Asian employees considered in conversations when you’re thinking about talent development and succession planning? What are some things to think about?
So it’s things that are common when you’re not part of the dominant culture that I thought would be helpful to understand. And then particularly there’s some culturally specific things for Asians to look at—for example, the whole question of being authentic in your leadership. If you come from a culture that is very different, it’s not going to be as easy to do that. And so I provide some guidelines for how do you create your own leadership model or approach that might be more reflective of what you would like to be versus just trying to fit into, right? Kind of force fit your way into a kind of this square peg in a round hole sort of thing. Yeah. So those are some very specific things that I think are specific to, you know, Asian professionals, but also because we come from a non-dominant culture of we didn’t grow up here, right? And my parents never taught me the ways of corporate America. I had to sort of figure that out. I’m still figuring it out every day, and how do we navigate the dominant culture, non-dominant culture dynamics as well as stay true to who we are.
Eddie Turner:
Absolutely. And thank you for sharing that. And that’s why I asked, that’s another reason why I love that quote at the beginning that this is a leadership book that everyone can benefit from as the person I cited said so beautifully from the Netherlands that it’s for Asians, but also for anyone that works with Asians, which is all of us. So I love that. And you’re uniquely providing a voice to people who might not otherwise have had that. And you’re giving that lens as you said that, hey, when you’re not the dominant majority in the workplace, sometimes you’re afraid to speak up or you don’t know who you can ask certain things of. So you’re providing a first-hand answers and a lens from what you’ve gone through that many others have gone through.
Eddie Turner:
And that’s why I was so excited to speak with you because I first kind of got a little bit more insight into this when I was on the Asian American community invited me of all people to be on a panel a couple of years ago.
Jane Hyun:
Oh, that’s great.
Eddie Turner:
And so listening to everyone else, that’s when I learned so much of this. And so, but yeah.
Jane Hyun:
Yeah. And Eddie, I’m so glad you shared that because it’s so important for us to kind of work in these cross-cultural, cross-racial dynamics of, you know, not just kind of hanging out with our community and not just working with people who are not like us. And this goes for everyone, right? Not just me, but, you know, how do we create environments where we can work more effectively and together with people from different backgrounds? Yeah. So I love that you did that and you learned a lot. I’m sure they learned a lot too.
Eddie Turner:
Oh yes, I learned a lot. It was an honor and I was really happy to be there.
Eddie Turner:
Fabulous. I just want to say for anyone who’s listening to our conversation, please feel free to ask any questions of Jane, drop in your feedback about what you’re hearing. Jane helps senior leaders increase people and business innovation by unlocking ideas through her cultural fluency framework. Now, Jane, I’ve used that phrase a couple of times now. Please tell our listeners what you mean when you say cultural fluency and the framework.
Jane Hyun:
Yeah, sure, sure. So cultural fluency is working and engaging very effectively with people who are different from you. And so, when we work with leaders to develop this skill, this capability, we try to remind people that it’s a learning mindset, right? It’s kind of lifelong learners that you’re starting at a place that you are and then you’re growing from there. And so I try to manage expectations of, you know, you’re in for a ride here, right? You’re in for a journey when you’re doing this. You know, if you’re thinking this is going to be a, you know, the top five things that you read on social media, this is not it, you know? We’re going to give you the tools and frameworks and ways of thinking about difference and ways to navigate around difference, but they need to kind of put it into practice, right? Because they’re the ones who have the goals and challenges and objectives that they need to hit at their organizations. And so that’s really what I’d love to see. And I really would love to see this beyond just the workplace. I’d really love to see this in the community, right? In schools, in nonprofit organizations as we’re working with external communities. So I think it makes so much sense whether you’re working to sell or to work to market your services to a community, right? You’re going to need it. Inside when you’re leading teams who are different from you, you’re going to need it. And I think as you’re interacting with friends and family members and meeting new people, it would help to have some level of this as you’re going forward with it. If you want to be really good at working with people who are not like you. You know, if you don’t have to, yeah, no one is, you know, going to come after you and give you the red flag, right? Or the yellow card on the soccer field, right? Like if you don’t, but I can imagine you can be a lot more effective and you will do a lot better and you will be more innovative and more productive if you will try to do that.
Eddie Turner:
Indeed. And that’s something you spend a lot of time talking about toward the end of the book about this need to have a community and that especially it’s important to have that community in times of crisis.
Jane Hyun:
Mhm. Mhm. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I think I was—you mean as far as the Asian community or just having community in general?
Eddie Turner:
Well, you actually talk about both. Either lens that you want to take is fine.
Jane Hyun:
Yeah, yeah. So I was thinking that having community around us, I think was absolutely needed during the pandemic. I think we all have kind of come out of that. We’re hoping that it won’t happen to the degree that it has ever again. But I do remember, you know, going virtual and not having access to people right away. And I was in New York, so we were kind of shut in. You know, we couldn’t really take the subways and buses and we were really just kind of in our apartments, right? And so we realized like our neighbors are really important to us, you know? And I’m telling you in New York, we don’t necessarily know our neighbors. It’s not like you talk to—
Jane Hyun:
—you know, I didn’t know our neighbors, you know? And so it was beautiful to see that we were able to spend more time together, that I was able to go upstairs to a friend and neighbor upstairs to, you know, share ingredients that we needed for something we were cooking, take walks outside with them in different ways. So I think the power of community really became alive to me and now these relationships are formed so that, you know, even after the pandemic, we have them and they’ve been so much more enriching for our lives. So I just really saw the power of that come to life very recently through that.
Eddie Turner:
Beautiful. Are there any people—when I think about community and family and friends, are there any people in your life who’ve had a transformational impact on you and the work that you’re doing?
Jane Hyun:
Yeah, I would have to say my parents, but I would say especially my dad. He was what I call like the original Renaissance man. You know, the dictionary says a Renaissance man is a man of many talents or has a lot of different areas of knowledge and that was really true of him. He was a great singer, he was great in athletics, he ran marathons and even public speaking, right? He was just really, really good. And this was all in Korea, right? Because when he came here, he wasn’t as able to do a lot of that. So he was kind of also the original girl dad, you know? Like he really was. And you know, he had two daughters during a time when people would ask him, when will you have another one? Because at that point when the time that he was in Korea, you had to produce a son, right? And so, you know, that was the question that he got asked by family and friends and others, right? Because this is sort of like this is what you need to do. You got to produce a son. But my dad never cared about that. And he always told me that we could be whatever we wanted to be. He never put limitations on me. So I never felt that I had barriers. Obviously, I dealt with barriers throughout my life and throughout my career, but at least at home, I knew that he was behind us 100% and that he was supportive of everything that we did. This was not typical of a Korean man of his generation. So I would say his love and belief in me was the engine that really fueled me for much of my career. And he just passed away this year. So even in his passing, I often draw upon the lessons that he taught me and the conviction that we can be who we wanted to be despite the barriers as well. So there’s something powerful and I know you’re a father as well. There’s something powerful when someone that close to you believes in you and tells you that you can do it, right? And that unconditional love that comes and acceptance that comes from that. And I would say that was probably a really strong influencer in my life.
Eddie Turner:
What a powerful story. I’m sorry to hear that you lost your dad, but it sounds like he just left an indelible mark on you and your sister and I’m sure many, many others and he was truly a Renaissance man ahead of his time. What a beautiful thing to tell us about your father.
Jane Hyun:
He really was. He was a good man and I hope that we’ll have more good men that come out of this. Yes.
Eddie Turner:
Beautiful. And I’m sure that he would be so proud of you and the work you’ve accomplished and especially this new book.
Jane Hyun:
Thank you so much, Eddie.
Eddie Turner:
What is a success story you can give us about someone who’s applied this framework and they’ve written you and said, oh Jane, thank you so much for what you did with me and teaching me this.
Jane Hyun:
Yeah, yeah. We’ve been coaching and doing workshops for this topic for a number of years now. I would say I was doing a workshop just a few years ago with a sales leader and she had managed a very diverse team and she kind of knew that there were some cultural differences and she had some people who are working in other offices too. So it wasn’t just US. It was definitely a multicultural global team. But I don’t think she really understood the impact of culture on how they interacted with her and the expectations that they would have of how to work with her. And, you know, she very much always felt like, you know, hey, I’ve got an open door policy. I want people to challenge my thinking to make me better. And that was something she I think had communicated. Like she had verbalized that in some ways. But she had people working for her in some of the Asian offices and then also in the US as well that came from more high power distance cultures, that, you know, when she said that, you know, I think it sort of went in, right? But the concept of disagreeing with your boss and offering—I mean it’s hard in almost every background, but particularly if you come from a high power distance culture and it like the one I grew up in, right? And having to disagree and offer an alternative idea was not something they were used to, was not easy for them to do. And so she had seen this, but she didn’t really know what—she couldn’t put her arms around it. She just thought they were just more quiet. But I think when we started to talk about these issues and when we started to talk about the dimensions of culture and her own expectations, I think some of the work of cultural fluency requires you to go into your own cultural awareness and I think sometimes people forget that. You know, they expect, okay, to be culturally competent.
Eddie Turner:
A little bit of an inside-out approach.
Jane Hyun:
A little bit of the inside-out approach. Exactly. Like they often think like, well, they need to do whatever to come to me, right? But I think in this situation, I think there’s a lot that leaders can do to meet others where they are. Particularly if they do have expectations that value one way of being, right? How can we open that up so that you see that there are a lot of different ways to be effective and then are there other ways you can get this feedback? So, before, during, and after a meeting, right? That there is trying to do this for you. So, I would say after some of these workshops and we did some one-on-one work too, she came over to me and she actually—we had a conversation. These were the days when we did a lot of one-on-ones in person too. She said like, you know, I really learned so much from being more culturally self-aware, you know, about my own lens and the biases that I have. And I realized even if I do one small thing, it can really help my team members who are less vocal in these situations engage better in those meetings. And so that was just one thing that I would share with you that it really helped to have the leader come to that awakening. Because it, you know, helped everyone, you know? It helped others in the team work better together, and she was able to understand a little bit more deeply how to engage and motivate the other person.
Eddie Turner:
What a phenomenal story. Congratulations on your success with that.
Jane Hyun:
Oh, thank you, Eddie. Yeah, yeah. We can only—we see, right? We’re just always—we’re telling, you know? Yeah.
Eddie Turner:
One leader at a time.
Jane Hyun:
One leader at a time. One leader at a time.
Eddie Turner:
What’s the main message you’d like to leave our listeners who have spent time listening to us today?
Jane Hyun:
Yeah, you know, I would say, you know, your values, right? Your cultural values have shaped you and in very significant ways. You know, that’s why uncovering that influence is so important. I think it’s important that we are intentional about that, clarify our goals, and determine what skills you need to get there. And I think overall, you know, it’s about being a lifelong learner. You know, I think the more leaders and colleagues, no matter what their level is, the more they can be open and curious and adopt that attitude of curiosity, they’re going to be more effective, you know, with the people that they work with. For sure. Yeah.
Eddie Turner:
Thank you.
Eddie Turner:
Is there a quote that you use that helps you to keep leading?
Jane Hyun:
Yeah, yeah. So I love this quote by Nelson Mandela. I have many quotes that I love. And you’ll read some of them in the book, but what he said was, if you speak to a man in the language he understands, that goes to his head. If you speak to him in his language, that will go to his heart. I think for that—that really speaks to me in so many ways in the work we do, because if you look deep enough, if you’re willing to go and develop that relationship in a way that you understand what that is, you’re going to go so far and the relationships will be that much more strong.
Eddie Turner:
Jane Hyun, thank you for being a guest with me today on the Keep Leading Live podcast. And I want to encourage people to visit hyunassociates.com to learn more about you, your work, to get a copy of your current book and even your past books and to continue to connect with you on social media so they can learn from you and the great work you’re doing.
Jane Hyun:
Thank you so much, Eddie. It was so wonderful to be with you. Thank you.
Eddie Turner:
It was my pleasure and my honor to have you. Thank you again, Jane.
Eddie Turner:
That concludes this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, the Leadership Accelerator, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is about action. Leadership is an activity. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.
Jane Hyun:
Fantastic. Fantastic.