Jennifer Goldman-Wetzler, Ph.D.
CEO, Executive Coach, and Author of Optimal Outcomes
Handling Conflict as a Leader
Episode Summary
Conflict is part of our lives. As leaders, it can derail our success at work and Home. In this episode, Dr. Jen Goldman-Wetzler explains how to deal with conflict more effectively and achieve conflict resolution or conflict freedom.
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Bio
Dr. Jennifer Goldman-Wetzler is the founder and CEO of Alignment Strategies Group, the New York consulting firm that helps CEOs and their executive teams optimize organizational health and growth.
In the corporate arena, Jennifer advises innovative technology, healthcare, financial, and professional services companies. She has served clients including CSC, IBM, Intel, athenahealth, Novartis, Oscar Health Insurance, Roche, Barclays, GE Capital, Moody’s, Cornerstone Research, Lexis Nexis, Navigant, and KPMG.
In the public sector, she enables teams to optimize organizational impact at Jazz at Lincoln Center, the New York City Economic Development Corporation, The New School, and Oxfam America.
She is the author of OPTIMAL OUTCOMES: Free Yourself from Conflict at Work, at Home, and in Life (HarperBusiness, 2020), selected as a Financial Times Book of the Month.
She is a keynote speaker at Fortune 500 companies, public institutions, and leading startups, including Google, Harvard Law School, and the United Nations. A former counterterrorism fellow with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, she earned her Ph.D. in Social-Organizational Psychology from Columbia University and has taught conflict freedom at Columbia for a decade.
Website
https://jengoldmanwetzler.com/
Other Website
http://alignmentstrategiesgroup.com/
LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jen-goldman-wetzler/
Twitter
https://twitter.com/JGoldmanWetzler
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/jgoldmanwetzler
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/jgoldmanwetzler/
Optimal Outcomes Assessments
https://jengoldmanwetzler.com/optimal-outcomes-assessments/
Leadership Quote
“Prevention is the best medicine.” – Dr. Morton Deutsch, widely considered the father of conflict resolution and one of my mentors
Get Your Copy of Jennifer’s Book!
https://jengoldmanwetzler.com/the-book/
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Transcript
The key to sustainable leadership lies in the ability to thrive during uncertainty, ambiguity, and change. Grand Heron International brings you the Coaching Assistance Program, giving your employees on-demand coaching to manage through a challenging situation and arrive at a solution. Visit GrandHeronInternational.Ca/Podcast to learn more.
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Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to promoting leadership development and sharing leadership insights. Here’s your host, The Leadership Excelerator®, Eddie Turner.
Eddie Turner:
Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, masterful facilitation, and motivational speaking.
Conflict. It’s a part of all of our lives. As leaders, it can derail our success at work and at home. How can we deal with conflict more effectively? How can we achieve conflict resolution or conflict freedom? Here to answer that important question is a conflict expert. My guest today is Dr. Jen Goldman-Wetzler. Dr. Jennifer Goldman-Wetzler is an award-winning conflict consultant who, through her book Optimal Outcomes: Free Yourself from Conflict at Work, at Home and In Life, offers a new path to take when agreement and collaboration seem impossible. And this is an amazing book that has received rave reviews from some of the highest authorities in business and academia and it was selected as the book of the month by Financial Times.
Jennifer, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.
Dr. Jennifer:
Thank you so much, Eddie. Thanks for having me.
Eddie Turner:
I’m so excited to have you here, Jennifer. I’ve read your book. Thank you for sending me an advanced copy. And I’ve read what other people have said about it. Tell us a little bit about yourself before we get into your book.
Dr. Jennifer:
I am an organizational psychologist and I lead a company called Alignment Strategies Group where we help CEOs and their teams to deal with conflict and collaborate more effectively and talk across lines of difference. My background is in Social Psychology. I have a PhD in Organizational Psychology with a specialty in intractable conflict. And my PhD was funded by the US Department of Homeland Security as I had a fellowship with them all five years of my work. And I’ve been in this business for a long, long time, working with clients in all different sectors from government to start-up to non-profit and corporate and love working with leaders and love talking to people like you.
Eddie Turner:
Fascinating. And something else I found interesting about you, especially when we’re going to talk about conflict, you’ve done a little work with the United Nations, Harvard Law School, Google and you mentioned the Department of Homeland Security but you also did some kind of terrorism work, you were a fellow.
Dr. Jennifer:
Yes, a research fellow.
Eddie Turner:
All fascinating. You say it as if “Oh, it’s just Tuesday.” Jennifer, this is a big deal.
Dr. Jennifer:
Thank you for pointing that out. I appreciate that very much. When it’s part of your life, you don’t think about it that way but yes, it was a tremendous time. I mean, I was at the US Department of Homeland Security as a research fellow in 2002 until 2007. I did a couple of internships. So, I was not there full time but all of my research was on how the emotion of humiliation drives conflict and kind of applying that to the realm of international terrorism. And so, it was a fascinating time to be there. The department had just been created. There was a really interesting group of people doing Social Science research and that is the group that I was with. They were and I imagine continue to do, although I’m not directly involved these days, but do really important work.
Eddie Turner:
Absolutely. So, it’s not every day that we get a chance to talk to someone about conflict at your level even though we all have conflict every day. Jen, I think we all know what conflict is. We know when we’re interacting with someone and it doesn’t feel right. We know when we’re avoiding someone or maybe in some cases not perhaps treating them the way we should because that conflict is there. Is there a time where conflict is not something that’s bad but it’s actually good for leaders to have in their life?
Dr. Jennifer:
Yes, absolutely. There are times when conflict can be a healthy thing. It can lead to more creativity. On teams, when you have diverse perspectives, it can lead to greater innovation. And as much as we’ve all had experience with conflict that didn’t go well, we’ve probably all experienced sometimes where there was conflict that did turn out okay or even better than okay where we came to a more innovative or creative solution that we couldn’t have come to otherwise. The thing that I like to help people do is to distinguish between when is it healthy, when is this conflict healthy and helping us get to those more innovative creative solutions and then when is it destructive and when is it kind of in between but where’s that line, when is it not helpful, when is it not productive. And it’s the part where we get into “This is not productive. Either I’m going around and around in circles and not getting the answers that I need or we’re not coming up with the solutions that we thought we were going to or I feel like I’m banging my head up against the wall trying to get someone to do something else that they are simply resisting and not doing” or there’s kind of conflict under the surface that’s bubbling up every now and again and then dying down and then bubbling up and at some point, I know it’s likely to explode and I don’t want to see that happen and I don’t know what to do about that. Those are the kinds of situations that concern me the most and that I tend to be most helpful to people about, about dealing with that, about how do you free yourself from those kinds of situations.
Eddie Turner:
You just described perhaps half of the individuals I’m working with as an executive coach dealing with their fellow co-workers or their leaders in their organizations and perhaps some people who I know in relationships. So, how do they handle that?
Dr. Jennifer:
Well, the first thing to do before you can do anything about a situation that isn’t going well for you is to simply stop and pause and notice what is going on. So, one easy way that I like to help people do that is that there are four conflict habits that we tend to get ourselves stuck in. We tend to use these in a habitual way and they keep us stuck in conflict. And there’s actually a really simple easy seven-minute free quiz that people could take online if they’re interested at OptimalOutcomesBook.com/assessment and it’s called the Conflict Habits Quiz. There are two different quizzes at that site.
Eddie Turner:
We’ll make a note of that and put that in the link for folks to take that.
Dr. Jennifer:
Great. So, the four conflict habits are basically, we either blame other people, some of us blame and shame ourselves, some of us shut down in the face of recurring conflict. So, we avoid, avoid, avoid like I was describing before until typically something explodes and we don’t know what to do about it. So, we shut down in the face of conflict. And then others of us, somewhat counterintuitively, we relentlessly seek to collaborate with other people and yet we’re not getting anywhere. We’re sinking time, energy, money, resources into trying to achieve a “win-win” solution with someone else who’s just not playing along with us, they’re not cooperating back with us. So, each of these four habits can be useful and can lead to healthy conflict outcomes like we were talking about before unless we’re using them in such a habitual way that they are the only way we know. And each of us tends to have a default way of operating, which is why I call it your conflict habit. There’s one primary way that each of us tends to from how we learn to be when we were young in our family of origin or what we learned from coaches or teachers or spiritual leaders growing up. We see those models. We learn ways to deal with conflict based on how we grew up and then we do those over and over and over again. And at a certain point, like those executives that you were talking about a few moments ago, it just gets in our way. And so, the question is what can we do to put a break and interrupt those habitual patterns so that we can do something different. And that’s the first step is really to notice “Which one of these conflict habits do I tend to use?” And then the second thing is to ask ourselves “Well, what else could I do that would break that habitual response?”
Eddie Turner:
That’s really true. I can tell you about some people that I work with and they’ve described how they saw certain behaviors demonstrated in their family, certain behaviors demonstrated in their religious community and perhaps they find themselves conflict avoidant. They’re not a person that’s violent or dangerous. They just get silent and they just walk away from conflict. And that’s their default mode. They don’t know any other way of handling it. And you’re saying they should be able to examine that, come to grips with that’s who they are and now, “How is that working for you? Here’s something else you can try.” And you give an outline of this and you give stories in your book.
Dr. Jennifer:
Yes, right, absolutely. I mean, avoidance is also an interesting one because it can seem like “Well, I’m not in conflict. I’m just not [inaudible][11:07] at all” but I think sometimes those of us who habitually avoid conflict, we don’t see our part in it or if we do, we only see our side of it, which is that you know there’s radio silence, there’s nothing going on but actually for the other person or people involved, it can be incredibly challenging for them to know what to do when they may not share our habit.
Eddie Turner:
After all being quiet and silent means I’m being peaceful, right?
Dr. Jennifer:
Right, exactly. That’s a real misunderstanding of your own contribution. It could be a misunderstanding of your own contribution to the situation. This idea of contribution was popularized by the book Difficult Conversations in 1999. So, it’s been around for a long time but this idea that it takes two to tango, it’s usually not one person’s 100% responsibility and the other person is 0% but more like a mixture and it can be really helpful to ask ourselves “What is my contribution here?” So, I like to talk about the habits as they interact with each other and they form a pattern of interaction that keeps us stuck on what I call this conflict loop. So, if you feel like you’re going around and around and around and not getting anywhere, that’s how you know that you’re stuck. So, you could have one person who has a blame conflict habit interacting with someone else who also has a blame conflict habit and they’re blaming, blaming, blaming, blaming sometimes until finally one or the other of them shuts down and kind of goes away but that’s a blame-blame cycle versus a different kind of cycle could be a relentlessly collaborate-shutdown where one person is constantly kind of pursuing the other trying to collaborate, get the other person say “Here’s the options. What do you think? Here’s what I could do for you. Here’s what I could recommend” and the other person just kind of running away or avoiding, avoiding, avoiding. So, that’s a different example of a conflict loop.
Eddie Turner:
Thank you. To resolve this, many people say “I need conflict resolution skills.” So, they take a program or they read a book but you introduce something in your book I’ve not heard of before and you have a concept you call Conflict Freedom.
Dr. Jennifer:
Yes. And that is because my experience over the last 40 years with the idea of conflict resolution is that it just simply doesn’t always work. So, I came up through the field of conflict and negotiation studying at the program on Negotiation at Harvard Law School, out of which came the book Getting To Yes which is an international bestseller, it continues to be incredibly helpful to people all over the world in business and government, all kinds of settings, personal settings. And that book really lays out a very clear and incredibly helpful way of seeking to resolve conflicts and create principled negotiation or win-win negotiation outcomes. The problem is that it just doesn’t always work. And I know that from my own experience what you described before. Maybe you know it also from your own experience working with leaders and organizations. And also, if we look at the international realm, there are some situations like, for example, in the Middle East that despite some recent wins that we’ve had where countries have made diplomatic agreements that nobody thought was possible even a couple of years ago, I remember when I was first getting into this work in the mid-‘90s, the Oslo Peace Accords looked like they were going well and then all of a sudden completely literally blew up. And so, that was the context in which I said “There has to be something that we can offer people when these win-win methodologies don’t work.” And that is what conflict freedom is all about. It’s all about saying when you notice that you’re stuck on that conflict loop going around and around, your job is to stop, notice where you are, notice what habits are involved and what the pattern is that you’re stuck in with other people and then map out a way out and at core really asking yourself “What could I do that would be different from what I’ve done before?” And I describe that as pattern breaking action – “How could I take pattern breaking action in this case, action that would be completely different, it would be surprising, it would be simple and it would be a series of actions to help get us out of that conflict loop towards an optimal outcome?”
Eddie Turner:
What’s an example of one of those actions I can take if I find myself in this situation? I have identified it and here I am.
Dr. Jennifer:
Well, let’s just say, for example, that you’ve identified that your conflict habit is relentlessly collaborate. So, you’ve been offering option after option and asking the other person or people involved how you can help you and them come to an agreement and you’re not getting any response, like I described before. You’re relentlessly collaborating and they’re in the shutdown. So, that’s your loop with them. So, what’s something different that you could do? You could first of all be more direct. You could try something like “Hey, this is what I need.” That’s a pretty different response or pretty different way of interacting than saying “Here’s another option. Here’s another option we could try.” This is just “Hey, this is what I need.”
Eddie Turner:
So, instead of another option, you kind of bottom line it.
Dr. Jennifer:
Yeah, just more direct and about your own needs and caring less about theirs. And then maybe that will help. It’s surprising. It’s something that might surprise them because you’ve been all trying to make it work for them and now, you’re coming at it as “Look, actually, I’m not going to try to make it work for you. This is what I need.” So, doing something more direct. You could also try shutting down yourself for a little while. This is not necessarily an advisable thing to do in all situations but in a situation where someone has been sending you the message “I do not want to talk about this right now,” if it’s a situation where maybe you don’t actually need to come to an agreement right away today or tomorrow. Maybe you could let yourself cool off over a weekend or let it go for a few days and see what might happen. Sometimes, what will happen is the other person will be so surprised, they’ll be like peeking their head out wondering “Where did she go? Where did he go?” like “What happened to him?” So, that’s the thing about the element of surprise being one of the three pieces of pattern breaking action it’s that it can jolt the other person out of their habitual way of responding as well in a good way.
Eddie Turner:
Conflict Freedom. You’ve got to break the pattern and introduce a little bit of an element of surprise there, be a little bit more direct and maybe try to shut down if necessary. Thank you for sharing those two options with us and helping us understand the difference between conflict freedom and conflict resolution. We may not always get a resolution but we can always be free. I love that concept.
Dr. Jennifer:
Eddie, I do just want to clarify. The two ideas that I just threw out there were specific to somebody who’s been relentlessly collaborating. I think that was probably obvious but I do just want to underscore that I wouldn’t have given you those same answers if we were talking about somebody who had already been shut down. Obviously, if you’ve already been shut down, shutting down more is not going to be pattern breaking for you in that case.
Eddie Turner:
The conflict avoiding person, yes.
Dr. Jennifer:
Give the truth with love with care with respect but go and try to have that conversation. That’s going to break the pattern for you.
Eddie Turner:
That’s a very important distinction. Thank you for clarifying that for me so that we don’t leave with the wrong idea.
Dr. Jennifer:
Yes, I don’t want listeners out there going “Oh, she said that the way to free yourself from conflict is to shut down.” No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. It’s to identify what do you normally do and then do something different from what you normally do.
Eddie Turner:
Wonderful. I appreciate that.
We’re talking about how we handle conflict as a leader. We’re talking to Jen Goldman-Wetzler and we will have more with Jen right after this.
This podcast is sponsored by Eddie Turner LLC. Organizations who need to accelerate the development of their leaders call Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. Eddie works with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact. Call Eddie Turner to help your leaders one on one as their coach or to inspire them as a group through the power of facilitation or a keynote address. Visit EddieTurnerLLC.com to learn more.
This is Chester Elton, the Apostle of Appreciation, and you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with the one, the only Eddie Turner.
Eddie Turner:
We’re back everyone. We’re discussing how you and I can handle conflict as a leader. This is important to our careers both at work and at home and we want to be successful. And so, we’re talking with an expert on this, Dr. Jennifer Goldman-Wetzler, an award-winning conflict consultant who, through her book Optimal Outcomes: Free Yourself from Conflict at Work, at Home and in Life, offers a new path to take when agreement and collaboration seem impossible.
Jen, I’m enjoying our discussion and you’ve really shed light on what we can do as leaders but why does this matter?
Dr. Jennifer:
Well, I think, this matters to any leader or manager who has to both directly themselves and also help others deal with conflict in the workplace. When you see people going around and around in circles, this methodology, this framework, and there are eight different practices in the Optimal Outcomes Framework and we’ve only talked about two of them, we’ve talked about noticing the pattern which is the first practice and we’ve talked about one of the later practices which is about identifying what would a pattern breaking set of actions be, creating a pattern breaking path but there are six others as well. So, the real work here is to use these practices to help people get off that conflict loop, stop going around in circles and free themselves.
Eddie Turner:
Do you have an example of how this has worked for these managers that you mentioned in their conflict at work?
Dr. Jennifer:
Yeah, absolutely. So, one situation that I write about in the book that was super difficult and that became much easier and kind of helped enlighten the people that were involved was between a CEO of a design firm, really super smart, flashy, really hyper-talented CEO and his head of Sales and she was also incredibly talented. They were friends in addition to working together and they were stuck on a conflict loop like the one of the ones that we were talking about before, which is that he was a blamer. So, he would blame. Any time that someone did something not the way he expected or wanted them to, he would just go at it and he would yell and just fire coming out of all the different parts of his head. It was not a fun thing to witness for anyone but particularly not for this head of Sales who was a more mild-mannered British person. Her conflict habit was shut down. And so, you can imagine what would happen when they would interact. He would blow up any time he didn’t like something that she did. And what would she do? She would go hide. And sometimes, that would shut down their conversations for days. So, you can imagine how much work got done around the office between them. Not very much. And, of course, this impacted not only the two of them and their relationship but also her entire team of people who reported to her, who would sometimes witness these interactions or lack thereof and it was incredibly destructive in the organization. And so, my work with both of them was to help each of them identify what their own habit was and then to ask them “What could you do differently the next time that happens?” So, it’s not just working with her to help her respond differently and not just working with him to help him respond differently but to be able to work with both of them which I was fortunate enough to be able to do. So, for him, the work was “What will it take when you are upset about something, the way it’s done? What will it take for you to cool your jets and take a deep breath and ask yourself strategically “What is the response I would like to have here, not what is the response that just comes to me and that I just knee-jerk reaction??” And so, that was his work to do and it took some work. This is not like an overnight change but he was able to train himself over time that when he was ready to pick up the phone and yell at somebody, he would put the phone down and train himself to take a walk around the block before he came back and decided what to do.
Eddie Turner:
More of the pattern breaking that you mentioned earlier.
Dr. Jennifer:
Exactly, exactly. So, it can help really to think to yourself “What things do I need to put in place to help me break those patterns?” So, that’s for him. And then for her, really what it was, it was a lot about courage, was learning to say “I might feel like hiding here but I’ve seen how destructive that has been for me, for my team, for my relationship with the CEO. So, I’m going to ask myself to stay strong. And even though it is going to feel so excruciatingly difficult to stay engaged when I would much rather run, I’m going to ask that of myself and I’m going to also put in place things that will help make that easier for me to do.” So, she would have a group of trusted friends around her who she could talk about this with, she had me as her coach who she could talk about this with and really saw it as like building muscles as if she were going to the gym and just every time she would stay in the room. And eventually, she was able to use words and say to him “That is not okay with me when you treat me like that.” And boy, you should have seen the look on his face when she was able to speak those words.
Eddie Turner:
I’m imagining that right now as you say that. What a transformation! And I can imagine how she felt being able to utter those words.
Dr. Jennifer:
Exactly. It’s incredibly empowering. It’s empowering for me to help somebody find those words and find the courage to speak them. And I think it’s also a wonderful learning opportunity and moment for the CEO in this case as well, for him to see, you know what, he can’t continue to go around and treat people this way because the impact is not only on her and on his relationship with her but it also has outward effects in the organization as well and it’s not in his interest to continue acting the way that he is either. And he wanted her to stay. I mean, believe it or not, they had a very long-standing many years’ worth of friendship. And so, he did not want this to be going this way.
Eddie Turner:
I’ve seen that and more by engagement, I care to admit, where, yeah, both people realize they need each other. The senior person may not like that person or have that conflict relationship but they realize this is a top performer, this person’s amazing but sometimes, that leader isn’t willing to adjust their behavior. So, I like that story and I think that many people will benefit from following the skills you’ve outlined, steps you’ve outlined in Optimal Outcomes so that they can make the adjustments.
Dr. Jennifer:
I hope so. And one thing I want to say also about these practices is that they’re designed so that you can do them on your own. So, in the case that I just described, I happened to be coaching both of these people. And so, I could help both of them do this and, of course, do what they needed to do to take pattern-breaking action and, of course, that helps. And I hope you can imagine the situation where, let’s say, I was only working with one of them or only one of them had read the book. That would still be helpful. If only he had cooled his jets, you could imagine that breaks this conflict loop. There’s also an aspect of freeing yourself. That’s why it’s freeing because when you free yourself from the conflict loop, you’re naturally freeing other people as well. She could still be going hiding in a corner but she would have very much less reason to use that habit if he’s not screaming his head off at her every day, right?
Eddie Turner:
Yes.
Dr. Jennifer:
And vice versa. If she built up those muscles he could be screaming like until the cows come home but she will still be standing there and saying “This is not acceptable behavior for me. I’m not going to be in a relationship with someone who yells at me in this way. So, when you’re ready to calm down, let me know.”
Eddie Turner:
Many people miss that idea that if just one person makes a change, the entire relationship can get better or in any of these conflict situations, if it’s just one party who chooses to act different or act at a higher level, it doesn’t have to be both people. In a perfect world, it would be, but we don’t live in a perfect world. In fact, if we had a perfect world where conflicts didn’t exist, then we wouldn’t have Optimal Outcomes as a book.
Dr. Jennifer:
That’s right.
Eddie Turner:
So, since it’s inevitable that we’re always going to have conflict, what is your ideal future?
Dr. Jennifer:
My ideal future is a world in which people develop and practice these practices as a way to learn how to empower ourselves and free ourselves from even the most challenging situations that seem impossible, that seem like we are just going to have to go around and around on this loop forever but actually that we can notice what our habit is, notice what other people’s habits are, notice the pattern we’re stuck in. We can map out the conflict, which we haven’t even talked about yet but we can map out who’s involved, make it more complex than we’ve maybe thought about it in the past and then come to a more leverageable situation that we hadn’t even noticed was happening before where we can look at what are our values and what are our shadow values, what are the things that we really do care about in life but that we would never admit to caring about and also for other people, what might their shadow values be, what’s important to them that they could never even talk about, never admit but that we see are oozing out in ways that they can’t control. How can we work with those? So, these are some of these other practices. So, that’s my ideal world where people see that they can use themselves as instruments to free themselves from situations that seem impossible.
Eddie Turner:
Wonderful. Well, you’ve given us a lot to think about today. The book again is Optimal Outcomes: Free Yourself from Conflict at Work, at Home, and in Life. And it’s easy to understand the subtitle of the book after talking to you because the suggestions you’ve given us absolutely can benefit us not just at work and our professional careers but at home and in every other aspect of our life.
Thank you, Jen, for sitting down and talking with me today.
Dr. Jennifer:
Thank you so much, Eddie. It’s been a real pleasure and I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you.
Eddie Turner:
And if my listeners want to contact you or follow your work, how do they do that?
Dr. Jennifer:
The best way is to go to OptimalOutcomesBook.com and there is a treasure trove of free resources if you go to the Resources page or OptimalOutcomesBook.com/Resources. That’s also where you’ll find the quizzes and there are 10 different PDFs that are worksheets that you can download that correspond to each of the eight different practices in the book along with a couple of extra bonus ones. So, there’s just a lot to play around with there. And then, of course, you can find me on LinkedIn at Jen Goldman Wetzler and also on Facebook and Twitter as well, J. Goldman Wetzler or Jen Goldman Wetzler as well.
And if you reach out to Jen, tell her that you heard about her on the Keep Leading!® Podcast. We’ll put links to her website, her social media sites as well as the assessment that she mentioned. We’ll put all of that in the show notes so that you can reach out to her, contact her, stay connected and follow her incredible work so that you and I can remove conflict from our life and handle conflict better as leaders.
Thank you again, Jen, for being a guest.
That concludes this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.
Thank you for listening to your host Eddie Turner on the Keep Leading!® Podcast. Please remember to subscribe to the Keep Leading!® Podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen. For more information about Eddie Turner’s work, please visit EddieTurnerLLC.com.
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The Keep Leading!® podcast is for people passionate about leadership. It is dedicated to leadership development and insights. Join your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator® as he speaks with accomplished leaders and people of influence across the globe as they share their journey to leadership excellence. Listen as they share leadership strategies, techniques and insights. For more information visit eddieturnerllc.com or follow Eddie Turner on Twitter and Instagram at @eddieturnerjr. Like Eddie Turner LLC on Facebook. Connect with Eddie Turner on LinkedIn.