John Baldoni
Inc. Top 50 Leadership Expert | Top 100 Speaker | Executive Coach
Leadership Grace
Episode Summary
On this episode, I interview John Baldoni, an internationally recognized executive coach and leadership educator, who speaks throughout North America and Europe. John is the author of 14 books that have been translated into 10 languages. We discuss his latest book “GRACE: A Leader’s Guide to a Better Us.”
Check out this 60 Second preview of the episode!
Bio
John Baldoni is an internationally recognized leadership educator, executive coach and speaks throughout North America and Europe. John is the author of 14 books, including GRACE: A Leader’s Guide to a Better Us, MOXIE: The Secret to Bold and Gutsy Leadership, Lead with Purpose, Lead Your Boss, and The Leader’s Pocket Guide. John’s books have been translated into 10 languages.
In 2018 Inc.com named John a Top 100 speaker and Trust Across America honored John with its Lifetime Achievement Award for Trust. In 2019 Global Gurus ranked John No. 9 on its list of Top 30 global leadership expert, a list John been on since 2007. In 2014 Inc.com listed John as a Top 50 leadership expert.
John established a career as a highly sought after executive coach, where he has had the privilege of working with senior leaders in virtually every industry from pharmaceutical to real estate, packaged goods to automobiles, and finance to health care.
John has authored more than 700 leadership columns for a variety of online publications including Forbes, Harvard Business Review and Inc.com John also produces and appears in a video coaching series for SmartBrief, a news channel with over 4 million readers.
Website
www.johnbaldoni.com
Other Website
www.gracethebook.com
LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jbaldoni/
Twitter
https://twitter.com/JohnBaldoni
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Transcript
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This podcast is sponsored by Grand Heron International. Through a growing network of credentialed and vetted coaches, Grand Heron International brings you on-demand coaching with coaching on site and the Coaching Assistance Program for corporations. Whether you are a company committed to investing in your leaders, an individual navigating a complex situation or a coach searching for a superb network of coaches, visit us at GrandHeronInternational.com.
Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to promoting leadership development and sharing leadership insights. Here’s your host, the Leadership Excelerator, Eddie Turner.
Eddie Turner:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the
Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and leadership insights. I’m your host, Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power facilitation, coaching and professional speaking.
What comes to your mind when you hear the word ‘grace’? For many, it immediately triggers thoughts of religion and the belief in the free and unmerited favor of God or blessings. For others, it brings to mind the simple and elegant movements of a dancer or a person who is refined in the way that they carry themselves. My guest today approaches the word ‘grace’ in similar ways but also adds a new twist and shows how grace is something that should matter to every leader at every level. My guest today is John Baldoni. John is an internationally recognized executive coach and leadership educator who speaks throughout North America and Europe. John is the author of 14 books, including the book we’ll discuss today, Grace: A Leader’s Guide to a Better Us. John’s books have been translated into 10 languages. In 2018, Inc.com named John a Top 100 Speaker. In 2019, Global Gurus ranked John as Number 9 on its list of Top 30 Global Leadership Experts, a list john has been on since 2007. In 2014 Inc.com listed job as a Top 50 Leadership Expert. John has authored more than 700 leadership columns for a variety of online publications, including Forbes, Harvard Business Review, and Inc.com. I am excited to have the amazing John Baldoni.
John, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.
John Baldoni:
What an opening! My goodness! Eddie, you make me feel like I’m somebody important. So, thank you for that warm welcome and I’m happy to be on your show to talk about grace and leadership.
Eddie Turner:
Well, you are absolutely someone important and especially someone One who our dear mutual friend, Sally Helgesen talks about with deep admiration. So, if Sally loves you, I love you, too, John.
John Baldoni:
Sally is very special. And, as a matter of fact, she appears in Grace because she kindly gave her time to share her thoughts on what grace means to her.
Eddie Turner:
Yes, yes. And that’s another good reason I picked it up, to get the thoughts of great leaders you’ve interviewed. So, we’ll talk about that but I think perhaps the first thing we need to understand is what is Grace.
John Baldoni:
Grace is the catalyst for the greater good. So, what do I mean by that? Grace, from a faith-based tradition, is given to us without strings attached. And it’s our job as recipients to do with it what we will. And so, I kind of think of it as a facilitation, as a lubricant that loosens up our ability to think of others instead of ourselves. From a leadership standpoint, grace is that enabler that positions a leader toward others. Now, the concept of grace to me came out of my work in leadership purpose. I’ve written a couple of books around this. And purpose is our spark, I think, and is our why. And from this why becomes our vision which is our sense of becoming. It’s also our mission which is our doing and our building. Now, it also carries over to our values but, Eddie, you’ve worked with senior executives and you know you can achieve a vision and a mission in spite of people. I think it’s better and obviously more sustainable and more welcoming to others if we bring people with us along. That’s where grace enters. So, purpose is our why. Grace becomes our how. That is how we treat others.
Eddie Turner:
Very well said. Yes, indeed. In fact, some organizations have been saying “With you, without you, or in spite of you.”
John Baldoni:
You got that right.
Eddie Turner:
Yes. So, what a beautiful way of defining it. And you go so far as to not only use the traditional definitions as it relates to the context that I used in the introduction but you even created an acronym.
John Baldoni:
I did. And GRACE, let’s take them one at a time, is Generosity which is that kind of open heartedness, looking at others and being generous. And also, if we take it from a leadership standpoint, it comes with sharing authority, sharing responsibility as a means of achieving greater ends again, Eddie, with people. R is Respect and that’s the mindset where you look at the dignity of work but the dignity of humans who contribute to that work. It’s also the sense of open-heartedness. And I look at you and my first assumption is not pejorative. It’s I’m going to assume the best in you, Eddie. As a leader, I want us to work together. I want you to embrace our mission. So, rather than any preconceptions I might have about you, I’m going to assume the best in you. Easy to say but so often, especially in large organizations, some of us incur a label which is less than favorable. A more respectful leader will say “I’m going to deal with this person and I’m going to go in with an open mind.” The next part is Action. And as you well know, leaders, they think but they’re judged by their actions. The next thing is Compassion and that’s the caring, the concern, the paying of the generosity and respect for others. And the fifth one is E which is Energy. If leaders are going to lead, they have to have that energy which means they care for themselves but also, they become the catalyst for energizing their organizations. And as you can see in this acronym, the Generosity, Respect and Compassion work together as do Action and Energy.
Eddie Turner:
Interesting. So, not only you’re giving given us an acronym to make it easy to remember aspects of GRACE that we want to apply but it sounds like you’re saying there’s a framework that underlies this.
John Baldoni:
I think so. And it’s not that we go about our life and say “Well, am I a G or am I an R?” or those kinds of things. It’s an overall concept of thinking of others and what I do to others to bring them together and that I as the leader have to act on my inclinations and I have to move the organization forward. So that’s kind of what I’m getting at.
Eddie Turner:
But when you say that the G, R, C go together – Generosity, Respect and Compassion go together – and then Action and Energy go together, can you tell me a little bit more about that?
John Baldoni:
Well, it’s that the G, R, C – Generosity, Respect, and Compassion – are virtues, they’re attributes that we want to see in our leaders but it’s part of the human condition. We want to work with people who are generous. Why? Because if I’m working for a generous leader, I’m going to have the ability to share my ideas. If I work for a boss who respects me, again, I’m going to feel that I have someone who has my back. And if I work with a boss who is compassionate, then I know that his or her heart is in the right spot, whether it’s directed toward me or others. It’s how we see that leader treat others. And, of course, from a practical standpoint, more of a management standpoint, is the leader acting and is the leader keeping the team focused in the right direction? So that’s the Energy and the Action.
Eddie Turner:
Excellent. Thank you. So, John, what made you want to write this book?
John Baldoni:
Well, as we had talked earlier, Eddie, I think we live in very contentious times. And I think there’s not grace in our world. I think it’s there, excuse me. It’s not talked about enough. And what we are more inclined to do is to be judgmental, be pejorative, quick on the trigger rather than listen and learn. Grace is a virtue, if you will, that enables other virtues for us to be thankful for who we are, what we can contribute but also an attribute toward “I’m not in this alone. I can only achieve what I want to achieve with and through other people.” And grace is also that leavening that spirit that enables us to live more open-heartedness. And integral to grace are the concepts of mercy and forgiveness. And in our contentious world, when we see a wrong or perceive a wrong, how quick are we on the trigger to draw conclusions? Grace is that element that says “No, let’s take a step back.” Grace is also, and I read about this in the book, is our sense of connectedness. And one of the people I profiled in the book is Father Greg Boyle who started Homeboy Industries and still runs it, the largest gang intervention program in the country. It’s based in Los Angeles. And Father Boyle is also a terrific writer and in his new book Barking at the Choir he talks about radical kinship and that’s being there for someone else. And when we are there for someone else, we are sharing our lives, our space, and our life with them. That’s where grace enters the picture, Eddie.
Eddie Turner:
Thank you. And you do a wonderful job, you’ve cited one example there, you do a great job of reciting a lot of real-life examples that bring these principles to life. And, in fact, as you were going through and you said generosity and respect, when you hit the word ‘respect’, I thought about the Queen of Soul – RESPECT – Aretha Franklin herself and you talk about her in the book and you go to John McCain and LeBron James. I mean, you bring together so many stories that are relatable. Talk about a little bit of those that maybe you have the books replete with them but which one probably stands out the most to you that you like that really underscores the point that you want people to take away from the book.
John Baldoni:
Thank you for mentioning those three. And I’ll jump on LeBron. I mean, we all know him as certainly the greatest basketball player of his generation but what I think is so exceptional about LeBron is that he grew up in very hard circumstances. He didn’t have a father, raised by a single mother, and at 18 years old had a 100-million-dollar contract from Nike. And we look at his life and he’s not perfect, none of us are, but I don’t know one negative headline about him. That’s someone in him or me. That’s grace in action but, more importantly, what he’s done certainly, and we watch him on the basketball court and that’s grace in the sense of movement and teamwork and all that but he has given himself over to making the world a better place and where he can apply it. And I choose the example of the I Promise School which is in Akron, his hometown. And he’s very focused on doing it. He’s not just stroking a check but active in the community. He gives off himself and he donates his time. That’s grace.
And another example is Fred Rogers. Mr. Rogers is in that neighborhood. Eddie, next time you see somebody say the word ‘Fred Rogers’ and “dollars to donate,” they’ll have a smile and you just laugh; they have a smile on your face because his life brought joy to others. While he was an ordained minister, his ministry was television, specifically children’s television. And the way he connected with children was really a way to connect with all of us but it was a kindness, a sharing, a teaching and helping children learn but also their parents. And that’s a lesson from which all of us can learn.
Eddie Turner:
You tell a story in the book about him. Would you mind sharing that with our listeners?
John Baldoni:
It’s about the boy with the cerebral palsy. And that’s a wonderful story. Fred Rogers met this young man with cerebral palsy and had a long conversation with him. I think they’d met several times. And he was with an interviewer, a reporter, and the reporter heard Fred Rogers say to the young man “Please pray for me.” And then later they were talking and the reporter said something to the effect of “Well, that was really kind of you to say that to …” and Fred Rogers said “Well, what do you mean?” And he goes “Well, you know, you ask the child to pray for you and you’re making him feel special.” He goes “I didn’t do it for him. I did it for me. That young man is close to God.” So, in other words, you know, that’s the sincerity and the generosity of that spirit looking at “It’s not about me. It’s about all of us together.” And I think that was the essence of Fred Rogers.
Eddie Turner:
Yeah. And I love how he said that anyone that has gone through everything that he’s gone through and is still able to have the disposition he has must be close to god.
John Baldoni:
Absolutely.
Eddie Turner:
I figured he could do me a favor.
John Baldoni:
Absolutely.
Eddie Turner:
I thought that was beautiful and a wonderful example of humility and a willingness to be vulnerable and what that says about leaders and really what would happen if more leaders could have the approach of being vulnerable and being humble at times.
John Baldoni:
Absolutely, Eddie. And I’m sure that you’re coming across, that we’re seeing lots of more demand for a humble leader and a vulnerable leader. And while that’s good for us coaches to talk about, Eddie, and people kind of head nod when we do, it really works. And the sense of humility is not prostrating yourself in front of others but it’s a recognition of one’s shortcomings and a willingness to openly discuss them not in mean attitude but from a leadership perspective and say “Hey, this is not my strong suit but I know somebody on my team like Eddie who’s great in Finance” or “great in strategy” or whatever “and I surround myself with people better than me in specific arenas.” That’s a sense of humility. And it’s also when we make a mistake, we have the courage to stand up and apologize and not just say “If I’ve offended anybody” but talk about how you’ve hurt someone. And, more importantly, we always need, when an apology, is to couple it with amends, how will you make it right and that’s where vulnerability comes in, showing my shortcomings. And a leader who doesn’t acknowledge shortcomings is a leader who’s really a weak leader, who’s cutting him or herself off from the support of others but also, as you well know from coaching, Eddie, that lack of self-knowledge will hurt them in the long run because they won’t have the coping skills when adversity strikes.
Eddie Turner:
Absolutely. Very well said, John. And I chuckled a bit because there’s nothing worse than an apology that begins with the word ‘if’.
John Baldoni:
That’s a good one. That’s a great one. I’m going to steal that, Eddie. That’s a good one.
Eddie Turner:
I just had this situation like that the other day and it was like “No, no, let’s try that again.”
Eddie Turner:
Well, John, I’m enjoying this conversation with you. We are talking with John Baldoni, one of the world’s top leadership gurus and he is talking about his book Grace. And as we think about grace, he’s helping us understand it’s a leader’s guide to a better us.
We’ll hear more from John right after word from our sponsors.
This podcast is sponsored by Eddie Turner LLC. Organizations who need to accelerate the development of their leaders call Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. Eddie works with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact. Call Eddie Turner to help your leaders one on one as their coach or to inspire them as a group through the power of facilitation or a keynote address. Visit EddieTurnerLLC.com to learn more.
This is Patricia Fripp, the presentation skills expert, and you’re live listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with my friend Eddie Turner.
Eddie Turner:
All right, we’re back, everyone. And I am talking to the amazing global leadership guru John Baldoni. And he’s talking to us about leadership grace. Before the break, John, you were explaining some things from your book. And there’s something that you said in your book that I would like to actually read verbatim about grace and how it relates to leaders and then get your thoughts on this.
“Leaders who demonstrate grace are those who are, first and foremost, comfortable in their own skin. They know themselves warts and all. They show up shortcomings with people who can do task with better fluency. At the same time, such individuals do not shrink their responsibility. They use it as a means to accomplish good things for the team. Adversity often brings out the best in such people. Grace, in all of its dimensions, multiply our courage, is something that enriches a leader’s perspective, making him or her at once admirable as well as accessible.”
Tell me a little bit more about that. You were saying something similar to this before we went to break.
John Baldoni:
Right. And thank you for quoting that because I certainly don’t remember it but, no, it actually sums up a lot of things I think about. And when I think about leadership and I think that the operative point is it’s the old concept of “It’s not me. It’s we” and that’s what successful leaders are other directed. And when you’re other directed, that’s a sense of responsibility, Eddie. And when you’re responsible for others, you need to take stock of yourself – “Am I the best person to lead them?” And while we hope the answer is an affirmative, as we were talking before, just because I can lead and bring my people together, part of my ability to bring people together is I create opportunities for other but also I shine a light on other people and, thirdly, I bring talented people to me. I have this discussion sometime, you probably do too, Eddie, we talk to a high-performing executive and the term is a ‘flight risk’, meaning that that person is highly recruited and I always say to him “Would you rather have a bunch of people on your team that nobody wants or would you want on your team that everybody wants?” And, of course, if the answer is “I want every one of my team members to be wanted by other people” and but they choose to stay with my team.” Why? “Because I provide them the opportunity so they can excel and doing that, I acknowledge my strengths but, more importantly, I shine a light on them.” And I ask for their ideas because I’m not the best strategist, I’m not the best visionary, I’m not the best finance person, whatever it may be but gosh, darn it, I got people who are and that’s what we all want to be part of. And, of course, they overlay of all of this, Eddie, and I know you do this with work is what do we want to be part of. We all want to be part of working toward a goal that is greater than ourselves. And when we have that greater goal than ourselves, people want to pull together if we have a leader who enables us to contribute, recognizes us for it, and pulls us together.
Eddie Turner:
Very nicely said John. And as I listened to the conversation you have with your clients on the idea of having a deep bench of talented people who everybody wants versus a bunch of folks who nobody’s trying to pilfer from them, it reminded me of my work in talent development. And oftentimes in designing learning programs and offering development programs, the expense issue would come up. And there was a quote I read somewhere, I don’t remember who to attribute it to, but it was something along the lines of “Train people well enough to where they can go anywhere but treat them well enough where they’ll stay.”
John Baldoni:
That’s dynamite. That’s a great comment. And it’s exactly true. And then there’s a sense of reciprocity. If I’m working for you and you’re investing in me, that engenders loyalty. You don’t engender loyalty when I say “Eddie, be loyal to me.” I’ll say “Why?” but “Eddie, you compensate me. You provide me growth opportunities. You allow me to do my projects and all of this stuff within the parameters of our organization,” that engenders loyalty. And, frankly, if I don’t show loyalty to that, well, shame on me.
Eddie Turner:
Indeed. Well, is there something a leader can do to make grace flourish in their organizations?
John Baldoni:
I think so in the sense of be other directed. So, in other words, it’s not about me. It’s about you. And all good leaders, I think, do this. They are focused on the team. And one of the folks that I interviewed in the book, of course, is Alan Mullaly, who ran Ford Motor Company, and his mantra was “The team, the team, the team. The one for.” And they would always talk about bringing people together. And part of that is to share their ideas, problem solve together, all of these kinds of things. So, it’s the mindset of being other directed but also with a sense of, we haven’t said this word yet, kindness – “I’m going to assume the best in you. I’m going to be generous in spirit. I’m going to respect you. I’m going to care about you as a human being. I’m going to care about your life” and all of these things together and that’s where grace comes in. It’s an attitude toward others. Again, it’s the kinship, being there for others, with others, and we’re in it to succeed together.
Eddie Turner:
Wonderful. And you mentioned Alan Mullaly there in that response and you and I talked about Sally Helgesen at the start of our program. You interviewed other well-known leadership gurus including Stephen Covey. Is there another one of these great people who you interviewed that you’d like to tell us about?
John Baldoni:
Sure. Stephen M. R. Covey is the son of Stephen Covey and he had some great stories about his father but the thing was that Stephen carved his niche on trust. And trust is that bedrock virtue. Without trust there really cannot be any leadership. And I think that grace is one of those things that facilitates trust because it focuses on “It’s not about me. It’s about all of us together.” Another person I talked about in the book or I interviewed is Scott Moorehead who runs a very successful entrepreneurial venture TCC. They’re a premium Verizon reseller. And Scott is a serial entrepreneur, has lots of successful businesses, but Scott has a phrase called “Permission to care.” And he’s very philanthropical within his company, enabling people to volunteer on company time in their communities. They’re outreaching and they’re a retail organization. So, they have a footprint and, I don’t know, 2000 communities around America and employees are encouraged to become active in those communities and there’s paid volunteer time for that but their “Permission to care” is “It’s okay to care about someone else on a personal level. It’s okay to act on your compassion. It’s okay to be generous in your spirit. And, of course, it’s okay to be respectful of others.” And I love Scott’s idea about “Permission to care.”
Eddie Turner:
Permission to care. Yes, that is an interesting phrase, indeed, to be able to incorporate. Anyone else that you’d like to tell us about?
John Baldoni:
There’s so much folks I talked about in the book. And the stories are again and again of people who have been slighted or wronged and yet they rose above it or didn’t dwell on it. They didn’t dwell on the petty things. They looked at the bigger picture. An example of that might be, of course, I think, Jimmy Carter who’s, god bless him, 95 and served one term as President but gosh, what a fantastic ex-president he has been. He’s been active internationally in peace and health issues but just he physically works for Habitat for Humanity. He teaches Bible school. He is a prolific author. He is just a man of humility and knows himself and what he can do and he is outward directed. So, you may not have liked him as President but gosh, as an ex-president and as a human being, what an extraordinary man, a man of grace.
Eddie Turner:
Yes, very well said. And you’ve not just wrote this book but I find it staggering that you’ve written 14 books that have been translated into 10 different languages. What an accomplishment! Now, it may sound like I’m asking you the proverbial “Which of these is your favorite children?” question but, really, is there one of these that is your favorite or that stands out the most that you find yourself referencing more than the other?
John Baldoni:
It’s a good question, Eddie. And I have favorites. My book Great Motivation Secrets of Great Leaders, my book Lead with Purpose, my book before this Moxy. Right now, because I’m actively talking about it a great deal, it’s Grace but the themes to all of those, I have evolved over time, is that leadership is not about you, it’s about us. And what a simple thing to say but how often sometimes when we get caught up in our own world, we forget that. And that’s the other thing about that. Leaders are not saints. Leaders are frail human creatures. And one of my favorite people in history is Winston Churchill. And I’ve read a lot of biographies of him. And every time I think I know him, I learn something else about him. And, certainly, you can point to his foibles but as a quote of one of his contemporaries, Lady Leighton, who was a suffragette, said “You will know Winston’s vices or weaknesses at a glance. It will take you a lifetime to learn his virtues.” And she might have been saying it kind of as a dig but I prefer to think of it as a compliment and saying that he was an honorable man. He could drive people nuts and he drove his political party nuts and he drove his wife crazy at times but his heart was in the right place. He was a physically courageous man, a voracious reader, always exploring new technologies, he became a pilot later in his life, all of these kinds of things. He had this voracious curiosity and also a good sense of self. He knew when he made mistakes and was not afraid to admit it. And so, in some ways, that Churchillian mindset of being a good leader but also one with human weaknesses is a good model to keep. And when leaders do make mistakes, acknowledge it and apologize, make amends, resolve to do the right thing the next time because if you dwell on your mistakes, as you know and I’m sure it comes up in coaching all the time, Eddie, is “How do I get out of this and how do I grow from this?”, learning from our mistakes is maybe the greatest lesson we can learn if, of course, we pay attention.
Eddie Turner:
Yes. And that is the qualifier because, otherwise, we end up making the same mistakes over and over again and no learning is taking place. So very nice.
John, I’m enjoying our conversation. And one of the things I’m thinking about is how do we pull this all together. What’s the overriding message you would like to leave our listeners with as a summary?
John Baldoni:
I’m going to repeat what I said earlier because I’m not clever enough to come up with something else and but it’s more or less purposes are why. In other words, what’s my leadership’s purpose and how can I fulfill it in my vision for myself, my vision for my team, my organization. And my mission is in what I do but grace becomes our how. I want to be other directed. I want to be there for other people. I want to be accessible. I want to help my team grow. I want to be there when people are in crisis. I want to be there when my team is facing adversity. And I want to celebrate the wins with my team.
Eddie Turner:
Wonderful. I love it. Well, thank you for sharing your insights with us. It’s not everyday someone gets to get a top leadership guru, Number 9, on their show. So, what an honor and a privilege to really have you and I just can’t thank you enough, John, for being on the show.
John Baldoni:
Eddie, you asked great questions and you made it easy for me and I am grateful to you. You are a man of grace.
Eddie Turner:
I appreciate it. And please tell my listeners where they can learn more about you.
John Baldoni:
My website is the easiest way which is simply my name JohnBaldoni.com. I also write regularly for Forbes.com, you’ll find me there. And I also do videos as well as columns for SmartBrief.com. And, also, I’ve got almost 200 videos on YouTube, coaching videos.
Eddie Turner:
Wonderful. Well, we’ll put all that in the show notes so folks can find you, connect with you, and continue to follow you and learn from you.
John Baldoni:
Thank you, Eddie.
Eddie Turner:
Thank you again, John.
And thank you for listening. That concludes this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.
Thank you for listening to your host Eddie Turner on the Keep Leading!® Podcast. Please remember to subscribe to the Keep Leading!® Podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen. For more information about Eddie Turner’s work please visit EddieTurnerLLC.com.
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