Charlie Camarda
Astronaut | Author | Innovator | Keynote Speaker | Research Engineer
Epic Challenges and High Performing Teams
Episode Summary
On Episode 129 of the Keep Leading!® podcast, I had the incredible opportunity to interview Dr. Charlie Camarda. He is an Astronaut who explained lessons learned from epic challenges and the power of high performing teams.
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Bio
Dr. Camarda is an astronaut, research engineer, inventor, author, educator, and internationally recognized expert and invited speaker on engineering, engineering design, innovation, safety, organizational behavior, and education. He has over 60 technical publications, holds nine patents, and over 20 national and international awards, including an IR-100 Award for one of the top 100 technological innovations; the NASA Spaceflight Medal, an Exceptional Service Medal; the American Astronautical Society 2006 Flight Achievement Award, and he was inducted into the Air and Space Cradle of Aviation Museum’s Hall of Fame in 2017.
He was selected as an Astronaut Candidate in 1996 and flew as a Mission Specialist on STS-114, NASA’s Return-to-Flight (RTF) mission, immediately following the Columbia disaster. He was responsible for initiating several teams to successfully diagnose the cause of the Columbia tragedy and, in addition, develop an on-orbit, wing leading edge repair capability, which was flown on his RTF mission and all successive Shuttle missions until the retirement of the Space Shuttle Program in 2011.
Dr. Charles Camarda retired from NASA in May 2019, after 45 years of continuous service as a research engineer and technical manager at Langley Research Center (LaRC), an Astronaut and Senior Executive (Director of Engineering) at Johnson Space Center (JSC), and as the Senior Advisor for Innovation and Engineering Development at LaRC.
Dr. Camarda is the Founder/CEO of the Epic Education Foundation, a 501(c)3 corporation seeking to democratize education for learners at all levels. He is also the President of Leading Edge Enterprises LLC, an aerospace engineering and education consultancy.
Website
http://charliecamarda.com/
LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlescamarda/
Twitter
https://twitter.com/CharlieCamarda
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/astrocharliecamarda/
Leadership Quote
“What is needed is an atmosphere, a subtle attitude, an uncompromising insistence on excellence, as well as a healthy pessimism in technical matters, a pessimism which offsets the normal human tendency to expect that everything will come out right and that no accident can be foreseen – and forestalled – before it happens.”
Admiral Hyman Rickover, The Father of the Nuclear Navy
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Transcript
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Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to promoting leadership development and sharing leadership insights. Here’s your host, The Leadership Excelerator®, Eddie Turner.
Eddie Turner:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the
Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, masterful facilitation, and professional speaking.
How can you and I face challenges as leaders. In this episode, we’re going to discuss epic challenges in high-performing teams and we will get the answer to that question by a man who is an absolute expert on both dealing with epic challenges and working on a high-performing team. My guest today is Dr. Charlie Camarda. He is an astronaut, a research engineer, inventor, author, educator, and an internationally recognized expert and invited speaker on subjects related to Engineering, Engineering Design, Innovation, Safety, Organization Behavior, and Education. He has over 60 technical publications that he’s written. He holds nine patents and he has over 20 national and international awards. He was inducted into the Air and Space Cradle of Aviation Museum’s Hall of Fame in 2017. For this and many reasons, I am absolutely excited to have Dr. Charlie Camarda.
Dr. Camarda, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.
Charles Camarda:
Good morning. Nice to meet you, Eddie, and great to be on your show.
Eddie Turner:
It is an absolute honor to meet you and I’m so happy to have you and grateful to our friend Dr. Ruth Gotian for introducing us. And she interviewed you as a part of her book that’s going to be released about high-performing teams. Am I correct?
Charles Camarda:
That’s correct. And, yeah, what else is Ruth doing? She’s doing amazing things. She also writes several Forbes articles. She’s very prolific in in Forbes articles. Her new book is just coming out.
Eddie Turner:
That’s correct. Yeah, she writes for Forbes, Harvard Business Review, she writes for Psychology Today and a bunch of other brand name regularly read publications. And so, she is definitely an authority and recently was recognized as Thinkers 50s’ one of the top leadership thinkers in the world. So, she is clearly someone to know.
Charles Camarda:
Yeah, great lady, great lady. I love her.
Eddie Turner:
Well, you are somebody who I am only used to reading about maybe in in school textbooks and you always look up to the astronauts. I mean, we kind of feel like you walk on water. It’s not every day I get a chance to talk to the astronaut.
Charles Camarda:
Look up literally and figuratively, Eddie? No, no, we’re actually normal people, Eddie, very normal.
Eddie Turner:
That’s just fascinating. Until recently, only a select few people could say that they’ve been to space but that’s changed because a few billionaires have kind of started this program where they can kind of just kind of go up on their own.
Charles Camarda:
Yeah, that’s right. I think in total probably about 600 people have been in space over the years starting in the ‘50s, right? And, hopefully, that’s going to grow exponentially.
Eddie Turner:
Well, tell us about your background before we get into our formal interview. I’d just love to have you share anything that you want our audience to know about you.
Charles Camarda:
I was a street kid, grew up in Queens right on the borderline with Brooklyn, always loved space, grew up during the space race, us against the Russians in the ‘50s and ‘60s. I loved Science, Math, excelled in those subjects in school, was always very, very curious, always asking questions. I had a natural bent towards Engineering. And so, I went into Aerospace Engineering at Brooklyn Polytech and I applied to work at NASA. In between my junior and senior years, I did an internship NASA Langley and that’s when I realized how much I loved research. And so, I wanted to pursue my passion for research. And so, I applied to NASA Langley Research Center, was selected, worked there for about 22 years. I applied to be an astronaut after I was working about three years but I had just a Bachelor of Science degree. And so, I was not selected, waited 18 years, got advanced degrees, got my PhD in Aerospace and Ocean Engineering from Virginia Tech, reapplied when I was 44 and flew in space when I was 53, probably the oldest first-time flyer in the astronaut office. And so, I flew in in 2005 when I was 53 years old, flew on the return to flight mission following the Columbia accident and then I was Director of Engineering at Johnson Space Flight Center and senior advisor for Innovation and Engineering Development at NASA Langley.
Eddie Turner:
Very interesting you said a lot there, Charlie. There are a couple things I’d love to just kind of tease out a bit. The first thing you said is you said “I was just a street kid.” Tell me what you mean by that.
Charles Camarda:
Well, growing up in Queens or Brooklyn in New York in those times, you had to be out, you had to be social, you had to be playing sports with your friends out in the neighborhood parks. And so, it was tough living in both worlds, right? My friends were more physical than I was. I was the geeky kid. And so, being a geek at that time wasn’t as cool as it is today. And so, somehow you had to fit in. So, you had to go in the park, you had the play those sports, you had to play football, handball, basketball, whatever the sport was. And so, it taught me a lot. It taught me a lot about interacting with other people and the importance of having diverse groups of people working together to solve problems and to work on teams.
Eddie Turner:
Excellent. So, there’s hope for street kids today that are listening to this episode.
Charles Camarda:
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. When I was teaching at NYU for about two years and what I loved to do was bring the kids from all parts of the city, of New York, New Jersey together to solve problems. And so, you had kids from all areas. And that’s basically what I teach for students, the importance of diversity and bringing diverse views on solving a problem, understanding a problem.
Eddie Turner:
Now, folks can’t see this but they’ll see it when we promote the teaser episode. There’s this beautiful photo that you sent me of you lecturing in a gymnasium because you are actively reaching out to young people and encouraging them to go into STEM.
Charles Camarda:
Absolutely. I started a non-profit to do just that. I looked at all the different reasons why our education system is failing and why kids are dropping out of STEM. I call it the leaky STEM pipeline. We’re losing 80% of the kids by the seventh grade and 95% of the students we lose by sophomore year in college. And so, it’s very important because it’s important for our country and our economy that we have kids that are very educated in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math because almost everything we touch revolves around technology and it’s an understanding of that. And so, I think it’s very important doing research and why kids drop out of this. And so, that’s why I started the Epic Education Foundation and the Epic Challenge Program.
Eddie Turner:
Thank you for explaining that. And you then said that you recognized that you loved researching. So, you went into research and you tried to apply to become an astronaut and you were turned down but you didn’t let that deter you. You said “I only had a bachelor’s degree. Went back and got advanced degrees” and made your goal when you did become an astronaut and accomplished some very notable had notable accomplishments but tell me a little bit, for a young person or anyone who’s interested in becoming an astronaut, what is the requirement, how does one become an astronaut?
Charles Camarda:
Well, they’re always changing. What types of astronauts do you want? In the very early time or the beginning, the earliest astronauts were mostly selected from test pilot school because those were the people that had certain skills that were necessary to fly the spacecraft and to operate under extreme conditions, multitask, process information and make very quick decisions. When I first applied, it was in 1978, that’s the first time they opened up the astronaut or role for non-test pilots. So, when you think about it, this is the first time we’re going to have engineers, scientists, researchers actually fly in space. And this was the opening up of the Space Shuttle Program. And so, you had what they called not only a commander and a pilot on the spacecraft but you had what they called mission specialists. And so, at that time, they were looking for people mostly with PhDs that had this phenomenal technical background and experience. And I was only three years working at NASA. And what I realized was that I really loved what I was doing at NASA. During those 18 years interim before I reapplied, I really loved what I was doing, I loved science, I loved research. And really when I made the decision to reapply, I made it for two reasons. Yes, I wanted to be an astronaut. I also accomplished a lot in many different fields. I did analysis, I did experimental tests, I was able to do a design. And so, what I wanted to do was actually fly and operate some of the ideas that we were inventing at NASA Langley. The other reason was I was a single parent, I had an 8½-year-old daughter and I wanted her to know that she should not be afraid to try things and failing. And so, I thought what a great idea if my daughter would consent to travel to Texas with me for several years. She could watch her father who was afraid of heights, claustrophobic and couldn’t swim tried to do the impossible and that was becoming an astronaut.
Eddie Turner:
That says a lot. And what an example you set for your daughter and for other young people around the world. Thank you for sharing that. And so, you become an astronaut and you actually make your first flight after one of the most tragic events in space history and that was the Columbia disaster. Can you tell us about the Columbia disaster for those who don’t know or who don’t remember?
Charles Camarda:
What happened during 2003 the launch of STS-107, a large piece of foam came off the external tank and struck the vehicle on the underside of the vehicle. It hit either the fragile thermal protection system, the ceramic tiles or it hit the front leading edge, the front of the wing that’s made out of a ceramic material, composite material called reinforced-carbon carbon. And so, it was a very large piece of foam, almost two pounds, traveling, the relative velocity when it struck the vehicle was about 545 miles an hour. And the people on the ground had to make a decision as to whether or not that foam caused critical damage. This was an area I researched 22 years of my life. It was exactly in hypersonic vehicles, thermal structures and specifically wing leading edges. And I was training in Russia. And when we got the tragic news, we received the tragic news that we lost the crew and we lost the vehicle and we were huddled in our cottage in Star City, Russia, the four US crew members that were training there at the time watching the TV. We saw this large piece of foam come off and hit the vehicle. And I was just infuriated. I was very angry. I watched this foam hit the vehicle and I could not believe that people would have thought that that did not cause critical damage.
Eddie Turner:
Okay. And you know this so well because, as you said, part of the work that you did was you were one of the people that did the research as to what caused that tragedy so it could be ameliorated and not happen again.
Charles Camarda:
That’s correct. I was working on advanced wing leading edges. I knew the people at NASA Langley that were looking at these advanced structures these carbon-carbon materials. I knew how fragile they were. It was a sturdy material but it was only protected by a very thin ceramic coating, about 40,000th of an inch thick, a silicon carbide coating on the outside of that vehicle. You chip that coating and the wing burns up like a piece of charcoal.
Eddie Turner:
So, talk about epic challenges.
Eddie Turner:
And you not only researched what caused it but you were so confident in the fruits of your research and the necessary repairs to make this correct so that it would never happen again that you flew the first flight after all that. Tell us about that.
Charles Camarda:
Yes, I had no clue that I was going to be selected for the next flight but what I did know when I came back from Russia was that my experience was drastically needed at the agency at that time. The people at Johnson Space Flight Center made some very bad mistakes. I knew lots of people around the country at NASA research centers that could help solve this problem and we needed to bring these people together to form the right teams to understand how that foam, when it impacts the vehicle, what kind of damage it could potentially cause and how to repair the vehicle. If the next crew that flies, not knowing it would be me, would be flying, could they carry a repair kit to repair their vehicle?
Eddie Turner:
Yes. And what was the result?
Charles Camarda:
The result was because I was so familiar in how to put these teams together to solve challenges like this because it was my training, it’s what we did at NASA Langley, I put together a very small team of researchers from NASA Langley Glenn Research Center. Then we brought on a couple of folks from Boeing Philadelphia to actually understand the impact dynamics of a large piece of foam hitting the vehicle. The techniques that the researchers used on the ground at Johnson Space Flight Center were very crude. They were not accurate and they totally missed the critical problem. And so, with only three months’ time, these teams working together, mostly geographically dispersed teams, they were able to put together a computer simulation which accurately predicted impact damage and impact performance of large pieces of foam and debris hitting the shuttle vehicle. They did this by rapid concept development and rapid testing and analysis. They used the building block approach to do these techniques that we understood as researchers in how to solve the problem.
Eddie Turner:
The connection between success as a leader and overcoming challenges and having a high-performing team is crystallized by that example.
Charles Camarda:
That’s right. That’s just one of the examples and there are many examples like that and I’m in the process of writing a couple of different books which highlight the examples through my experience that I was fortunate to work on these amazing teams, some of them I led. One of the other teams was the repair team where we had to come up with a solution for solving a pizza box size hole in a wing leading edge, anything from a small thumbnail size hole in the wing leading edge or a crack to a very large hole. And large teams with hundreds of people at NASA, Boeing, ATK Thiokol, and Lockheed were not able to solve this problem. And so, I went in my friend’s garage, another astronaut who was a very sharp fella, Don Pettit, and we experimented with many different ideas. We used what I call the Friends of Charlie Network to basically explore these ideas, have material fabricated in different parts of the country, sent to our homes and we would test them. And so, a lot of the methods that I use to teach my students, methodology I used to teach my students, innovative conceptual engineering design or ICED, we use on the Epic Challenge Program to build teams of students to solve these challenges.
Eddie Turner:
That’s interesting. I did read that in trying to understand a little bit more about your work and this is just so fascinating what you did, to me, that you all did not come up with the solutions on NASA property. You all did this on your own time at your garage.
Charles Camarda:
Actually, it was my friend’s garage and there are a lot of reasons for doing this. The culture at NASA was dysfunctional. That’s why the accident happened. It was not psychologically safe and I totally knew that if we tried to come up with an innovative solution to the problem on campus at NASA, we would have been shut down. The people that were leading that effort would look at us as competitors, believe it or not, even though we were both trying to save lives of astronauts, they would have closed us down. And so, we had to do it in secret. And the people that I reached out to were my, what I call, the Friends of Charlie Network, knew this and even though their own companies would have told them not to work with us, because they knew me and they knew what the challenge was and how important it was, they worked with us.
Eddie Turner:
What lesson does that have for leaders today?
Charles Camarda:
I think what I’ve seen at NASA and a lot of other companies, there are very few leaders, Eddie. We have managers. The lesson is you have to have courage. You have to have courage to support the people that work for you and not be afraid to stand up to people above you and tell them when mistakes are being made. You have to have a culture that’s psychologically safe. And it’s very difficult to maintain that culture of psychological safety because when you have very large companies and they have a very hierarchical structure and hundreds and hundreds of teams, when you think about it, it only takes one of those teams to be dysfunctional. This was the case with Challenger. It was the case with Columbia. These very small teams that were entrusted to be the leaders in understanding key systems like the Shuttle O Ring System or the foam and the effect of foam impact on the wing leading edge, those teams did not have the right people on them, they did not have the right expertise and they did not operate as an interdisciplinary converged team, a high-performing team. And so, when they looked at these critical problems, they did not really understand the root cause of these problems and they did not have the analytical capability to predict what would happen in these different situations. And so, their tools were not accurate. And so, the decisions were very bad decisions.
Eddie Turner:
A deep lesson for leaders to learn indeed. Thank you for sharing, Charlie.
Well I am talking to Charlie Camarda. He is an astronaut, a research engineer, innovator, author, educator, and an internationally recognized expert and speaker. We’re talking about epic challenges in high-performing teams. We’ll have more with Dr. Charlie Camarda right after this.
This podcast is sponsored by Eddie Turner LLC. Organizations who need to accelerate the development of their leaders call Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. Eddie works with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact. Call Eddie Turner to help your leaders one on one as their coach or to inspire them as a group through the Power of facilitation or a keynote address. Visit EddieTurnerLLC.com to learn more.
Hi. This is JJ Ramberg, co-founder of Goodpods, and you’re listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.
Eddie Turner:
We’re back. I’m talking to Dr. Charlie Camarda. He is an astronaut, a research engineer, inventor, author, educator, and an internationally recognized expert and we’re talking about epic challenges in high-performing teams.
Charlie, before the break, you were telling us about your career at NASA and we were talking about what impacts leaders but the connection between whatever challenges that they have that are impacting them and that through a high-performing team as a solution to conquering. You talked about some of the things that you all did as a team to come up with a solution that saved lives.
Can you tell me, when you think about what happened with Challenger and Columbia, what was the root cause of tragic accidents like that?
Charles Camarda:
NASA’s culture changed, Eddie. In the early days, it was a very highly research-oriented organization. When we started flying shuttles, it became more like a business organization. So, it started with research centers. NASA Langley was the first of all the NASA centers. And research was a very valued commodity. And the research culture is much different than a business culture or production culture when you have people, sustaining engineers looking at sustaining the life of a space shuttle. And so, there was a very high tolerance for risk, there was a very high tolerance for failure because most researchers realized the importance of failure and there are ways to fail, right ways and wrong ways to fail – you fail in the laboratory, you fail to validate hypotheses and to validate your analytical and mathematical models of problems. And so, what you had when Columbia and Challenger happened, you had this engineering culture that did not respect the importance of the researchers within their own organization. And so, they had teams of people that were very sharp engineers but when they had these very difficult, interdisciplinary complex problems, they really did not have the right team to solve those problems, number one. And number two, they did not reach out and explore outside their team to bring in the right people to add to their team so that they would have the right knowledge to make the right decisions. And so, a high-performing team, when you look at how they communicate, how they share knowledge, how they inspire people to critique what they’re doing and they have this tolerance for diverse ideas and contradicting ideas, you have these problems.
Eddie Turner:
Most teams that get assembled think they’re a great team. How do you know when the team is not a great team?
Charles Camarda:
Well, this is one of the things we’re researching, Eddie, right? What makes teams great teams? And you saw an article not too long ago by Julia Rosowski at Google that talked about they looked at all these different Google teams and they have the greatest data analysts in the world and they’re looking for patterns as what makes one team successful and another team not so successful. And the one thing they saw that was underpinning in all the successful teams was this idea of psychological safety. When the researchers were able to look at the data through the lens of psychological safety, they could see a connection. And so, in the book that I’m hopefully going to write on high-performing teams, one of the key ingredients is this environment of psychological safety. It’s very important for a high-performing team. It’s very important for a learning organization to enable to allow this discourse, this disagreement in order to self-correct.
Eddie Turner:
Now, you’ve used that phrase a few times. Can you tell us what you mean when you say psychological safety?
Charles Camarda:
Psychological safety means you’re in an environment where it’s okay to take interpersonal risk without fear of recrimination or retribution. It’s not going to be damaging to your career. You’re not going to be canceled, Eddie, in today’s language. You will not be canceled for asking tough questions or telling your boss he or she is out to lunch, that they do not know what they’re talking about. If you don’t have an environment like that, and that’s a research environment, we’re constantly butting heads, we’re discussing what is the true behavior of this phenomenon, are we analytically predicting it correctly, are we making the right assumptions, and we’re constantly testing those assumptions and we’re comparing it with real data to validate what we know. When you stop doing that, when you stop allowing that criticism, you have a non-psychologically safe culture. You’re inviting groupthink. You’re inviting an echo chamber.
Eddie Turner:
Yes. And is it not true that the challenge that led to several of these challenges or these kinds of catastrophic events is groupthink was allowed to creep in because people were not challenging leadership?
Charles Camarda:
Absolutely, absolutely. For instance, the people on the two teams that made those terrible decisions, the shuttle O Ring team and what was called the leading edge structural subsystem problem resolution team, the LESSPRT, these were the people that in their minds they knew everything about the wing leading edge and they did not go outside their team to bring in other experts. When they knew that they did not have someone that understood ballistic impact damage to that wing, they did not bring those people in. These were people that were within their own agency. They could have reached out to people at other NASA centers to help them and they did not do so because they thought they understood the problem when they really didn’t.
Eddie Turner:
It goes back to your point earlier about diverse thinking.
Charles Camarda:
Correct.
Eddie Turner:
So, especially when you have a team of high performers because everybody, when you’re in this kind of industry, as you said, at first you only had a Bachelor’s but you had to go back get that PhD, so you’re dealing with the best of the best and the brightest of the brightest people, so everyone’s highly educated but that doesn’t mean that they’re insulated from making major mistakes.
Charles Camarda:
I can say in a few words the clear distinction between the culture at Johnson Space Flight Center and the culture at NASA Langley Research Center. I worked for over 22 years at NASA Langley with some of the top people in the area of structural mechanics. They worked for over 40 years in a narrow area of structural mechanics, let’s say, non-linear thin wall structures. They worked for 30 years, 40 years. Never once heard them mention themselves as an expert, never referred to other people as an expert but yet I moved to Johnson Space Flight Center and young engineers working five years understanding their structural behavior of a window called themselves experts in glass. And it’s that disrespect, thinking you know what you really don’t know when people that are true scientists realize that they only understand something to a certain level and then there are unknowns that they still have yet to understand. And that’s how science is. You don’t rest on your laurels because sooner or later, your hypotheses will be disproved and you’ll have to relearn something else in order to help solve that problem. So, it was this arrogance, if you will, this young engineer arrogance, thinking that they had so much knowledge that they really did not have.
Eddie Turner:
Fascinating, fascinating. I like the point that you’re making on that. Well, Charlie, I can’t let you get away from us without telling us what does a retired NASA engineer astronaut researcher do in retirement.
Charles Camarda:
I do everything I was doing while I was working, possibly even more so. My wife looks at me like I’m out of my mind. I’m not spending enough time with the kids, with the grandkids. It’s because I have these passions as a lot of us do have. And so, we continue following our passions in what we do with our children, our grandchildren. And they really are the future of our country and our world. And so, I’m spending a lot of my time trying to train young engineers and scientists around the world.
Eddie Turner:
Fantastic. And tell us if you would the best piece of advice you ever received or a quote that you use that helps you to keep leading.
Charles Camarda:
When I was thinking about the accident and why did these organizations cause problems, there was a quote by Admiral Hyman Rickover, the father of the nuclear navy, and I think he summed it up best and I have it here in front of me. What he said was “What is needed is an atmosphere, a subtle attitude, an uncompromising insistence on excellence as well as a healthy pessimism in technical matters, a pessimism which offsets the natural human tendency to expect that everything will come out right and that no accident can be foreseen and forestalled before it happens.” And that really sums it up. Basically, have the humility to not trust what you think you know but to keep searching and looking and to constantly question.
Eddie Turner:
Excellent. Thank you for sharing that. Where can my listeners learn more about you?
Charles Camarda:
You could go to CharlieCamarda.com, my webpage. I also have an Instagram, AstroCharlieCamarda, and I’m a founder CEO of the EpicEducationFoundation.org.
Eddie Turner:
Wonderful. I’m going to put all that in the show notes so that people can reach out to you, connect with you on LinkedIn, follow you on Twitter, follow you on Instagram, I certainly am, and I want my listeners to do the same.
Thank you so much for making time for me today and for helping us understand how we can be better leaders by facing epic challenges and using high-performing teams.
Charles Camarda:
Great. Thank you, Eddie. My pleasure.
Eddie Turner:
And thank you for listening. That concludes this episode, everyone. I am Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.
Thank you for listening to your host Eddie Turner on the Keep Leading!® Podcast. Please remember to subscribe to the Keep Leading!® Podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen. For more information about Eddie Turner’s work, please visit EddieTurnerLLC.com.
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The Keep Leading!® podcast is for people passionate about leadership. It is dedicated to leadership development and insights. Join your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator® as he speaks with accomplished leaders and people of influence across the globe as they share their journey to leadership excellence. Listen as they share leadership strategies, techniques and insights. For more information visit eddieturnerllc.com or follow Eddie Turner on Twitter and Instagram at @eddieturnerjr. Like Eddie Turner LLC on Facebook. Connect with Eddie Turner on LinkedIn.
