Amii Barnard-Bahn
Former Fortune Global 50 Executive and Author of the Promotability Index®
How to Develop Promotable Leaders
Episode Summary
On Episode 115 of the Keep Leading!® podcast, I explored what makes a leader promotable and defines an ethical workplace with former Fortune Global 50 executive Amii Barnard-Bahn!
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Bio
A former Fortune Global 50 executive, Amii Barnard-Bahn is a coach, author, and speaker that accelerates the success of C-suite leaders and their teams. Forbes has recognized her as one of the world’s leading coaches for legal and compliance professionals. Clients include Adobe, The Gap, Bank of the West, and The Nature Conservancy. A contributor to Harvard Business Review and Fast Company, Amii is a Fellow at the Harvard Institute of Coaching and a guest lecturer at Stanford and UC Berkeley. A lifelong diversity advocate, Amii testified for passage of the first laws in the U.S. requiring corporate boards to include women. She lives in Sacramento with her husband and two teenage daughters. Download her free Promotability Index® career assessment at http://bit.ly/AskAmii
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Transcript
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This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.
Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to promoting leadership development and sharing leadership insights. Here’s your host, The Leadership Excelerator®, Eddie Turner.
Eddie Turner:
Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, masterful facilitation, and motivational speaking.The Keep Leading!® Podcast, as I say in my introduction, is about leadership development. Today, however, I want to discuss how we develop leaders but more specifically promotable leaders. Here to discuss developing promotable leaders is Amii Barnard-Bah. Amii is a former Fortune Global 50 executive, a coach, an author, and a speaker. Amii has been recognized by Forbes as one of the leading coaches for legal and compliance professionals. For this and many reasons you’ll discover throughout our conversation, I’m simply thrilled to have Amii here on the Keep Leading!® Podcast with me.
Amii, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Thank you, Eddie. I am so excited to be here with you today.
Eddie Turner:
Amii, please tell us more about your professional background and your current consulting business.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Absolutely. Well, Eddie, I spent about 20 years working in Fortune Global 50 organizations and I worked my way up to senior executive roles such as Chief Compliance Officer, Chief Administrative Officer, and Chief Human Resources Officer. And in the C-suite, as you probably know, the best way to be a revered leader and successfully drive business strategy is to build healthy workplace cultures. And so, in my leadership roles, I always hired an executive coach to support my work and I know the exponential benefits that I leveraged in an executive coaching partnership. And so, when I founded my leadership and coaching consultancy, I founded it around a mission to help organizations create those healthy workplace cultures by supporting executives and their teams in overcoming blind spots, effectively serving their stakeholders, and reaching their full leadership potential. My goal, as I think yours probably is with your clients, is to make leadership more effortless and ultimately help people lead happier lives. And to do this in a way where employees thrive, leaders really need to progress to a higher level of performance and teams must be engaged and motivated to do their best work.
Eddie Turner:
Amii, obviously, as an executive coach, I’m excited to hear you say what you just said. I didn’t know you were going to say that, obviously. So, I have to ask a little bit more about that because I am so impressed with your career, which is one of the reasons I invited you to be a guest. Your recognition of the role executive coaching played for you, just tell us a little bit more about that.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Yeah. I would say, Eddie, when I had my first executive role is when I realized “Okay, I really need to level up and I need a safe space to do that.” I was lucky I had a supportive boss, I had a great executive team and I was working with some really smart incredibly strategic people. And I knew that I wouldn’t always know what I didn’t know, right? And I knew the worst thing you can have, in my opinion, as a leader is, well, a few things but one thing is blind spots because they can just kill you. They can just sneak up on you. And the best thing you can do as a leader is just see around corners and try to shrink what you don’t know about yourself, about how you’re showing up, about your impact, the impact of your behavior on other people. And getting a coach, to me, is number one way to do that because you can’t do it on your own.
Eddie Turner:
Yes. And so much so you’re saying that you realized that not just as a corporate employee but as a new business owner that you would need an executive coach.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Well, I was talking about when I was an executive but I also, yes, have hired coaches as a business owner, entrepreneur as well. I just think no one person can know everything. When I was in corporate, sometimes I was fortunate and my company offered me executive coaching as a perk but when they didn’t, I paid for it myself. For me, Eddie, I can say I considered it an investment in my career. I love learning, I’m very curious and I just love having people that challenge me that are smarter than me about different things and makes me smarter to be around them. And so, I’ve just always surrounded myself with kind of being on board of directors, if you will. And if it doesn’t happen naturally, I make it happen.
Eddie Turner:
Wow! I simply love hearing what you said and it’s so true, Amii. Now, you went from using executive coaches to becoming a renowned coach yourself because that’s how you and I met. I neglected to say you are a member of the esteemed Marshall Goldsmith’s MG100 family.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
I am and I am so lucky to meet such amazing people like you.
Eddie Turner:
Well, it’s very kind of you to say. I feel very fortunate to have met you and I simply enjoy the contribution that you make to our MG100 family and seeing you on our Monday morning calls and the value that you bring is just excellent.Now, you advise organizations on how they can create ethical workplaces is something that I read about you and what you’re doing. And that struck me because if I asked, 9 out of 10 employees would say “Of course we have an ethical workplace. What do you mean?” So, what is an ethical workplace?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Well, to me, an ethical workplace is a place where, and I’m talking about the employees right now, but there’s tone at the top, strong leadership that supports doing the right thing but doing the right thing is thrown around a lot, right? So, let’s break that down a little bit. So, doing the right thing means, to me, three things. Number one, employees know what’s expected of them. Number two, they know where to go when they have a question or a concern. And critically and most importantly, number three, they feel comfortable coming forward if they have a concern around illegal or unethical behavior. And that’s so important in a speaking-up culture. So, for me, an ethical culture is a company that serves its three main stakeholder groups which are its investors, its community in which it does business, and its employees and they strive to comply with laws and regulations but they also strive to be ethical and to see around corners because laws don’t take care of everything, you can’t have a rule and a policy for everything. I know that as a former head of HR, it’s pointless. And you don’t want to be finger wagging at people all the time. You want to inspire them to think about what could be the negative impact on the community that we do business in or what could be the negative impact on our employees around supply chain disruption, around a furlough, how do we keep our good people, all of that. So, to me, that’s an ethical workplace. There are people who are showing really all together a good faith effort, of course supported by leadership to do the right thing.
Eddie Turner:
Wonderful. And this is part of the work you’re doing as a consultant but as we said in the intro, you were a Fortune 50 executive. How did you make the switch from the C-suite to consulting?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
I had such a great ride, Eddie. I got to bounce around a little more than even a lot of other people. I was a general counsel, I’ve been a Chief Human Resources Officer, I’ve been a Compliance Officer, and then I’ve been a CIO overseeing IT and Marketing and Communications and a whole bunch of functions. And so, I felt like I had really had the opportunity to drive strategy from multiple levels and I really loved the independence that I thought that it has brought me, coaching and consulting, because I also love to write. I’m also an advocate. I’ve been an advocate for the Women on Boards Movement and for corporate diversity. And there are just some things that, as a corporate executive, you may run into conflicts of interest with. As an executive, I took it very seriously. I was the Chief Compliance Officer for a Fortune 5 company at McKesson and when you’re an executive, you are the company. Everything you say, everything you do, in my opinion, if you’re doing it right, reflects on the company. And that was wonderful for 20 years but then I wanted to do some other things. So, that meant going independent.
Eddie Turner:
Okay. And as you have gone independent, you’ve done a lot of work around what it takes to make promotable leaders. So, can you share with us what makes a leader promotable?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Sure. I studied this for a while and then, of course, having done everything, Eddie, from hiring and firing and doing succession planning in RIFs and high growth industries, all the work that I did in organizations, sitting through talent meetings for 20 years and just seeing who got promoted and who didn’t led me to focus on five key elements of promotability. And those are the things that decision makers really evaluate around performance when considering who they’re going to promote as high-potential leaders.
Eddie Turner:
Can you list the five for us?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Absolutely. So, they are self-awareness. Second is external awareness. The third is strategic thinking. The fourth is executive presence. And the fifth is thought leadership.
Eddie Turner:
I love those. I think we could do an episode, seriously. I think we could do an episode on each of the five
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Oh, we could, easily. There’s tons and I could talk for days about it, especially after writing this book. I created an assessment that’s free to anyone, 82 questions, and thousands of people have taken it and I’ve gotten such wonderful thoughts. My goal, Eddie, is … As we started our conversation around reduced blind spots, so for anyone starting out, whether they’re already in the C-suite and they’re looking at a corporate board or if they’re starting out and it’s their first job, these questions are helpful because they raise awareness of what people should be thinking about if they want, what I would call, a self-authoring career where they’re in the driver’s seat, they’re responsible for their own development. Sometimes you’re lucky enough to get a company that’s going to help you and you get an amazing boss that’s also a mentor but you and I both know that doesn’t always happen, right?
Eddie Turner:
Far too often it’s not the case.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Right. And so, my goal is to put tools in front of people that either help leaders and organizations do a better job with that and, by the way, that also create objective criteria which may be something that we can talk about as well because that gets to fairness and diversity and inclusion but also helps them just be more thoughtful about who they’re promoting and why and enables and gives a common language for employees bottom up to have these conversations with their boss.
Eddie Turner:
Excellent. Please tell us those five again as well as where we can find them.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Sure. So, the Promotability Index Assessment, you can get a copy for free by texting the word ‘promoteme’, all one word, to 44222. It’s 82 questions. It’s just yes or no. It’s super fun. I’m actually migrating it to mobile as well. So, that’ll be happening in the next few weeks when the book launches. And it goes into self-awareness.
Eddie Turner:
Is that the name of the book as well, Amii?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Oh yeah, the Promotability Index Assessment, the Pi Guidebook is the book. So, with the assessment plus the book, you’ve basically got an amazing leadership toolkit for under 25 bucks. So, my goal is to make this affordable to everyone and to organizations because I do a lot of workshops and speaking engagements around it and I’ve been helping out some mentor programs as well as employee resource groups.
Eddie Turner:
Wonderful. And the five areas again were?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Yes. So, Self-Awareness, External Awareness, Strategic Thinking, Executive Presence, and Thought Leadership.
Eddie Turner:
Wonderful. So, these five keys make a leader promotable, helps them to develop. Again, I think we’re going to have to do something where I can get you to do another episode, we break those down. Speaking of promotability, you alluded to something earlier. Women are often left behind when it comes to receiving promotions in organizations. Do you mind telling our listeners what you specifically have done to help women around this area of promotability?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Sure. I would say, number one, I coach some amazing women and some fantastic men as well. And men are great allies. We need them. And I would say one thing that comes up often in my coaching in the C-suite, I think, what I find, you can think about leadership with a different lens which is the balance of assertiveness with approachability and what research has shown is that those two qualities are critical for all people, men and women, but there can be a likability penalty for women if they don’t lean in a little bit more at the right time to approachability versus assertiveness versus men who can get away with, Eddie, a little bit more leaning into their assertiveness and being a little lighter on their approachability.
Eddie Turner:
Indeed. And there’s something else significant you’ve done to help women’s promotability as it relates to a bill that was passed.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Yes, thank you. I had the privilege of testifying for the first laws in the united states to require women to sit on corporate boards. And you’d wish that we didn’t need a law, Eddie. You’d wish that it wasn’t necessary but in California, we tried a Pretty Please resolution which is a non-binding legislative resolution and nothing happened for two years, the numbers didn’t move at all. It was like 16% of corporate board seats in the state of California for publicly traded companies were held by women, 16%. And we’ve got over 55% of MBA graduates and all kinds of other data showing us that it’s not a pipeline problem. It’s an access problem.
Eddie Turner:
Yes.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
And here’s a unique way, and of course underrepresented, people of color are also completely underrepresented as well. So, it’s not just women. And so, what we wanted to do with this bill which is a mandatory bill in California and it’s been in place now for about a year and a half and now, I’m very happy to say that we actually exceeded our goal. Originally, we had a 20% goal for 2020 and we met it early and now in California we’re at about 22%.
Eddie Turner:
Fantastic.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
It’s better, right? And I wrote an article for Harvard Business Review actually around pay inequality and how companies can implement procedures around addressing pay as well for women and people of color and make sure that those are equitable. So, I just like opening doors and figuring out a practical pathway to what I personally hope and believe companies would want. And that is, again, empowering all employees to do their best work because that’s the competitive advantage companies have.
Eddie Turner:
Wonderful.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
It’s not the product. It’s the people, at the end of the day. Anyone can copy your product if you wait long enough, right? It’s the people.
Eddie Turner:
Yes, absolutely. Well, thank you, Amii.I’m enjoying my conversation with Amii Barnard-Bah. She’s an attorney. She is a speaker, an author, a former Fortune 50 global executive. You can see her work in the Harvard Business Review, Forbes, the San Francisco Chronicle, NBC affiliates, and other national business publications. We’ll have more with Amii right after this as we continue our discussion about how to develop promotable leaders.
This podcast is sponsored by Eddie Turner LLC. Organizations who need to accelerate the development of their leaders call Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. Eddie works with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact. Call Eddie Turner to help your leaders one on one as their coach or to inspire them as a group through the power of facilitation or a keynote address. Visit EddieTurnerLLC.com to learn more.
This is Lou Diamond from Thrive Loud with Lou Diamond and you’re listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.
Eddie Turner:
We’re back, everyone. I’m talking to Amii Barnard-Bah. She’s an attorney, an author, a speaker and a former Fortune 50 global executive. We’re talking about how to develop promotable leaders.Amii, fascinating discussion before the break and I loved the key points that you’ve shared with us and the index you’ve created. It sounds like you are just doing some incredible things out here and I would love to know what are the big projects you’re working on right now.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Thanks, Eddie. Well, I am working on what I realized was the second half to the assessment that we mentioned earlier. The Promotability Index was a great assessment tool for people but as I conducted a lot of workshops and worked last year, we were all in confinement virtually, people asked for more. And so, then, I realized I needed to write a guidebook around the index. So, that’s coming out later this month.
Eddie Turner:
Okay.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
It’ll be called the PI Guidebook. And together with the assessment, you’ve got a really powerful toolkit.
Eddie Turner:
A little bit of a one-two punch, huh?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Yeah, I like about it is I tried to create something that I would enjoy and that appeals to everyone. It’s kind of a choose-your-own-adventure type of a guidebook. You can pick which of the five elements you’d like to work on. You can talk to your boss about it. The most powerful discussions, Eddie, I found are when teams do this together. And I’ve done some mentoring workshops and other things for folks because it provides a common language for discussions and career succession planning with your manager. And then for leaders who find it challenging and difficult to have these conversations, which they can be, having been in that role, it’s really helpful if you can objectively say, okay, to get promoted, you would need to get better at presentations, you need to get more concise in your speaking or you don’t realize how you’re showing up and actually you need to invest more in your relationships, your external awareness and some of your stakeholders, right? So, this gives you that kind of a checklist to work on and potentially have that discussion with your boss. And if you don’t have a boss you feel comfortable with, you can go it alone or of course you can get a coach but at least it gets you something in your hands that gives you over 30 exercises. The guidebook is very practical. It walks you through creating your own self-development plan. And, again, it has over 30 exercises to create that plan based on where you are and what you want to work on. And so, the assessment helps you assess where you are and then you take those results and then you use the guidebook to develop where you’re either told you need to develop or where you feel you need to.
Eddie Turner:
Well, this is interesting. As you are working with people on the promotability index and you’re having the workshops and now they’ll have the book coming out, what have you found to be one of the elements about promotability that people simply just keep underestimating?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
The one, Eddie, that people underestimate the most is external awareness. And I’ve divided awareness into two different types. They’re interrelated and they overlap and they’re self-reinforcing their self-awareness which to me is knowing your what, how, and why like “What are my gifts? Why do I do what I do? What’s my mission?” External awareness is equally important but it’s around “How is my behavior impacting others? Am I aware of how I show up in the world? Is my message getting across? Am I executing in a way that enables me to reach those goals and to fulfill my mission?” And so, what I find is that as a coach, and you may find this as well, is that people underestimate how they’re showing up. They may make some assumptions and they may not check in enough. And I actually just wrote a Harvard article about this, which is called Promotions Aren’t Just About Your Skills. They’re About Your Relationships.
Eddie Turner:
I was wondering where I read that and I shared that.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Oh, you did. Thank you. I remember that. You and I both know that promotions aren’t always fair and they’re not always rational. So, when it comes down to promotions, your skills and knowledge and abilities are usually just a ticket to the game. And, of course, you need to be good at what you do but it’s really the relationships and working with other people that get you that promotion. So, that’s why it’s really important to invest in those and learn what impact your behavior has on others and secondly, how you’re perceived which is often, I would describe it as experiences over time.
Eddie Turner:
Okay. I like that. Now, I’m thinking about what you said and I realized something, Amii. I’m an assessment guy too.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Yeah, I bet you are.
Eddie Turner:
There’s tons of them out there.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Yes, we could drown in them.
Eddie Turner:
At a certain point, you said “I don’t care about all of the assessors that are out here. None of them are hitting the sweet spot. I’m going to make my own.” So, number one, kudos to you for having the ability, the thought process to make your own but what made it necessary?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
I didn’t see anything out there that dealt with the reality of how promotions are given and that focus people in the right areas. There are many assessments that I use with my clients that are exceptional. So, this is not a criticism of the existing amazing psychometric assessments that are out there but mine is also just a facially valid way of thinking about how companies truly behave and act and what’s important. And it’s super user friendly. I made it free for everyone even though, as you can imagine, it was a huge investment for me to create it but it’s just 82 questions, yes or no. And it’s up to you what you do with it. And I do have some coaches who love using it with their clients, which has been really fun to hear and very rewarding. And the way that I worded the questions, Eddie, is also that when you when I ask the questions, they can raise awareness in and of themselves. So, I tried to combine awareness raising along with action and inspiration at the same time, if that makes sense. And so, just simply asking a question, you know how powerful that can be as a coach, right? Asking the right question of ourselves at the right time, that can just be life-changing and in terms of how we’re framing our life, how we’re looking at executing what our priorities are, where we’re spending our attention, the one precious gift that we have. and so, I created the assessment because I didn’t see anything like it. It’s not a personality test. It’s not a conflict resolution instrument. It’s just if you want to think about how other people think about getting ahead, that’s really what it’s for.
Eddie Turner:
Wonderful. Do you have a success story you can share with us?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Yes, I am happy to share one particular one that stands out that is very meaningful to me. One client that I was coaching is exceptionally brilliant and executed her job perfectly from a technical standpoint and she was supported by her boss for his role because he was retiring and he was in the C-suite. She’d worked at this company for 10 years and had worked for also all the other major startups, successful tech startups in Silicon Valley. So, she has exceptional credentials. And when the CEO informally went around and said “Hey, if I put this person up to replace so and so who’s leaving, would you support it?”, which is what happens, as you know. There’s these informal conversations that people check up on you, how are you perceived, do people want to work with you, do they want you on the C-suite because once you’re in that room, you spend a lot of time together just like being on a corporate board, right? You’ve got to know those people have your back, you got to all be working together, especially under crisis. And he got some no’s back that “No, I wouldn’t want to work with this person. They’re too aggressive. My team hates working with them. My team comes to me to try to avoid directly talking to them.” So, this person didn’t realize it but they were creating a long shadow, is what I would say, for themselves and creating work for other executives that they weren’t aware of. So, I was brought in and worked with this person. And one of the interesting bits of feedback I got was that the team loved this person. It was peers and people above that didn’t. And this person fiercely protected their team. They were warm, kind, they were a great mentor. So, I knew they were coachable. And what I found is they just had not realized that it wasn’t all about technical skills. It’s really back to that other question around the awareness. They worked on it. They realized they could lean in and relax a little and be more personable and that they weren’t going to be able to get their work done if they weren’t working as peers in a respectful way with other people. And after about six months, they got the promotion and that was very, very gratifying.
Eddie Turner:
That has to be. Fantastic. Yeah, so many times individuals don’t fully appreciate that it’s not about their technical prowess. It’s those soft skills that are derailing their careers. So, thank you for sharing this success story with us.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Sure.
Eddie Turner:
Amii, what’s the main message you’d like to make sure our listeners walk away from our conversation today with?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
For me, it would be really own your self-development. Consider it a continuous learning opportunity for the rest of your life and know that careers aren’t linear. Even from my own, if I drew it on a map, Eddie, it would look like a zigzag with some spirals or something. I think when we’re young, we think “Okay, I’m going to go to college, I’m going to work hard, I’m going to get a great job, I’m going to continue to work really hard, I’m going to know everything I need to know about what I need to do and it’s just a straight line.” And I think if anything this past year has proven, that’s not the case. And so, my hope is to inspire and motivate people to number one, not feel bad about that if they were hit hard in the pandemic and number two, help them focus on what they can control. And we can always learn more, we can always be open to feedback, we can really own a lot that will help us continue learning and have fulfilling lives and that’s really my goal.
Eddie Turner:
Thank you. And on the Keep Leading!® Podcast, I always like to know is there a quote or a piece of advice that you live by that helps you to keep leading?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Gosh, there are several. I love the quote by Peter Drucker that says “You should not change yourself but create yourself.” That means build around your strengths and removing bad habits.
Eddie Turner:
I like that. Thank you for sharing that. That’s a great quote for sure for leaders everywhere to keep leading.Amii, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed my conversation with you. Where can my listeners learn more about you?
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Thank you, Eddie. They can please feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn and just mark in the comments that you’re a friend of Eddie’s, that you’ve been listening to his podcast so I know who you are. And then you can go to my website which is BarnardBah.com and you can download my free Promotability Index Assessment if you’re curious about where you stack up by texting the word ‘promoteme’ to 44222. And you can also visit on my website. And I’m also in all the places. I’m on Instagram and I’m on Twitter but I really like LinkedIn the best.
Eddie Turner:
Wonderful. Well, we’re going to put all this in the show notes so people can reach out to you, Amii, follow you, connect with you and certainly take the Promotable Index Assessment to see how they stack up as a promotable leader. Thank you for being a guest.
Amii Barnard-Bah:
Oh, thank you so much for having me. It’s been my pleasure.
Eddie Turner:
And thank you for listening. That concludes this episode, everyone. I Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our position or our title. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.
Thank you for listening to your host Eddie Turner on the Keep Leading!® Podcast. Please remember to subscribe to the Keep Leading!® Podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen. For more information about Eddie Turner’s work, please visit EddieTurnerLLC.com.
Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.
The Keep Leading!® podcast is for people passionate about leadership. It is dedicated to leadership development and insights. Join your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator® as he speaks with accomplished leaders and people of influence across the globe as they share their journey to leadership excellence. Listen as they share leadership strategies, techniques and insights. For more information visit eddieturnerllc.com or follow Eddie Turner on Twitter and Instagram at @eddieturnerjr. Like Eddie Turner LLC on Facebook. Connect with Eddie Turner on LinkedIn.