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Keep Leading!® Podcast 115 | How to Develop Promotable Leaders | Amii Barnard-Bahn

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Amii Barnard-Bahn
Former Fortune Global 50 Executive and Author of the Promotability Index®
How to Develop Promotable Leaders

Episode Summary
On Episode 115 of the Keep Leading!® podcast, I explored what makes a leader promotable and defines an ethical workplace with former Fortune Global 50 executive Amii Barnard-Bahn!

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
A former Fortune Global 50 executive, Amii Barnard-Bahn is a coach, author, and speaker that accelerates the success of C-suite leaders and their teams. Forbes has recognized her as one of the world’s leading coaches for legal and compliance professionals. Clients include Adobe, The Gap, Bank of the West, and The Nature Conservancy. A contributor to Harvard Business Review and Fast Company, Amii is a Fellow at the Harvard Institute of Coaching and a guest lecturer at Stanford and UC Berkeley. A lifelong diversity advocate, Amii testified for passage of the first laws in the U.S. requiring corporate boards to include women. She lives in Sacramento with her husband and two teenage daughters. Download her free Promotability Index® career assessment at http://bit.ly/AskAmii

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Transcript

Did you know that indecision is costing you money? When employees get stuck in indecision loops, it can impact their work, the work of others, commitments to clients and ultimately, your bottom line. Give your employees access to coaching when they need to stop in decision loops and keep your business moving forward. Visit Grand Heron International.Ca/podcast to learn about the Grand Heron Plus Program for corporations.

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to promoting leadership development and sharing leadership insights. Here’s your host, The Leadership Excelerator®, Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, masterful facilitation, and motivational speaking.The Keep Leading!® Podcast, as I say in my introduction, is about leadership development. Today, however, I want to discuss how we develop leaders but more specifically promotable leaders. Here to discuss developing promotable leaders is Amii Barnard-Bah. Amii is a former Fortune Global 50 executive, a coach, an author, and a speaker. Amii has been recognized by Forbes as one of the leading coaches for legal and compliance professionals. For this and many reasons you’ll discover throughout our conversation, I’m simply thrilled to have Amii here on the Keep Leading!® Podcast with me.

Amii, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Thank you, Eddie. I am so excited to be here with you today.

Eddie Turner:

Amii, please tell us more about your professional background and your current consulting business.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Absolutely. Well, Eddie, I spent about 20 years working in Fortune Global 50 organizations and I worked my way up to senior executive roles such as Chief Compliance Officer, Chief Administrative Officer, and Chief Human Resources Officer. And in the C-suite, as you probably know, the best way to be a revered leader and successfully drive business strategy is to build healthy workplace cultures. And so, in my leadership roles, I always hired an executive coach to support my work and I know the exponential benefits that I leveraged in an executive coaching partnership. And so, when I founded my leadership and coaching consultancy, I founded it around a mission to help organizations create those healthy workplace cultures by supporting executives and their teams in overcoming blind spots, effectively serving their stakeholders, and reaching their full leadership potential. My goal, as I think yours probably is with your clients, is to make leadership more effortless and ultimately help people lead happier lives. And to do this in a way where employees thrive, leaders really need to progress to a higher level of performance and teams must be engaged and motivated to do their best work.

Eddie Turner:

Amii, obviously, as an executive coach, I’m excited to hear you say what you just said. I didn’t know you were going to say that, obviously. So, I have to ask a little bit more about that because I am so impressed with your career, which is one of the reasons I invited you to be a guest. Your recognition of the role executive coaching played for you, just tell us a little bit more about that.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Yeah. I would say, Eddie, when I had my first executive role is when I realized “Okay, I really need to level up and I need a safe space to do that.” I was lucky I had a supportive boss, I had a great executive team and I was working with some really smart incredibly strategic people. And I knew that I wouldn’t always know what I didn’t know, right? And I knew the worst thing you can have, in my opinion, as a leader is, well, a few things but one thing is blind spots because they can just kill you. They can just sneak up on you. And the best thing you can do as a leader is just see around corners and try to shrink what you don’t know about yourself, about how you’re showing up, about your impact, the impact of your behavior on other people. And getting a coach, to me, is number one way to do that because you can’t do it on your own.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. And so much so you’re saying that you realized that not just as a corporate employee but as a new business owner that you would need an executive coach.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Well, I was talking about when I was an executive but I also, yes, have hired coaches as a business owner, entrepreneur as well. I just think no one person can know everything. When I was in corporate, sometimes I was fortunate and my company offered me executive coaching as a perk but when they didn’t, I paid for it myself. For me, Eddie, I can say I considered it an investment in my career. I love learning, I’m very curious and I just love having people that challenge me that are smarter than me about different things and makes me smarter to be around them. And so, I’ve just always surrounded myself with kind of being on board of directors, if you will. And if it doesn’t happen naturally, I make it happen.

Eddie Turner:

Wow! I simply love hearing what you said and it’s so true, Amii. Now, you went from using executive coaches to becoming a renowned coach yourself because that’s how you and I met. I neglected to say you are a member of the esteemed Marshall Goldsmith’s MG100 family.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

I am and I am so lucky to meet such amazing people like you.

Eddie Turner:

Well, it’s very kind of you to say. I feel very fortunate to have met you and I simply enjoy the contribution that you make to our MG100 family and seeing you on our Monday morning calls and the value that you bring is just excellent.Now, you advise organizations on how they can create ethical workplaces is something that I read about you and what you’re doing. And that struck me because if I asked, 9 out of 10 employees would say “Of course we have an ethical workplace. What do you mean?” So, what is an ethical workplace?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Well, to me, an ethical workplace is a place where, and I’m talking about the employees right now, but there’s tone at the top, strong leadership that supports doing the right thing but doing the right thing is thrown around a lot, right? So, let’s break that down a little bit. So, doing the right thing means, to me, three things. Number one, employees know what’s expected of them. Number two, they know where to go when they have a question or a concern. And critically and most importantly, number three, they feel comfortable coming forward if they have a concern around illegal or unethical behavior. And that’s so important in a speaking-up culture. So, for me, an ethical culture is a company that serves its three main stakeholder groups which are its investors, its community in which it does business, and its employees and they strive to comply with laws and regulations but they also strive to be ethical and to see around corners because laws don’t take care of everything, you can’t have a rule and a policy for everything. I know that as a former head of HR, it’s pointless. And you don’t want to be finger wagging at people all the time. You want to inspire them to think about what could be the negative impact on the community that we do business in or what could be the negative impact on our employees around supply chain disruption, around a furlough, how do we keep our good people, all of that. So, to me, that’s an ethical workplace. There are people who are showing really all together a good faith effort, of course supported by leadership to do the right thing.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. And this is part of the work you’re doing as a consultant but as we said in the intro, you were a Fortune 50 executive. How did you make the switch from the C-suite to consulting?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

I had such a great ride, Eddie. I got to bounce around a little more than even a lot of other people. I was a general counsel, I’ve been a Chief Human Resources Officer, I’ve been a Compliance Officer, and then I’ve been a CIO overseeing IT and Marketing and Communications and a whole bunch of functions. And so, I felt like I had really had the opportunity to drive strategy from multiple levels and I really loved the independence that I thought that it has brought me, coaching and consulting, because I also love to write. I’m also an advocate. I’ve been an advocate for the Women on Boards Movement and for corporate diversity. And there are just some things that, as a corporate executive, you may run into conflicts of interest with. As an executive, I took it very seriously. I was the Chief Compliance Officer for a Fortune 5 company at McKesson and when you’re an executive, you are the company. Everything you say, everything you do, in my opinion, if you’re doing it right, reflects on the company. And that was wonderful for 20 years but then I wanted to do some other things. So, that meant going independent.

Eddie Turner:

Okay. And as you have gone independent, you’ve done a lot of work around what it takes to make promotable leaders. So, can you share with us what makes a leader promotable?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Sure. I studied this for a while and then, of course, having done everything, Eddie, from hiring and firing and doing succession planning in RIFs and high growth industries, all the work that I did in organizations, sitting through talent meetings for 20 years and just seeing who got promoted and who didn’t led me to focus on five key elements of promotability. And those are the things that decision makers really evaluate around performance when considering who they’re going to promote as high-potential leaders.

Eddie Turner:

Can you list the five for us?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Absolutely. So, they are self-awareness. Second is external awareness. The third is strategic thinking. The fourth is executive presence. And the fifth is thought leadership.

Eddie Turner:

I love those. I think we could do an episode, seriously. I think we could do an episode on each of the five

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Oh, we could, easily. There’s tons and I could talk for days about it, especially after writing this book. I created an assessment that’s free to anyone, 82 questions, and thousands of people have taken it and I’ve gotten such wonderful thoughts. My goal, Eddie, is … As we started our conversation around reduced blind spots, so for anyone starting out, whether they’re already in the C-suite and they’re looking at a corporate board or if they’re starting out and it’s their first job, these questions are helpful because they raise awareness of what people should be thinking about if they want, what I would call, a self-authoring career where they’re in the driver’s seat, they’re responsible for their own development. Sometimes you’re lucky enough to get a company that’s going to help you and you get an amazing boss that’s also a mentor but you and I both know that doesn’t always happen, right?

Eddie Turner:

Far too often it’s not the case.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Right. And so, my goal is to put tools in front of people that either help leaders and organizations do a better job with that and, by the way, that also create objective criteria which may be something that we can talk about as well because that gets to fairness and diversity and inclusion but also helps them just be more thoughtful about who they’re promoting and why and enables and gives a common language for employees bottom up to have these conversations with their boss.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. Please tell us those five again as well as where we can find them.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Sure. So, the Promotability Index Assessment, you can get a copy for free by texting the word ‘promoteme’, all one word, to 44222. It’s 82 questions. It’s just yes or no. It’s super fun. I’m actually migrating it to mobile as well. So, that’ll be happening in the next few weeks when the book launches. And it goes into self-awareness.

Eddie Turner:

Is that the name of the book as well, Amii?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Oh yeah, the Promotability Index Assessment, the Pi Guidebook is the book. So, with the assessment plus the book, you’ve basically got an amazing leadership toolkit for under 25 bucks. So, my goal is to make this affordable to everyone and to organizations because I do a lot of workshops and speaking engagements around it and I’ve been helping out some mentor programs as well as employee resource groups.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. And the five areas again were?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Yes. So, Self-Awareness, External Awareness, Strategic Thinking, Executive Presence, and Thought Leadership.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. So, these five keys make a leader promotable, helps them to develop. Again, I think we’re going to have to do something where I can get you to do another episode, we break those down. Speaking of promotability, you alluded to something earlier. Women are often left behind when it comes to receiving promotions in organizations. Do you mind telling our listeners what you specifically have done to help women around this area of promotability?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Sure. I would say, number one, I coach some amazing women and some fantastic men as well. And men are great allies. We need them. And I would say one thing that comes up often in my coaching in the C-suite, I think, what I find, you can think about leadership with a different lens which is the balance of assertiveness with approachability and what research has shown is that those two qualities are critical for all people, men and women, but there can be a likability penalty for women if they don’t lean in a little bit more at the right time to approachability versus assertiveness versus men who can get away with, Eddie, a little bit more leaning into their assertiveness and being a little lighter on their approachability.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed. And there’s something else significant you’ve done to help women’s promotability as it relates to a bill that was passed.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Yes, thank you. I had the privilege of testifying for the first laws in the united states to require women to sit on corporate boards. And you’d wish that we didn’t need a law, Eddie. You’d wish that it wasn’t necessary but in California, we tried a Pretty Please resolution which is a non-binding legislative resolution and nothing happened for two years, the numbers didn’t move at all. It was like 16% of corporate board seats in the state of California for publicly traded companies were held by women, 16%. And we’ve got over 55% of MBA graduates and all kinds of other data showing us that it’s not a pipeline problem. It’s an access problem.

Eddie Turner:

Yes.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

And here’s a unique way, and of course underrepresented, people of color are also completely underrepresented as well. So, it’s not just women. And so, what we wanted to do with this bill which is a mandatory bill in California and it’s been in place now for about a year and a half and now, I’m very happy to say that we actually exceeded our goal. Originally, we had a 20% goal for 2020 and we met it early and now in California we’re at about 22%.

Eddie Turner:

Fantastic.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

It’s better, right? And I wrote an article for Harvard Business Review actually around pay inequality and how companies can implement procedures around addressing pay as well for women and people of color and make sure that those are equitable. So, I just like opening doors and figuring out a practical pathway to what I personally hope and believe companies would want. And that is, again, empowering all employees to do their best work because that’s the competitive advantage companies have.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

It’s not the product. It’s the people, at the end of the day. Anyone can copy your product if you wait long enough, right? It’s the people.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, absolutely. Well, thank you, Amii.I’m enjoying my conversation with Amii Barnard-Bah. She’s an attorney. She is a speaker, an author, a former Fortune 50 global executive. You can see her work in the Harvard Business Review, Forbes, the San Francisco Chronicle, NBC affiliates, and other national business publications. We’ll have more with Amii right after this as we continue our discussion about how to develop promotable leaders.

This podcast is sponsored by Eddie Turner LLC. Organizations who need to accelerate the development of their leaders call Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. Eddie works with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact. Call Eddie Turner to help your leaders one on one as their coach or to inspire them as a group through the power of facilitation or a keynote address. Visit EddieTurnerLLC.com to learn more.

This is Lou Diamond from Thrive Loud with Lou Diamond and you’re listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

We’re back, everyone. I’m talking to Amii Barnard-Bah. She’s an attorney, an author, a speaker and a former Fortune 50 global executive. We’re talking about how to develop promotable leaders.Amii, fascinating discussion before the break and I loved the key points that you’ve shared with us and the index you’ve created. It sounds like you are just doing some incredible things out here and I would love to know what are the big projects you’re working on right now.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Thanks, Eddie. Well, I am working on what I realized was the second half to the assessment that we mentioned earlier. The Promotability Index was a great assessment tool for people but as I conducted a lot of workshops and worked last year, we were all in confinement virtually, people asked for more. And so, then, I realized I needed to write a guidebook around the index. So, that’s coming out later this month.

Eddie Turner:

Okay.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

It’ll be called the PI Guidebook. And together with the assessment, you’ve got a really powerful toolkit.

Eddie Turner:

A little bit of a one-two punch, huh?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Yeah, I like about it is I tried to create something that I would enjoy and that appeals to everyone. It’s kind of a choose-your-own-adventure type of a guidebook. You can pick which of the five elements you’d like to work on. You can talk to your boss about it. The most powerful discussions, Eddie, I found are when teams do this together. And I’ve done some mentoring workshops and other things for folks because it provides a common language for discussions and career succession planning with your manager. And then for leaders who find it challenging and difficult to have these conversations, which they can be, having been in that role, it’s really helpful if you can objectively say, okay, to get promoted, you would need to get better at presentations, you need to get more concise in your speaking or you don’t realize how you’re showing up and actually you need to invest more in your relationships, your external awareness and some of your stakeholders, right? So, this gives you that kind of a checklist to work on and potentially have that discussion with your boss. And if you don’t have a boss you feel comfortable with, you can go it alone or of course you can get a coach but at least it gets you something in your hands that gives you over 30 exercises. The guidebook is very practical. It walks you through creating your own self-development plan. And, again, it has over 30 exercises to create that plan based on where you are and what you want to work on. And so, the assessment helps you assess where you are and then you take those results and then you use the guidebook to develop where you’re either told you need to develop or where you feel you need to.

Eddie Turner:

Well, this is interesting. As you are working with people on the promotability index and you’re having the workshops and now they’ll have the book coming out, what have you found to be one of the elements about promotability that people simply just keep underestimating?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

The one, Eddie, that people underestimate the most is external awareness. And I’ve divided awareness into two different types. They’re interrelated and they overlap and they’re self-reinforcing their self-awareness which to me is knowing your what, how, and why like “What are my gifts? Why do I do what I do? What’s my mission?” External awareness is equally important but it’s around “How is my behavior impacting others? Am I aware of how I show up in the world? Is my message getting across? Am I executing in a way that enables me to reach those goals and to fulfill my mission?” And so, what I find is that as a coach, and you may find this as well, is that people underestimate how they’re showing up. They may make some assumptions and they may not check in enough. And I actually just wrote a Harvard article about this, which is called Promotions Aren’t Just About Your Skills. They’re About Your Relationships.

Eddie Turner:

I was wondering where I read that and I shared that.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Oh, you did. Thank you. I remember that. You and I both know that promotions aren’t always fair and they’re not always rational. So, when it comes down to promotions, your skills and knowledge and abilities are usually just a ticket to the game. And, of course, you need to be good at what you do but it’s really the relationships and working with other people that get you that promotion. So, that’s why it’s really important to invest in those and learn what impact your behavior has on others and secondly, how you’re perceived which is often, I would describe it as experiences over time.

Eddie Turner:

Okay. I like that. Now, I’m thinking about what you said and I realized something, Amii. I’m an assessment guy too.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Yeah, I bet you are.

Eddie Turner:

There’s tons of them out there.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Yes, we could drown in them.

Eddie Turner:

At a certain point, you said “I don’t care about all of the assessors that are out here. None of them are hitting the sweet spot. I’m going to make my own.” So, number one, kudos to you for having the ability, the thought process to make your own but what made it necessary?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

I didn’t see anything out there that dealt with the reality of how promotions are given and that focus people in the right areas. There are many assessments that I use with my clients that are exceptional. So, this is not a criticism of the existing amazing psychometric assessments that are out there but mine is also just a facially valid way of thinking about how companies truly behave and act and what’s important. And it’s super user friendly. I made it free for everyone even though, as you can imagine, it was a huge investment for me to create it but it’s just 82 questions, yes or no. And it’s up to you what you do with it. And I do have some coaches who love using it with their clients, which has been really fun to hear and very rewarding. And the way that I worded the questions, Eddie, is also that when you when I ask the questions, they can raise awareness in and of themselves. So, I tried to combine awareness raising along with action and inspiration at the same time, if that makes sense. And so, just simply asking a question, you know how powerful that can be as a coach, right? Asking the right question of ourselves at the right time, that can just be life-changing and in terms of how we’re framing our life, how we’re looking at executing what our priorities are, where we’re spending our attention, the one precious gift that we have. and so, I created the assessment because I didn’t see anything like it. It’s not a personality test. It’s not a conflict resolution instrument. It’s just if you want to think about how other people think about getting ahead, that’s really what it’s for.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. Do you have a success story you can share with us?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Yes, I am happy to share one particular one that stands out that is very meaningful to me. One client that I was coaching is exceptionally brilliant and executed her job perfectly from a technical standpoint and she was supported by her boss for his role because he was retiring and he was in the C-suite. She’d worked at this company for 10 years and had worked for also all the other major startups, successful tech startups in Silicon Valley. So, she has exceptional credentials. And when the CEO informally went around and said “Hey, if I put this person up to replace so and so who’s leaving, would you support it?”, which is what happens, as you know. There’s these informal conversations that people check up on you, how are you perceived, do people want to work with you, do they want you on the C-suite because once you’re in that room, you spend a lot of time together just like being on a corporate board, right? You’ve got to know those people have your back, you got to all be working together, especially under crisis. And he got some no’s back that “No, I wouldn’t want to work with this person. They’re too aggressive. My team hates working with them. My team comes to me to try to avoid directly talking to them.” So, this person didn’t realize it but they were creating a long shadow, is what I would say, for themselves and creating work for other executives that they weren’t aware of. So, I was brought in and worked with this person. And one of the interesting bits of feedback I got was that the team loved this person. It was peers and people above that didn’t. And this person fiercely protected their team. They were warm, kind, they were a great mentor. So, I knew they were coachable. And what I found is they just had not realized that it wasn’t all about technical skills. It’s really back to that other question around the awareness. They worked on it. They realized they could lean in and relax a little and be more personable and that they weren’t going to be able to get their work done if they weren’t working as peers in a respectful way with other people. And after about six months, they got the promotion and that was very, very gratifying.

Eddie Turner:

That has to be. Fantastic. Yeah, so many times individuals don’t fully appreciate that it’s not about their technical prowess. It’s those soft skills that are derailing their careers. So, thank you for sharing this success story with us.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Sure.

Eddie Turner:

Amii, what’s the main message you’d like to make sure our listeners walk away from our conversation today with?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

For me, it would be really own your self-development. Consider it a continuous learning opportunity for the rest of your life and know that careers aren’t linear. Even from my own, if I drew it on a map, Eddie, it would look like a zigzag with some spirals or something. I think when we’re young, we think “Okay, I’m going to go to college, I’m going to work hard, I’m going to get a great job, I’m going to continue to work really hard, I’m going to know everything I need to know about what I need to do and it’s just a straight line.” And I think if anything this past year has proven, that’s not the case. And so, my hope is to inspire and motivate people to number one, not feel bad about that if they were hit hard in the pandemic and number two, help them focus on what they can control. And we can always learn more, we can always be open to feedback, we can really own a lot that will help us continue learning and have fulfilling lives and that’s really my goal.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you. And on the Keep Leading!® Podcast, I always like to know is there a quote or a piece of advice that you live by that helps you to keep leading?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Gosh, there are several. I love the quote by Peter Drucker that says “You should not change yourself but create yourself.” That means build around your strengths and removing bad habits.

Eddie Turner:

I like that. Thank you for sharing that. That’s a great quote for sure for leaders everywhere to keep leading.Amii, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed my conversation with you. Where can my listeners learn more about you?

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Thank you, Eddie. They can please feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn and just mark in the comments that you’re a friend of Eddie’s, that you’ve been listening to his podcast so I know who you are. And then you can go to my website which is BarnardBah.com and you can download my free Promotability Index Assessment if you’re curious about where you stack up by texting the word ‘promoteme’ to 44222. And you can also visit on my website. And I’m also in all the places. I’m on Instagram and I’m on Twitter but I really like LinkedIn the best.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. Well, we’re going to put all this in the show notes so people can reach out to you, Amii, follow you, connect with you and certainly take the Promotable Index Assessment to see how they stack up as a promotable leader. Thank you for being a guest.

Amii Barnard-Bah:

Oh, thank you so much for having me. It’s been my pleasure.

Eddie Turner:

And thank you for listening. That concludes this episode, everyone. I Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our position or our title. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to your host Eddie Turner on the Keep Leading!® Podcast. Please remember to subscribe to the Keep Leading!® Podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen. For more information about Eddie Turner’s work, please visit EddieTurnerLLC.com.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The Keep Leading!® podcast is for people passionate about leadership. It is dedicated to leadership development and insights. Join your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator® as he speaks with accomplished leaders and people of influence across the globe as they share their journey to leadership excellence. Listen as they share leadership strategies, techniques and insights. For more information visit eddieturnerllc.com or follow Eddie Turner on Twitter and Instagram at @eddieturnerjr. Like Eddie Turner LLC on Facebook. Connect with Eddie Turner on LinkedIn.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 115 | How to Develop Promotable Leaders | Amii Barnard-Bahn appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 114 | The Value of Values | David Cohen

admin — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 12:08:17 +0000

David Cohen
Thought Leader on Corporate Culture & Behavioral Competencies and Contrarian Consultant
The Value of Values

Episode Summary
On Episode 114 of the Keep Leading!® podcast, I discussed the value of values in organizations with David Cohen. We see values in company mission statements and employee placards. What do they really mean? How can organizations improve in the application? Listen to this episode to learn the answer!

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Recognized as a global thought leader on the people side of the business. David has presented and consulted on five continents working with corporate leaders and employees to improve people practices enabling productivity and business success. He is considered a thought-provoking speaker who challenges the status quo on conventional thinking regarding corporate culture and organizational behaviors. As a result, he has earned the moniker: the contrarian consultant. He has worked with organizations across all business sectors, large and small, public and private, to help identify a firm’s DNA to ensure a meaningful people experience, resulting in positive employee experience, retention, and productivity. David began his consulting career in 1986. He has a doctorate in Organizational Behaviour from Boston University and graduate studies in education at Harvard School of Education.
David is a keynote speaker, educator, disruptor, facilitator, team builder, and executive coach.
He has authored two books and numerous articles in professional journals.
David is a member of the MG100 Coaches

Website
https://sagltd.com/

LinkedIn
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This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Today I want to talk about values and specifically values in organizations. We see them on mission statements and company placards but what do they really mean and how can we improve in executing and living company values. Well, we’re going to talk about the value of values with educator and consultant Dr. David Cohen. Dr. David Cohen is recognized as a global thought leader on the people side of business. He has presented and consulted on five continents, working with corporate leaders and employees to improve people practices enabling productivity and business success. Among other things, he’s the author of two books and numerous articles in professional journals. He’s a fellow member of Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 Coaches and most recently was selected as one of the world’s Top 30 Organizational Cultural Professionals for 2021. Here with me today to talk about the value of values is Dr. David Cohen.

David, welcome to the program.

Dr. David Cohen:

Thank you. A pleasure to be here.

Eddie Turner:

Tell me what I missed.

Dr. David Cohen:

I don’t think you missed anything really. You covered it all. The only thing you missed is I have five grandchildren who I wish I could spend a lot of time with but pandemic prevents that.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Well, when you talk about five grandchildren, I suspect that there’s some value behind values dealing with them.

Dr. David Cohen:

No, there is. That’s something that I’ve been working on. And in the Jewish tradition, there’s a thing called an ethical will where you pass on to your children and grandchildren the belief system you hold that you hope they understand it and can be a legacy to make you proud. So, I’ve been working on one for a long time.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. How do we do that in companies?

Dr. David Cohen:

That’s a great idea. I’ve been thinking about doing that. The more I got into this, the more I think about “What is the ethical will?” because one of the things that I talk to leaders about, especially the HR leaders, they say “Don’t talk to your CEO or your executive team about values and vision because they’re just going to think that that’s your job as HR. That’s the bunny hugging tree kissing stuff. There’s a lynch word that gets them too excited about the concept. So, the back door into this is to talk about your legacy. What do you hope is your legacy? What do you hope to hear, you’re retired, you’re on vacation in Europe and you hear it on the table next to you a young person who is going back to work after the vacation’s over and really excited to join what was your organization for all the reasons you hoped that they would join it and you get really excited. What is your legacy going to be? Why is your legacy? What are the behaviors that created that legacy and where did that come from?” And, in essence, it comes from your belief system, your values. So, that’s how I got into it.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Well, what are values?

Dr. David Cohen:

Values, by my definition, are four things – strongly held beliefs, emotionally charged, resistant to change, universally – applied meaning that it doesn’t matter whether you’re the intern who just started as a college co-op or whether you’re the CEO, the values are the same for everybody in the organization, universally applied. And those values make it a psychologically safe place to work because the values are the norms of behavior that are accepted over time to differentiate right from wrong. So, one of the things which I always find sad and humorous at the same time is when I hear about people coming in to change corporate culture. And culture doesn’t change. If the foundation for culture is the values, it’s really hard to change our values. And if we can’t change our values, then how can you change corporate culture?

Eddie Turner:

Why is it hard to change values.

Dr. David Cohen:

Because it’s our belief system that’s strongly held, emotionally charged, resists change. That’s the definition, to me, of a value. As a result of that, we have built up those values over time. We have learned that this is our belief system because this is what either our parents taught us or something happened in adolescence, it gets reinforced through college or university. And by the time we hit young adulthood, we have a pretty set belief system that’s not going to change unless there’s a significant emotional event in our life such as having a child, losing a loved one or even this pandemic could cause somebody to change their perspective. That, to me, is probably the only incidents that are going to cause people without even realizing it perhaps to change what they find is important, what they cherish, how they treat people is acceptable or unacceptable.

Eddie Turner:

Well, every company is trying to establish values and rally people around a common set of core values but since they’re so deeply personal, as you mentioned, how do you do that when everyone has a different sense of what’s right or wrong or what’s important?

Dr. David Cohen:

Well, that’s a great question. First of all, I always find it interesting that we want to find out what our values are. Whether you have a defined set of values or not, you have a set of values, you have a corporate culture that exists. You might not have taken the time to define it but believe me your employees know exactly what it is. And people often ask me what’s a successful culture, what does it look like. I say “Are your people staying with you, are they engaged, are your retention numbers high and your profit, your bottom-line cash flow is really strong, you have a successful culture” but you’re right, different people have different value sense. So, in order, to me, to have a successful employee experience, you have to know what the behaviors are that define your values. So, for instance, to say that we value trust, well, what does trust mean, what are the behaviors that define trust. And once you identify that, you can identify what makes your definition of trust different from the definition of trust at the person across the street because no two organizations have exactly the same culture. We’ve all heard of the person who gets stolen away by the competition and within a week or two is coming back asking for their job back because they found out the grass isn’t greener on the other side and they don’t like working there. It’s the same company basically doing the same thing, the same products, same industry. The only difference was the way one organization behaves internally versus the others. And what the person finds out is the other organization has a different set of internal behaviors, has a different belief system, has a different way they treat their customers, they treat their employees, management makes decisions. They’re unhappy with it. They realize they were happy at the other one and they go back. So, no two organizations have exactly the same. So, how do you do this? The first thing is you have to identify what your values are. Unfortunately, most organizations, in my opinion, identify aspirational values.

Eddie Turner:

Such as.

Dr. David Cohen:

Such as any of them, any values. I mean, I’m working with a company right now, she’ll go nameless. The CEO claimed they didn’t have to live the values because they’re aspirational, all right? And one of them, let’s say, was caring. And they made a decision on the executive team where he allowed one of his direct reports to do things which didn’t demonstrate the behaviors of caring to her people. And people got really upset because it felt like that this woman had special privilege, he was getting away with things, etc., etc. And when I confronted him on it, he said “Well, the values are aspirational. We’re moving towards them.” And I said “Once you publish them, people will expect that they’re going to be lived. They no longer are aspirational.” He, unfortunately, didn’t agree with that and I don’t work with them anymore but the fact is that the values, the way I go about defining them, are from what I call the corporate legends within the organization – what are the stories that exemplify people having lived your values.

Eddie Turner:

It sounds as if this client was using the idea that they’re aspirational as an excuse for inaction.

Dr. David Cohen:

Yes. No, as an excuse, yeah, for inaction. I’m not following him. And then he went into this whole thing “Well, we live some of the values some of the time and other values other times.” And I said “No, the concept of values are all of equal importance.” You mentioned the word that, to me, is like rubbing chalk inappropriately on a chalkboard in the old days, showing my age, and the reality is there’s no such thing as core values. And it’s a philosophical thing, I know, but core values indicate there might be a backup set of values like I got my core indicators here and then I got my surrounding indicators there. No, we have a set of values. And reality is we all think we have values but they turn out to be beliefs if they’re challenged and we give them up. What we don’t give up, we don’t compromise on are values.

Eddie Turner:

Well, that’s a really good definition. Difference between a belief and a value – we will change our beliefs but we will not compromise on our values. I like that definition.

Dr. David Cohen:

And, to me, one of the best examples on the corporate world was what Howard Schultz did at Starbucks when he gave out same-sex insurance to his employees, part-time and full-time, and he got challenged at the next board meeting by a gentleman saying how could he do this and what could he do and it goes on and on and Shultz looks at him and says respectfully “If you don’t like the way what we’re doing … In the last year our share price has gone up 37%. If you don’t like it, please take your money and go somewhere else” because he would not give in to this myth that shareholders have a hold over leadership of the company. He will do the right thing no matter what. There was an interview that, forgot his name, the Canadian, Mr. Wonderful Dragon’s Den, he accused Starbucks of worrying more about employees and worrying about the bottom line, that the corporate purpose is to create wealth for shareholders. That’s not the purpose. That’s a byproduct of doing business correctly. And once you do business correctly, then you’ve got the right set of values, you’ve got the right behaviors and you’re successful.

Eddie Turner:

So, is that the value of values?

Dr. David Cohen:

The value of values is, yeah, you will make the right decision in difficult times. And the value of values is you set a psychologically safe environment. The problem is that there’s usually in organizations two sets of values. There are overt and covert values. The overt values are the ones on the boardroom wall or your website, which every time an employee looks at, they kind of scoff at it and becomes cynical because nobody in leadership ever lives them and probably most of the employees don’t. And then there’s a covert set of values. The covert set of values are what you don’t learn at orientation or onboarding. You learn just before you make a mistake and somebody who likes you tells you “We don’t do it that way around here” or “That’s not how you approach senior leaders.” Now, the values might indicate that it’s an open environment where there’s freedom of communication but in reality, everybody’s got the old carbon copy in their desk proving that they had 12 approvals of it before they went ahead and did it. So, to me, there’s two sets of values. When the overt and covert values are one and the same, you have a healthy organization, you have an organization that believes in itself, makes the right decisions regardless of what’s going on around them.

Eddie Turner:

Should organizations, if they’re going to live values, hire for values?

Dr. David Cohen:

Yes. Now, this is a big debate because there’s a lot of people who say that “If I hire for values, I’m perpetuating the old boys school.” And I’m glad you brought that up because there’s this concept that we hire like ourselves, which in some cases, unfortunately, is true. You are in the southern US. I’m in Canada. You got somebody in Asia. You got somebody in India. You got somebody in Saudi Arabia. We can all have a very similar belief system within, I call it, the curb stones. It’s like a four-lane highway. So, there’s a belief system and we all have a common understanding. We can all join that same company and we can all come at things with our own background, our own perspective, our own diversity but yet we will treat each other the way each other wants to be treated. Therefore, when you hire for values, you hire people who will make the right decision in difficult times, will do the right thing when nobody’s watching them. So, hiring for values has got a bad reputation where people have mistakenly, in my opinion, said “Well, no, if you hire for value, everybody’s the same.” I worked in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia with the Islamic Development Corporation. I worked with the University of Notre Dame with senior leadership on performance management and values. I’m not roman catholic and I’m not Muslim but I enjoyed those two organizations in particular because there was a similarity in belief systems, there was a similarity in outlook on making the world a better place. I mean, University of Notre Dame is very focused on that. University of Notre Dame would not compromise athletic teams. The president of the university with a great deal of pride said to me “None of our teams have ever missed more than one day of class to go to a ball game. Education comes first.” That’s a values-based organization that is very focused on, yeah, winning football is really important but it’s not the purpose of the school. The purpose of the school is to give a solid education, a religious-based education to our students who choose to go here. The Islamic Development Bank has representation from, I think, it is 72 different Muslim countries. People from all over the world work there but they have a purpose which is rooted in a set of values which says “We are giving funding to improve healthcare, improve infrastructure, improve schools.” There’s a purpose to it. So, it doesn’t really matter where you’re coming from in the world. If you have a similar set of values, you can now have people from diverse backgrounds, economic systems, geographic systems that all have a similar belief system and get along very well and create the kind of ideas that were never created before.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. Well, we’re talking about the value of values with Dr. David Cohen. I’m enjoying this discussion and we will continue to learn more from Dr. David Cohen right after this.

This is Manbir Kaur, executive and leadership coach and author and you’re listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

We’re back. I’m talking to Dr. David Cohen. Dr. David Cohen is an educator and a consultant. He is also one of the world’s top 30 Organizational Culture Professionals for 2021 as ranked by Global Gurus.

Now, David, you were explaining to us before the break the difference between values and beliefs. I loved your definition that your beliefs can change but our values, we’re going to hold on to those. And then we talked about why that matters for organizations but you also mentioned culture. And many of us who worked in the talent development space or organizational development space, we hear the phrase “Culture eats strategy for breakfast.” Is that true?

Dr. David Cohen:

Yes, it is, but Peter Drucker says he never said it. So, we don’t really know who said it and what is confusing to me is when organizations and consultants talk about changing their culture. And when you analyze it, they’re changing their strategy. And so, I challenge anybody to say you’re changing the culture if you’re not changing the values. A change of strategy is going to be more successful if you celebrate your values, celebrate your culture, get people excited and understanding what it means to move forward. That’s why I often call the work I do a back to the future exercise. Strayed from what made us great. New CEOs have come in, they tried to put their stamp on it and there’s always those employees that have been there a while who say “In the old days, it was good because they were more successful. People did get along better.” So, often, it’s simply about finding about your roots and finding out where you’re from and what made you great and then celebrating that. Culture is stronger because of the value system, as I said, evolve, they don’t change. Values evolve slowly. So, if we can celebrate our values, we will make strategy stronger. If we use our changing strategy to say there’s a change in culture, I think you confuse the inmates and there’s a psychological safety that you’re pulling out from underneath them.

Eddie Turner:

Well, you shared with us some of the biggest mistakes you see companies making earlier in terms of number one, having these and not living them and calling them aspirational but who’s getting it right in this space?

Dr. David Cohen:

There’s a lot of people are getting it right in this space. I mean, to name a few, there’s a company I work with in Fort Lauderdale, Florida called HEICO Aerospace and they make all decisions based on their value set. They don’t call them values. They call them factors for success because at the time, the CEO didn’t want to call them values. So, they’re factors for success. For instance, they have a certain way they’d treat people in that values and they’ve grown exponentially because of purchase and growth. And when they bought a firm, for instance, in Arizona, a right to work state, they could have fired everybody but that’s not the way they treat people, that’s not their policy. And when they sat everybody down, it was a small firm and they set the 40 people down before letting them go, they also told them that they would get one-week salary for every year they worked there. Some people worked there 20 something years. And these peoples basically started to cry. They were in a state of shock. They all wanted to come work for the company. They couldn’t if they’d have to move locations and they were not going to pay for anybody to move. So, values, you know that when something happens, you’ll do the right thing.

I’ll give you another example, one of my favorite examples, of a corporate legend which means living your values is when Michelin Tires in the 1980s when there was a global recession, depression actually, and cars weren’t being made. Therefore, they don’t have to make new tires and they closed down three plants in Canada. And that was for almost two years. And for every two weeks, every employee got their paycheck. Nobody misses. They don’t lay anybody off or anything else. However, here’s the advantage to it. Not only they lived their values, they also were the first ones making tires. And therefore, they sold more tires and made up the difference. It was a strategic move based on their values. Another move that happened at Michelin is a young employee who was working there a very short period time, hourly employee, had a very sick child, had to be flown to Toronto for the hospital for children here. And Michelin, to tell the story in short order, basically paid for him to go with his family, which isn’t covered by provincial insurance, and they also paid for his hotel and some of his food while he was here because the honorarium the province gives him basically didn’t even pay for parking in Toronto. And when he got upset and said “I can’t go because I’ve only worked here for 10 months and I got to pay my bills, etc., etc.,” the general manager of manufacturing said to him “Now your job assignment is to be with your kids, your wife and child until further notice.” Now, fast forward some 35 years and one of the senior people at the corporate head office had a wife who was severely ill needed to be treated for in Philadelphia and they paid for him. They didn’t stop paying his salary. He was supposed to be in France every four or five weeks. He didn’t go to France. He didn’t even go to the office for almost a year. He did everything on telephone long before the pandemic. So, they treated him as a CHLO the same way they treated their hourly employee 30 years before that. So, that to me is when organizations live their values. Starbucks lives their values.

There’s a lot of organizations out there that actually do a pretty good job with this. It’s not storybook. It’s real. And as a result of that, they have people that … Home Depot has regained its values it lost under Nardelli and when Nardelli left with a nice payout of 260 million dollars, the replacement CEO went to the founders and said “What made this organization so great? Why did people bleed orange? What do I do to bring it back to the way it was?” And it all had to do with the treatment of people. And it didn’t have to do with a change in strategy because some of the Nardelli’s strategies were really good. So, that’s why I’m saying that strategy is great but first you have to define your values, then you define your vision and what is that future state you hope to achieve but never probably will, it’s that North Star I call it, the golden ring on the merry-go-round you’re always after, you’re always focused on it, and then you put your strategy together because the test of the correctness of your strategy is it will move you towards your vision and treat your people according to the values.

One of the hospitals I worked with, Mass General Hospital, is over 200 years old and they are a values-based organization that will treat their people the same way, make similar decisions that were made 200 years ago when it was founded. It’s about people first and care first. So, it’s very interesting. There are a lot of hospitals today that are worried about money first, not care, unfortunately. And so, to me, that’s when organizations make a difference.

The other thing I want to say to really cause people to think, I hope, is integrity is not a value. Everybody argues that integrity is a value. When you try to define integrity, you start defining your other values – caring about people, respect, doing what we say we’re going to do, etc., etc. And one of the organizations I worked with was the Calgary Police Service which had a G8 meeting and only four arrests and no property damage because they lived their values. And the chief of police Christine Silverberg actually, while we were discussing this, sort of came up with what I consider a brilliant idea. She said “The Calgary Police Service will have integrity when we live our values.” So, I think integrity is an outcome of living your values. It’s not a value unto itself.

Eddie Turner:

Very nice. Thank you, David. And David, you’ve written a couple of books. Can you tell us, if we’re listening to this conversation and we want to learn more about your work, tell us both books, what they’re called, which one should we pick up first?

Dr. David Cohen:

Well, if it’s the subject of leadership values, corporate legends, it’s Inside the Box. It’s called Inside the Box for two reasons. One, I don’t believe your values can go outside. You can’t get creative with your values and do things that are not aligned to your values plus the fact that my family, my grandfather, my father were both in the box business. And there’s stories in the beginning and in the end of the book about how they lived their values and put their values first. So, it’s called Inside the Box. It’s available only now as an e-reader and the best place to get it is download it directly from the publisher Wiley as any reader. The other one is called The Talent Edge and it’s about how to rate behavioral competencies and do structured behavioral interviewing so you can hire successfully to fit the culture of the organization, also by Wiley and also downloadable at any place but I think people find them more accessible at Wiley or they can go to my website which is SagLtd.com. And I have numerous articles there or at my LinkedIn site, numerous articles on culture, values, leadership, etc.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. Well, we’re going to drop a link to your website and to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes so people can connect with you and follow your work.

Dr. David Cohen:

That’d be great. Thank you very much.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you for spending time with me today talking about the value of values so we can keep leading.

All right, everyone, that concludes this episode. This is Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our position or our title. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 114 | The Value of Values | David Cohen appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 113 | Love ‘Em or Lose ‘Em | Beverly Kaye

admin — Sun, 04 Jul 2021 13:36:10 +0000

Beverly Kaye
Founder and CEO – BevKaye&Co.
Love ‘Em or Lose ‘Em

Episode Summary
I had a fascinating conversation with Bev Kaye, the author of the number one bestselling employee retention book in the world—Love ‘Em or Lose ‘Em (over 800,000 copies sold)! We talked about the newly released sixth edition of her book and lessons from her award-winning career.

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Dr. Beverly Kaye’s name is recognized internationally as a professional dedicated to helping individuals, managers, and organizations understand the practical “how-to” principles of employee development, engagement, and retention. Her books and learning materials have stood the test of time.

In 2018, ATD honored her with their Lifetime Achievement Award, recognizing her advanced knowledge and extensive practice across the talent development field, her thought leadership, and her contributions to the profession. ISA (The Association of Learning Professionals) also honored her with their 2018 Thought Leadership Award for her body of work supporting work-related learning and performance has significantly influenced people and organizations. Beverly’s books include Love ‘Em or Lose ‘Em, Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go, Hello Stay Interviews, Goodbye Talent Loss, and Up is Not the Only Way. In 2019, Beverly was recognized by the Institute for Management Studies (IMS) with its Lifetime Achievement Award.

Website
https://bevkaye.com/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bevkaye/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/BeverlyLKaye

Leadership Quote
” We don’t receive wisdom. We must discover it ourselves, after a journey that no one can take from us or spare us.” – Marcel Proust

Get Your Copy of Beverly’s Book!
https://bevkaye.com/books/

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Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, masterful facilitation, and motivational speaking.Today, I’d like to talk about how we develop talent in organizations, the talent cycle. I have an expert with me today that says you love them or lose them. That expert is none other than the internationally recognized Dr. Beverly Kaye. Dr. Beverly Kaye is internationally recognized as a professional dedicated to helping individuals, managers and organizations understand the practical how-to principles of employee development, engagement and retention. She has been honored with lifetime achievement awards from two major organizations and has received lifetime achievement awards from major organizations such as ATD – the Association for Talent Development, and ISA, the Association for Learning Professionals.

Dr. Kaye, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Well, thank you, Eddie. It is a pleasure to be here.

Eddie Turner:

I am simply thrilled to have you here. You are someone who throughout my career I have heard about, certainly, the title of your books but the honor to finally meet you and be with you is truly, truly wonderful. Can you tell my listeners who are not familiar with your name, the few that don’t know, a little bit more about your background?

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Sure. I came to this world of Human Resources not in really a planful way, I guess. And that’s sad to say for someone who specializes in career development but I have always been interested in how people choose careers and how they often think there’s one path to a career that I set up in my head that I want and they don’t often have contingency plans. And I spent a number of years as a college dean in elite institutions and I watched really smart kids not be able to make their career go the way they wanted to. And when I had a chance to go back for my doctorate, I chose career development in organizations as my doctoral thesis and I began to look at how organizations do or don’t really grow their people. And out of all of that came my first book which was called Up Is Not the Only Way and I am still singing that song that individuals have to look at multiple ways to move and grow in their careers and the vertical move is simply just one of them. And all the interest in careers got me interested in why people stay and why people go. And I learned that people leave organizations if they don’t see a career path for themselves. And that moved me into the world of engagement and retention. And the book that is most recent and in its sixth edition with like 8,00,000 copies out there is titled Love Them or Lose Them: Getting Good People to Stay and it is about different ways to show that you love your employees even if you don’t use that word. It’s just the best word I know because it means so many things. So, treat your people well and you have a chance of keeping them.

Eddie Turner:

Now, you said a lot there and I want to unpack a couple of those. One of those titles that you mentioned is one that I feel is so important, I think they’re all important, but especially this when you say Up Is Not the Only Way. The subtitle that you have on that book is Rethinking Career Mobility.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Right.

Eddie Turner:

And, yes, so many people have been told “Pick a lane. Stay there. Up is the only way to go. And don’t try to be a jack of all trades, don’t try to explore your passions” and other advice that people may give but you say the exact opposite.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Right. I think if we only could separate the word ‘career’ from the word ‘development’. I think when we attach those two words, it starts us thinking about the vertical career path. If we just use the word ‘development’, it’s all about growth. And I can grow in a myriad of different ways. I can grow by moving laterally. I can grow by staying right where I am and growing in place, enriching. I can even grow by moving down into something else that could get me a whole new start in a new area or maybe I’m one of those technical people promoted to management who says “Oh my gosh, this is not what I thought it was. Get me back to my wonderful technical work.” And if organizations don’t realize all those paths and make them viable, then they will lose precious talent.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. And you don’t have to get locked into one career. You can and should have contingency plans. And so, that’s just a fascinating title and the content that supports it. Now, your titles, not just that book, here are some of the other titles. You’ve mentioned Love Them or Leave Them but you also have Love It, Don’t Leave It: Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go. I just simply love these because coming up with the title is perhaps the hardest part of writing a book.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

It is. It is. And I work with a publisher who taught me that the title, not even the subtitle, the title has to tell the story of the entire book. And so, the struggle to find, just looking at the title alone, should teach you the lesson that you want to teach like Up Is Not the Only Way, like Love Them or Lose Them, etc. So, they all kind of do that. And you’re right, it’s the title that the whole book hangs on.

Eddie Turner:

Bev, I wish I knew you when I wrote my first book. My title, I look back at it now, and I’m not as excited about it especially when I look at your titles. So, you’re right. It does tell a story just in the title before you get to the subtitle. And then of course you have that content inside that supports it. Would you say that the titles have played a part in the longevity of your work?

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

I hadn’t thought about that but I think so because my major books in career development have stayed alive for four decades. And this Love Them or Lose Them book has been around for 20 years, six editions. So, maybe people remember the title and that gives credence to the book.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed. And sixth edition which just was released, when?

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

March.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. So, you just released the sixth edition, 20 years it’s been out, sold over 800,000 copies globally in almost 30 different languages.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Right.

Eddie Turner:

Fascinating.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

So, everybody would know how to love them by now, huh?

Eddie Turner:

Yes, you would think so but if they had learned, you wouldn’t have had to make five revisions. So, what’s keeping people from applying this the way they should?

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

The age old “I’m too busy” and “I have so much on my plate. I have more pressure than ever. I can’t make time.” It’s like I always think managers have the will but not always the skill. And so, we have to give them the skills in ways that they say “That’s not so hard. I could do that.” So, in all the workshops we’ve done around the globe, I want any manager sitting there to say “Hey, that’s not so hard.” And the same thing with the work we’ve done for employees, I want the employee to say “I could do that. I could try that. That’s not so insurmountable.” So, I love making things practical and memorable and I have the theory but I like to build practical on top of the theory.

Eddie Turner:

So, managers have the will but not the skill. So, you make it practical so that it’s memorable.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Right.

Eddie Turner:

And you’ve practiced what you’ve preached because you have had this career yourself, as you mentioned, where you were a professor, where you were a dean and you are now one of the most sought-after thought leaders who spend every week on the road carrying your message near and far.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Well, I’m one of many thought leaders who do that and I’m lucky that the subjects I’ve picked happen to be evergreen. And so, I thank my lucky stars that they’ve stayed evergreen.

Eddie Turner:

And something else that I noticed when we were talking about your work, the word ‘love’ is prominently featured – Love Them or Leave Them; love it, don’t leave it. You said earlier that that’s just the only word you know how to use. What’s behind that?

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Well, 20 years ago, when we said we wanted the title to have ‘love’, it our publisher said “Can’t you find another word? Do you think that on a business shelf that men will walk in and buy a book on love?” And we said “It is the only word that stands for so much. It stands for recognize them, thank them, reward them, listen to them, acknowledge them.” And on the back of the book, it says “Admit it you love them even if you don’t use that word.”

Eddie Turner:

Oh wow!

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

They are your talent. They are your diverse talent. And they are important to you for meeting your own goals.

Eddie Turner:

Well, you were onto something, Bev. And, obviously, time and sales have proven that you were onto something. And our dear friend who we were together at the Marshall Goldsmith annual meeting, the first one in 2020, before the whole world changed, and our dear friend Alan Mulally spoke and you say “Love them or leave them,” Alan said to love them up when he was talking about the work that he did to change organizations.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Right. And I just have to say it’s “love them or lose them.” It’s not “Love them or leave them.” And there’s a big difference because sometimes we lose people and they stay and they are not engaged and they lose their motivation and then staying is not so good.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you for correcting me. And that shows my poor writing because when I wrote my notes, for whatever silly reason, I wrote it wrong. Thank you.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

The employee book is Love It, Don’t Leave It.

Eddie Turner:

Yes.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

So, give your job a chance. Don’t jump ship before you’ve really thought about why you’re going and what you want elsewhere. So, it’s a very easy mistake to make and plenty of people make it. The other part of the title is Getting Good People to Stay. And I am always amazed just in my own career, my own work how many organizations define good as their top 10%, their high potentials. And I think we have to look at the entirety of our talent market and not just say “Its high potentials that we want to love.” I think there’s buried treasure out there.

Eddie Turner:

That’s a good way of looking at it. Buried treasure.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Buried treasure.

Eddie Turner:

Now, obviously, that comes from the GE world, I spent 10 years at GE, and that was the Jack Welch mantra and people have found years later that maybe that wasn’t the best way of looking at it. So, I really appreciate what you’re saying here.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Good, good.

Eddie Turner:

Well, we are talking to the internationally known author, speaker, thought leader Dr. Beverly Kaye. We are talking about the talent development, career development and her book Love Them or Lose Them: Getting Good People to Stay. It’s a never-ending message that has been sustained for over 20 years.We’ll have more from Dr. Beverly Kaye right after this.

This is Greg Williams, the master negotiator and body language expert and you’re listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

We’re back, everyone. I’m talking to Dr. Beverly Kaye, an internationally known and recognized, respected authority on what it takes to retain employees, develop employees and she has been talking about this as a keynote speaker, writing about it for over 20 years with her main title Love Them or Lose Them, being translated in almost 30 different languages, more than 800,000 copies have been sold.Well, Bev, before we took the break you were talking about the different books that you have written and what those messages are and one of them that you mentioned was “Love It, don’t Leave It” because sometimes people regret making the decision to leave too soon. I’ve never had that experience. So, tell me what is it that people regret?

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Well, I think they don’t think of everything they’re leaving. I think they don’t think of the camaraderie they’ve built in their organization and their work unit. I don’t think they think about the fact that they’ve learned how to negotiate their own organization, how to get what they need when they need it and take some negotiating. And I think we think we can just jump into the new climate, the new adventure with ease. And it takes time. That’s why so many companies are investing right now in onboarding and re-boarding and all of that. So, I think we do make hasty decisions. And Love It, Don’t Leave It came to be when managers said to us “Is all of this on our shoulders? Are we the ones who have to engage?” and we said “Oh my gosh, no. People have to learn to ask for what they want and engage themselves.” So, it is a two-way street.

Eddie Turner:

Everyone doesn’t know how to ask though. Do you have suggestions?

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Well, it’s interesting, both books are written according to the alphabet with 26 ideas that come from our research and A is for Ask. And the interesting thing for managers is ask your people what you can do to keep them, ask your people what they love most about their job. Don’t ask them what you can do to keep them at the exit interview. So, Ask is primary to every single other strategy. As I said, on the individual side, if you don’t ask, your manager can’t read your mind. So, if you’re finding that the work you’re doing is not using the best of you, then you have to ask and tell what it is you want to be doing more of. So, on both sides, I think, Ask is critical.

Eddie Turner:

I am so glad you brought that out. I have long said, when it comes to exit interviews, that I think you ought to consider having about to exit interviews with people because we wait until a person is leaving and find out what we could have done differently when it’s too late now that talent goes across the street to the competition or in some cases goes out and forms its own competitive organization against this company that they were leaving.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Absolutely. And the other book that’s out there is a book called Stay Interviews. And it’s one that we wrote based on that Ask chapter. So, we say have a stay interview and have it constantly and ask your people why they stay before they come in to say “I’m going.”

Eddie Turner:

Excellent.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Very important.

Eddie Turner:

And the other reason why I’ve long had strong feelings about exit interviews is that in some cases, the data isn’t really used. The departments that capture it are not following up and saying “Hey, here’s what’s happening with this individual. How can we keep this from happening in the future?” Too often it’s either discarded or discounted.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Exactly, exactly. And in many of the companies that we’ve consulted to, we’ve had managers do Alas clinics like “Alas, we lost him. What could we have done?” and actually talk about what they might have done. And without that debrief, it happens over and over and over.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed, indeed. So, what’s been the best story that’s come back that someone’s wrote you about and told you how reading one of your books has changed your life or how it helped them make a better decision?

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

There’s a chapter in Love Them about values. And there is a part of what we do in career development around values. And I’ve had people come back to me, who have been through a workshop and done a values exercise, and say they’ve kept it for years and looked at it from time to time to say “Is the work I’m doing meeting my values?” And for some, it’s been “No, it’s not. It’s time I may be looked around.” And for others “Yes, it still is.” Although the values are the same but they’re getting met in some new ways. So, I think I’ve had value conversations with people who have read my books or gone through our workshops years ago and that always thrills me.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. You’ve written so many books. Is there one that people should start with? Should they start with Love Them or Lose Them or should they start with one of the others?

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

I don’t know. I think Love Them, in it is tucked in everything else. So, maybe that’s the most comprehensive because when you love them, you develop their careers; when you love them, you build their self-worth; when you love them, you keep them. So, maybe it’s the best one to start with.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. Thank you for confirming that for those who would be wondering which of these should they pick up first. Now, your career has spanned across four decades. You’ve worked with the top thought leaders in the world. Just tell us a little bit about an occasion where perhaps you’ve collaborated with one of these great thought leaders Marshall Goldsmith, Sally Hegelson, any of these people and you feel like “Wow! We did something pretty special there.”

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Well, I am very lucky that I’ve grown up with the field and many of my friends have grown up with me in the field and they have written books and they have become famous and everyone in their own plot of land. And I love seeing Sally’s work and Marshall’s work and Jim Cruz’s work and all of them become used over time. And I have been very lucky to be with a group of thought leaders that keep me thinking and keep me growing and doing and not just through the good times but through those darn bad times as well, which we have all had plenty of.

Eddie Turner:

All of you all have contributed to a whole generation of us learning, growing, developing. And so, now we have to see what the future holds because you all are going to be a tough group to top.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Well, it’s your turn now.

Eddie Turner:

I like how you turned that around. I was perhaps trying to address anyone of the 80 countries this podcast is downloaded in to pick up the mantle. You put it on me, Bev. Okay.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Yeah, yeah.

Eddie Turner:

That’s a nice curveball you throw at me. All right, I’ll take it. Well, Bev, tell me please what’s the main message you’d like to leave our listeners with of today’s show?

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

You made me, when I filled out your form, think of a quote that was a favorite quote and I sent you a quote by Marcel Proust that goes like this. “We don’t receive wisdom. We must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us.” And I think in every valley that I’ve been through in my life, I’ve learned from it. And while the valleys seem like they’ll never end, they do. And when you come out, you do come out with new wisdom. So, I have that quote hanging on my bulletin board.

Eddie Turner:

That is a wonderful quote indeed.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Thank you.

Eddie Turner:

And where can my listeners learn more about you?

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

I’ve got a website BevKaye.com and I am once again a solopreneur having sold my company but I still do all that work and would welcome people to come visit the website.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. So, we’ll put your website, we’ll put your LinkedIn profile and Twitter and all that into the show notes so people can click on it and have easy access to you. If you are not already following Bev Kaye, I encourage you to do so. Follow her on Twitter, connect with her on LinkedIn, visit her website, download one of those books, two of the books, three of the books, get all five because she truly is a thought leader to follow, to learn from.And, Bev, I am just so grateful to you for being a guest today on the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Dr. Beverly Kaye:

Thank you. it really has been a pleasure. I mean, everybody says it’s been a pleasure but I really mean it. It has been a pleasure. So, thank you.

Eddie Turner:

Well, I feel the same way. Thank you, Bev.And thank you for listening. That concludes this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 113 | Love ‘Em or Lose ‘Em | Beverly Kaye appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 112 | Trust Yourself as a Leader | Melody Wilding

admin — Mon, 21 Jun 2021 10:32:40 +0000

Melody Wilding
Executive Coach to Sensitive Strivers® and HBR Contributor
Trust Yourself as a Leader

Episode Summary
Brene Brown gave readers the courage to be vulnerable. Susan Cain reminded introverts of the power of being quiet. In 2021, Melody Wilding has emerged as the expert reframing the intersection of ambition and sensitivity as a strength! Listen to this episode to learn how to Trust yourself!

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Melody Wilding, LMSW, is an executive coach, human behavior expert, and author of Trust Yourself: Stop Overthinking and Channel Your Emotions for Success at Work. She has coached hundreds of private clients, from CEOs and Fortune 500 executives to leaders from the US Department of Education, the Federal Reserve, and the United Nations. She teaches graduate-level human behavior and psychology at the Silberman School of Social Work at Hunter College in New York. Her writing is regularly featured on Medium and in Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Forbes, Business Insider, and Quartz. Her advice has been featured in the New York Times, The Cut, Oprah Magazine, NBC News, US News, and World Report, and more.

Website
https://melodywilding.com/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/melodywilding/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/MelodyWilding

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/melodywildinglmsw

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/melodywilding/

Leadership Quote
“Don’t wait to be praised, anointed, or validated. Don’t wait for someone to give you permission to lead.” –– Tara Mohr

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Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, masterful facilitation, and motivational speaking.Brené Brown gave readers the courage to be vulnerable. Susan Kane reminded introverts of the power of being quiet. In 2021, Melody Wilding has emerged as the expert reframing the intersection of ambition and sensitivity as a strength. I am excited to delve into that with Melody Wilding. Melody Wilding is an executive coach and human behavior expert. She is the author of Trust Yourself: Stop Overthinking and Channel Your Emotions for Success at Work. She’s been featured in the Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Forbes, Business Insider, New York Times, NBC News, and Oprah Magazine, just to name a few.

Melody, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Melody Wilding:

It’s a pleasure to be here with you. Thank you so much for having me.

Eddie Turner:

Oh, I am just delighted to have you, Melody. Melody, It’s not often that I have a guest or have someone who listens to the show approach me and say “Listen, you’ve got to interview someone who I am interested in having you talk to” and that is Fred Amador. He’s a friend of the Keep Leading!® Podcast and typically, I’m really picky about who I have on the show and when I looked at your materials, I was fascinated and I said “Yes, I must interview her.” So, Melody, tell our listeners a few things about you that I did not mention in the opening.

Melody Wilding:

Yes. So, you covered some of the biggest hits in terms of my professional background but where a lot of my work intersects, as you were talking about the intersection of ambition and sensitivity, in my new book Trust Yourself what I’ve done is put a label on that personality and talk about what I call a sensitive striver. And that moniker comes as much from my professional experience as it does from my personal experiences. So, I am this sensitive striver personality myself. I am someone who all my life has been very driven, career oriented, wanted to check all of the boxes and make sure I was doing everything right and be successful but also highly sensitive in that I am a deep thinker and feeler and always have been. And that combination of traits, when leveraged correctly, can be our superpower, makes us observant, perceptive, deep thinkers and contributors but many of us are not given the right tools to understand our sensitivity and ambition, especially not leverage it in the workplace and as leaders. And so, this work I am doing today with sensitive strivers is as much a product of my personal background as it is my professional background.

Eddie Turner:

So, the two have collided.

Melody Wilding:

Absolutely.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. Yeah, when you use that phrase sensitive strivers, which you own, it’s your registered trademark, what’s the reaction, especially of men?

Melody Wilding:

That’s an interesting question. I have to say what’s been something I did not expect as I’ve talked more about sensitivity over the past few years is that the number of men in my community, especially male leaders, has grown substantially. And I think that’s because I think we’re starting to see a shift overall in the culture of leadership in our workplaces where we are starting to embrace more emotionality and taking more of a human-centered approach to work but, I think, talk talking about sensitivity, writing about it for places like Forbes and Harvard Business Review gave a lot of men permission to say “Actually, you know what, I am a very compassionate, heart-led deep-feeling leader. That’s who I am.” And so, that has been a really interesting side effect of talking about sensitivity that I did not anticipate in the slightest.

Eddie Turner:

That’s really good to hear. Would you say, Melody, that you’ve seen, you talked about this change and how people are responding to the phrase and how they’re responding to that quality, would you say that perhaps we’ve rewarded the wrong qualities for far too long and people are just ready for this and it’s the right time that your work is coming out?

Melody Wilding:

Yeah, I think what we saw was an emphasis on qualities in the workplace that lead to quick results, right? Being harsh, being mean, that sort of “I say jump and you ask how high” command and control mentality tends to get results quickly but I think what we’ve seen especially in the last 10-15 years or so is that the long-term consequence of that is that it leads to disengagement, burnout among your people, low retention and high turnover. And so, now, I think we’re starting to see that sea change where we see those consequences and now we’re starting to embrace this different view of what leadership can be being much more sensitive and empathetic and human-centered but I also think it’s colliding with some of the trends of technology and certainly the pandemic has accelerated so much of that where we bring all of ourselves to work now because there is no separation between work and life anymore, there’s such a blend between the two.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed, now more than ever. As you said, the pandemic has allowed qualities to come out that we perhaps would not have allowed to come out pre-pandemic or would have taken far longer to emerge and we’re more accepting of it.

Melody Wilding:

Exactly. We’re seeing people now taking Zoom calls from their bedrooms or having their little kids or their pets barge in. And so, yes, and we’re seeing people at their best and at their worst.

Eddie Turner:

Now, people have said that being sensitive is a bad trait. What do you say about that in your book?

Melody Wilding:

I say that we need to reclaim the word ‘sensitive’ and that is one reason why I termed it ‘Sensitive Striver’ and not ‘Empathetic High Achiever’ or something else. I didn’t want to dance around the word ‘sensitive’. And also, what I think people misunderstand about sensitivity, you use the word ‘trait’ which is very accurate, that sensitivity is a biological disposition and we don’t often realize that. We think it’s just a quality. We don’t see it and respect it as a personality trait just like introversion or extroversion. And so, people who are sensitive actually have different neurological wiring. Their brain lights up in different areas that are related to things like attention, planning for action, making connections and synthesizing information. And what I found really remarkable is if any of our listeners out there are sensitive, you may feel like you are a person who is a sponge. You can feel the feelings of people around you. And the neuroscience points to why that is a fact, which is because sensitive people have more active mirror neurons which are our empathy neurons. So, we are scanning the environment we are attuning to and noticing the nuances in people’s behavior which can be a tremendous asset. And so, I want to sort of correct that misunderstanding that sensitivity is a flaw when actually it’s an evolutionary advantage that has persisted because it helped a certain amount of the population, about 15% to 20% or one in five people, survive and really come out ahead in situations.

Eddie Turner:

And by using this phrase ‘Sensitive Strivers’, you’re saying it’s not just about owning it and being happy to accept it but it’s something to strive for. I love that. Do you have any tips for people who want to start to be more sensitive in a positive way?

Melody Wilding:

Yes. I think especially now what we can focus on is active listening. So often so many of us think we’re listening but we’re not. We’re in our own heads thinking about that email we have to send or that to-do we need to check off our list and we’re not actually paying attention to what is happening right in front of us and really attuning to and being present with that person. So, better active listening means asking more informed questions, what and how questions – “How did that make you feel? How did this come about? What is your perspective on this situation?” – taking the conversation deeper. And many times, active listening sounds like saying nothing at all, sounds like being silent, letting there be dead air instead of anxiously talking over them. And I see this a lot with managers and leaders with their direct reports that perhaps they’ll be in a one-on-one and they will just be talking, talking, talking, talking, talking and not leaving a moment of pause for their direct report to jump in or if their direct report shares something difficult or a challenge that they’re having, the manager automatically jumps in to help and try to fix the situation and “Let me figure out how to solve this” rather than leaving a moment of pause where the person could go deeper, where they may start coming up with solutions and ideas themselves. And so, that type of active listening is one way we can be much more sensitive and present with everyone around us.

Eddie Turner:

Active listening, step one. If we listen better, we will ask better questions. Thank you for explaining that. And if a person is not really sure how to listen better so that they can ask those better questions and not monopolize and dominate the conversation, where could they learn more about that?

Melody Wilding:

I have some resources on my website in terms of listening more effectively, questions that you can ask people. One of my favorite books on this topic that I think is so underestimated in the leadership world is Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg, I believe. Fantastic game-changing book about communication, about listening. It will change the way that you communicate with people.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you. And some people feel like “I’m really not showing up the way that I should or the way that I want to.” They feel like an imposter. What does your work reveal about that?

Melody Wilding:

Yes, imposter syndrome is the number one challenge that sensitive stivers come to me with and is particularly common the higher you rise and the further you advance because the pressure that you’re under tends to increase as does the ambiguity and uncertainty. The path is not as clear anymore. So, it’s much easier to read into situations and think “Oh my gosh, I have no idea what I’m doing here and everyone’s going to find that out” which is the core of imposter syndrome. So, very common for sensitive strivers because we tend to have a really deep thought. We are so self-aware that we tend to become self-conscious. So, whenever I’m working with clients around this, the first place we always have to start is by interrupting the negative self-talk that comes along with imposter syndrome, the self-talk that says you’re not good enough, you have no idea what you’re doing, everyone’s going to find out and they’re going to fire you, all of that negative self-talk that our mind automatically defaults to. One really powerful way to interrupt that is by naming your inner critic, giving that imposter syndrome a voice a name a moniker, an identity that is separate from you. So, personifying it. You can call it The Little Monster. Mine is called Bozo. I have one client who calls it his Darth Vader and he got a Darth Vader lego action figure to sit on his desk and it was just a helpful reminder that every time his negative chatter would start up in a board meeting or in all-hands meeting, he would be able to look at it and say “Not today, Darth” and put it in its place. So, that is first and foremost, really being able to recognize and interrupt the negative talk track of imposter syndrome.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. Wonderful example.I’m talking to Melody Wilding. She is the coach to sensitive strivers and the author of Trust Yourself: Stop Overthinking and Channel Your Emotions for Success at Work. We’ll have more with Melody right after this.

This is Dave Sanderson. You may know me from the last passenger off US Airways Flight 1549, The Miracle on the Hudson from the movie Sully and you’re listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

I’m back talking to the amazing Melody Wilding. She’s the coach to sensitive strivers. Her book Trust Yourself: Stop Overthinking and Channel Your Emotions for Success at Work is the foundation of our conversation today and we want leaders to trust themselves. They second guess themselves too often as we discover as coaches. So, Melody, can you tell us how does being a sensitive striver, as we discussed before the break, relate to trusting yourself as a leader?

Melody Wilding:

Sensitive strivers, if any listeners are sensitive, you like me have probably been told your entire life that you take things too personally, you need to grow a thicker skin. And so, from a very young age, people who are sensitive high achievers, sensitive strivers internalize messages that “We’re not okay as we are. We can’t trust our own thinking and judgments.” And this further gets compounded by the ambition piece – “We want to succeed” – that sometimes we become so addicted and so dependent on external validation, on praise from other people, on pleasing others and doing things that will make us look likable in their eyes. So, many times sensitive strivers can be so spread thin and so led astray in their professional lives because they’re trying to please everyone else and make everybody else happy. And so, that is exactly why the book is called Trust Yourself because that is the outcome, that is the results I want for every person in this book. And every sensitive striver I have worked with over the past 10 years, the number one skill that helps them achieve what they want to achieve is greater self-trust, hands down.

Eddie Turner:

Greater self-trust. And when we don’t trust ourselves, is that where the overthinking comes in?

Melody Wilding:

100%. Second guessing, rumination or worse, going back on your decisions, letting louder, more dominant aggressive voices dominate and drown out yours.

Eddie Turner:

That’s one I don’t think about often but you’re right. I often think about being afraid to make a decision or paralysis through analysis and decision making but you’re right – “Okay, I finally made the decision but I’m not sure I made the right one. Let me go back and redo it.”

Melody Wilding:

Right, exactly. Backtracking.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, and that costs leaders not only on a personal level but specifically in the organizational context, there’s a real financial cost to the organization.

Melody Wilding:

Absolutely, as is there not listening to sensitive strivers. And if I may, I can give you a short story about this that might drive that point home.

Eddie Turner:

Please.

Melody Wilding:

So, sensitive strivers, as I mentioned, are very observant, perceptive because of the way our minds process information. We tend to make connections before other people. So, my clients are those leaders in the room who tend to be one or two steps ahead of other people to see “Oh, here’s why this strategy is not going to work” which on the upside saves really valuable time and money. So, I’ll give you the example of one of my clients. I will call her Rebecca. She was a research and development director at a pharmaceutical company. Her company was seeking to acquire another smaller firm. And Rebecca saw instantly that this was not going to turn out. Well, it was going to be a debacle for their operations. It was going to completely back them up. And so, Rebecca went to the CEO and the COO and said “I want to give you a warning that I see this coming” and they blasted right past her and went through with the acquisition anyway. And exactly as she predicted, it was a disaster and actually led to the firing of the COO because it turned out so poorly. And the CEO came back to Rebecca and said “You know, if I had only listened to you, I would have saved my reputation” because it was a black mark on the company in the industry. And he specifically said to her “I wish I had more people like you who were so sensitive and observant of what was happening and perceptive and I should have listened to you.” And so, if that doesn’t underscore the business cost of not recognizing and valuing and listening to sensitive strivers, I don’t know what does.

Eddie Turner:

That underscores it quite nicely. Thank you for that story that lets it really stick with us a lot better than just the anecdote alone. Now, as I think about something else that you talk about in the book, we are often told to do what makes us happy. You argue we should do what we’re suited for. What’s the difference?

Melody Wilding:

In many ways, I think, one leads to the other. I think that doing what you’re suited for leads to greater happiness because what the research shows is that when we have a role that matches our personality, we experience greater job satisfaction, we are more effective, productive. We earn more because of all of that. And so, I think one leads to the other.

Eddie Turner:

Okay. And when I think about where we are in the stream of time, what we’ve gone through as a country, as a global community with the pandemic, how can sensitive strivers and those who are developing the ability to trust themselves as leaders, how can they improve in this specific area post pandemic?

Melody Wilding:

In terms of focusing on matching your professional life better with your personality, I think this is a great time to be reassessing what your needs are because we really have an opportunity. We’re in transition and transition always presents opportunity for change, right? So, it’s a great opportunity to reassess now that we’re coming out of the pandemic, what over the past year actually did work for you and what didn’t. So, for example, many of my clients actually found the switch to working from home to be very advantageous for them because as sensitive strivers, about 70% of sensitive people are also introverted, meaning they need time, they need downtime, they need concentrated time and sensitive strivers in general need more space to process. And so, being at home gave many people much more control over their surroundings to really dictate their day and where and how they were working. So, in the book, I actually have a chapter on finding the right fit. And in there, I take readers through different criteria to assess whether your job is the right fit for you now, the first one being that idea of physical needs, your workspace, what does it look like, how much stimulation is there, how quickly are things moving. The next would be relational needs – what types of relationships do you need to have in the workplace to feel like you are fulfilled and you are giving your best. Then we get on to organizational needs which is what type of company motivates you, their mission, their impact, the type of leaders that they have. Then we move on to health and lifestyle needs which touches on flexibility, how often do you need to take breaks, when would you start work, when would you end work. And then finally at the tippy top of the pyramid, we have learning and performance needs and this is looking at in your role, what are your special gifts and talents, what further competencies do you want to develop and how can you get better at applying those in your current role.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. And then when you think about the relationships, friendships, professional or otherwise, it makes me think about something I heard someone say recently and I can’t remember who said it or what context, so I can’t make proper attribution, but they said “Decide which relationships are post-pandemic worthy.”

Melody Wilding:

That’s a great way to put it. I love that idea.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah. Now, along the lines of what you said there, what about if I’ve had setbacks during the pandemic? What can I do to get my confidence back and trust in myself as a leader and be a sensitive striver?

Melody Wilding:

Sure. And you know what was interesting is the pandemic hit just as I was finishing this manuscript and actually pretty much around the time when I was working on the chapter in the book on bouncing back from setbacks. So, it was this really unique timing where I actually went back through the book several times and looked at it for how can we reframe and offer strategies that are going to work in this new world. And so, this idea of coming back from setbacks, in the book I offer a three-step process that really builds on a lot of the other learnings from the book. So, first is to rest. I think many times as sensitive strivers we want to fix. We want to keep doing. We think we can act and think our way through problems. And many times, we need to just separate ourselves from the problems. We need to take a break and ground ourselves, reset our nervous system, manage and pay attention to our thinking because our thinking is going to guide our actions. So, that’s the first step is rest, take a step back. Next would be reflect. And I think we’re seeing a lot of people do that now where they are thinking about, as we re-emerge from the pandemic, reflecting on “What are the lessons that I’ve learned? How have I grown? How do I want to be different in this new phase?” So, specifically, in the book, I touch a lot on the idea of giving yourself permission, where do you need to give yourself more permission to succeed, to fail, for example, where do you need to be listening and consulting your intuition, how can you return back to your core values and how are those guiding your life and the decisions you’re making about your work going forward. And then, finally, we have Recalibrate. This is where you take action. So, now that you have rested, you have reflected, now with different insights, you can take different steps forward. So, recommitting to reassessing our goals, adjusting them as needed. I think the pandemic has really taken people off autopilot and made people realize that “Maybe I don’t want to be doing as much as I have been. Maybe I want to be doing less but better” and rebuilding our boundaries. You were talking about which people in our life are post-pandemic worthy and I have seen people become so much more … they respect their own time much more and are much more willing to say “No, I’m sorry. I can’t commit to that right now.” And I think people have also become much more understanding of that. So, really recommitting to reassessing your boundaries. The last point under Recalibrate would be thinking about changing the game, thinking about if you want to make a bigger switch, how can you adjust, how can you take those criteria that I mentioned in terms of finding work that’s a better fit and start to make some incremental changes to make your work life be a better fit for who you are and your needs as a sensitive striver.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. And so, if anyone is wondering, in the book, that is under the section Sustained Self-Growth: Bounce Back from Setbacks. What a fascinating chapter. What is the main message you would like to make sure our listeners leave our conversation with today, Melody?

Melody Wilding:

That sensitivity when managed correctly can be your greatest strength and asset.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you. And I’d love to know on the Keep Leading!® Podcast, what’s the best piece of advice or quote that you use that helps you, Melody, to keep leading.

Melody Wilding:

Never put off once-in-a-lifetime moments for work that can be done tomorrow.

Eddie Turner:

I love that. Thank you. Where can my listeners learn more about you?

Melody Wilding:

You can find me at MelodyWilding.com. There you can learn more about the book. You can also find the book wherever books are sold.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. And what I will do is make sure there are links to your social media profiles to your book, your main website of course, in the show notes to make it easy for people to connect with you, follow you, read your book and stay connected. You’re so fascinating and I am so happy that you have come on the Keep Leading!® Podcast to share your knowledge with our listeners.

Melody Wilding:

It was so much fun. Thank you for having me.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you, Melody.And thank you for listening. That concludes this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 112 | Trust Yourself as a Leader | Melody Wilding appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 111 | Leading Behind the Lens | John DeMato

admin — Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:28:51 +0000

John DeMato
Photographer & Visual Story Expert
Leading Behind the Lens

Episode Summary
When I signed a copy of my book for John DeMato, I said: “You make moments matter with your amazing work!” I later realized John displays a form of leadership I had not considered before—leadership behind his camera lens. I sat down with John to discuss why this often-overlooked form of leadership matters.

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
John DeMato is a branded lifestyle portrait + virtual photographer who collaborates with expert-based business owners to create an emotional connection with their audiences through persuasive visual storytelling.

More than just a photographer, John sets his clients up for success beyond the portrait session by strategizing with them on how to best leverage their image content for every touchpoint across their online presence – website, social media, presentations, digital ads, blogs, etc.

John spent more than 20 years working as a television producer for Maury, Yahoo, reality shows, and private corporate clients. John is a C-Suite Network Advisor and a Photography Sponsor for the NYC Chapter of the National Speakers Association. He also educates photographers on creating a memorable online presence as a guest contributor for several photography websites.

Website
https://www.johndemato.com/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/johndemato/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/dematophoto

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/john.a.demato/

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/dematophoto/

Leadership Quote
The best way to lead and influence others to get past what’s holding them back? Show, don’t tell.

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Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

The key to sustainable leadership lies in the ability to thrive during uncertainty, ambiguity, and change. Grand Heron International brings you the Coaching Assistance Program, giving your employees on-demand coaching to manage through a challenging situation and arrive at a solution. Visit GrandHeronInternational.Ca/Podcast to learn more.

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, facilitation, and professional speaking.One of the principles of the Keep Leading!® Podcast is that almost everyone has the capacity to lead. To that end, I explore different facets of leadership on this show. Today, I will share a different type of leadership. I’m calling this Leading Behind the Lens. I’m going to interview John DeMato. After John did work for me, I wrote a note in the book I signed for him that said “You make moments matter.” How does John make moments matter? John is a branded lifestyle portrait and virtual photographer who collaborates with expert-based business owners to create an emotional connection with their audiences through persuasive visual storytelling.

Here to tell us more is John DeMato. John, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

John DeMato:

Well, thank you, Eddie. And after that wonderful intro, I am even happier to be here. Thanks for having me.

Eddie Turner:

Well, John, tell me a little bit more about yourself.

John DeMato:

Sure. So, as you mentioned, I work with experts, speakers, trainers, authors, consultants, different types of business owners, some in the executive suite and what we try to do is capture image content that visually punctuates the sentiment of every single story they want to tell, whether it’s a story of vulnerability all the way up to and including moments of joy and success and happiness and everything in between.

Eddie Turner:

Now, that’s what you do but what about you. Tell me about John.

John DeMato:

Me? I’m just some crazy kid from Astoria, Queens, that one day decided that working for someone else wasn’t my cup of tea anymore. So, I decided to jump out the window, quit my job and start a business while never having the thought of starting a business prior to that point.

Eddie Turner:

And here you are.

John DeMato:

Here I am.

Eddie Turner:

Now, you refer to it as branded lifestyle photography. What is that?

John DeMato:

Branded lifestyle portrait photography is the image content that acts as a fly on the wall. It’s candid photography that captures my clients’ day-to-day activities so that it gives their audience the opportunity to get a sense of what working with them looks like, what brainstorming ideas looks like for my clients, to give their audience the opportunity to get an entry point into their life, to give them an opportunity to engage their content. We want to create relationships as business owners, especially as expert business owners. And the way to do that is by demystifying your processes for those that you serve. And visually, you can do that by capturing what your world looks like and then offer that up to your audience to give them that understanding.

Eddie Turner:

How is this different from regular photography?

John DeMato:

Well, the difference between a branded lifestyle portrait and say a headshot is that the onus in the headshot is to look directly into the camera. Now, those images are also included in a branded lifestyle portrait session but the stress is on capturing images that allow people a sense to feel welcomed into the frame. So, instead of just looking into the camera which is more of a “look at me” kind of photo – “Hey, everybody, look at me” – It’s more of a “Hey, come with me on my journey as I show you how I can help transform your life” and whatever the area of expertise for that particular person is.

Eddie Turner:

So, more than just a normal head shot. I love your phrase. You invite the viewer into the frame and you’re giving people a glimpse into the person’s daily life, their activities and revealing a different side of them.

John DeMato:

Yes. In addition to that, Eddie, the added layer, the vanilla frosting, if you will, is also illustrating that expert’s personality, areas of their personality through their facial expression and their body language and the way that they’re engaging whatever lifestyle activity that they are participating in while that photo was being taken. So, it not only shows the audience what they do, how they do it and why they do it but it also gives them a sense of who that person is simply based on the emotional sentiment created by that person’s expression and body language. So, it all kind of works together to really inform their audience of what this person’s all about.

Eddie Turner:

If I’m a leader, why does that matter to me?

John DeMato:

As a leader, it’s important to illustrate your expertise. It’s important to illustrate your level of confidence in your own ability to help solve people’s problems in the way in which you solve them. And when you reinforce your powerful words that you share through your content and your website and the way you express yourself on a podcast such as this, the way that you visually punctuate all of those sentiments that you want to impart upon that audience and inspire them to want to learn more about you, to captivate their attention is through the way in which you express those aspects in your image content, through your expression, through your posture as well as, again, the activities in which you’re participating in the photo.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you, John. It’s interesting because we have always heard the phrase “A picture is worth a thousand words.” And that might even be more true today as we live in the world of Instagram or Insta as the young people would say, you don’t say the whole word anymore, right?

John DeMato:

Yeah. No, no, that’s too hard. It’s too difficult to say the extra four letters. Yes, I know.

Eddie Turner:

I just show my age when I say the whole word but it puts an emphasis on what you do for leaders in that of capturing the essence of them in a way that perhaps people are not used to seeing. And I normally say the website at the end of the session but if you are listening to John and I talk right now, I invite you to go to JohnDeMato.com as we’re speaking. Certainly, we’re going to drop the links to the episode so that you can press that on your devices and go directly to it and see exactly what he’s talking about and how John brings people to life.And John, normally I don’t ask people for a client list but in your case, when we’re talking about this, give people just a glimpse of some of the big names you’ve worked with that you’ve helped bring to life.

John DeMato:

Well, I photographed Seth Godin once at an event. I’ve worked with a lot of people in the National Speakers Association, people such as former past president. I photographed Ron Carr speaking. I photographed people like Sylvie de Giusto and Phil Jones and people like that. I’ve also worked with C-Suite folks such as Jeff Hayzlett and dozens and dozens of other experts along the line within both of those communities. And it’s pretty inspiring working with folks that are very successful and very driven and passionate and very generous with their time with other emerging experts coming up the pipeline. So, I’m very lucky. Very grateful.

Eddie Turner:

So, from the biggest names in marketing to the biggest names in the National Speakers Association, the most recognized brand of top speakers in the world belongs to that association, the C-Suite Network where the executives are and where people who serve executives are, you have worked with all of them. In fact, John DeMato has gone from being someone we did not know to being the only person you call when you have an event as a speaker, when you have an event as a facilitator, trainer, coach. He’s the person who we all are using.

John DeMato:

Yeah, it’s pretty cool. Definitely. I have to say, Eddie, it’s been quite a journey. I remember when I first started working as a photography sponsor or volunteering as a photography sponsor for the New York City chapter of the National Speakers Association and what I now know is that I essentially was working with an all-star team of people. And it’s never lost on me how fortunate I am to be in that particular chapter.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, the New York City chapter of National Speakers Association, I’m partial. That’s where you and I met. That’s one of the chapters I belong to. It is the rockstar chapter. I didn’t know that when I joined. I joined because I was on a contract in New York and I couldn’t be a part of my what was at the time my home chapter. And I immediately fell in love with them. They adopted me and took me in. And you and I met as a result. So, I’m even more grateful that I joined that chapter.

John DeMato:

That’s right. And I got a book out of the deal. So, I was pretty psyched about that.

Eddie Turner:

And so, John, when I talk about leading behind the lens, you’re taking the lead and helping leaders present their best self as a leader but you’re leading when you’re working with them and it’s an aspect of leadership that people may not easily recognize because you’re influencing them. Can you talk about that?

John DeMato:

Absolutely. It’s a dance. Any time that I work with someone in front of the camera, there is a dance of establishing rapport and having a conversation going on and essentially getting the person comfortable enough because for many folks, regardless of what their status is, how successful they are, people have certain things that kind of bother them about the way they look. So, one of the things that I work on is put on the psychology hat and work them that way. Another way is having conversations with them to get them comfortable because the effort is made to get someone in a place where their guard is dropped, they are open and receptive to direction, which I give heavy, heavy, heavy amounts of direction in any session that I shoot and get them in a place where they’re revealing authentic honest expressions of aspects of their personality. And there is a lot of work that goes into that. And then on top of that, there is the marketing aspect. I don’t just show up with a camera and start snapping away the shutter button. There is a heavy amount of strategy that goes on beforehand because I need to know what are these photos for, who are your people, what are you all about, what are the nuances and wrinkles in your processes that we can illustrate visually in these photos so that they are the most honest representation of how you live your life and the work that you do for others in service. So, there’s a lot involved before and during the session.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed. And so, you take these people who are used to being in command, being in charge and they really submit themselves to you and the final product is flawless. So, you are exemplifying leading through influence as you lead behind the lens.

John DeMato:

And, Eddie, you know that is true but also one of the things that I’ve noticed is these particular experts, especially the higher up the food chain you go and the level of success that they have, the more open that they are to my direction and the more not only open but encourage it because they don’t want to have to think about how these images are created, there’s a level of trust and that only comes over time through these conversations, through the strategy and through the photos that we’re creating throughout the session. We spot check all these photos throughout because that is what helps build that trust so that they are able to let me do my thing and get what we need for them.

Eddie Turner:

Well done, John. And is there a lesson in this for other photographers who may not see themselves as leaders?

John DeMato:

Yeah. One of the biggest lessons that I had to learn was number one, put the blinders on and stop worrying about what every other photographer is doing because that prevents you from tapping within yourself to find what makes your images uniquely yours and that will have a direct result on the deliverables that you create for your audience. The more that you are in tune with who you are and your own confidence in your work behind the camera, that will naturally elevate the quality of your work to a place that it would not normally go if you just continue to mimic what other photographers are doing. And the other big thing in terms of leadership is to truly understand the problems that you’re solving with the images that you capture. If you do not know what these photos are serving your clients, then it’s basically chasing vanity-driven images and creating pretty photos, absolutely, but if they have no soul, if they have no essence, if they have no purpose, then these photos are best served for a magazine spread and not for your client’s online presence.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you, John.We’re talking to John DeMato. John leads behind the lens as a branded lifestyle portrait photographer. We’ll have more with John right after this.

This is Karen Jacobsen, the GPS Girl, and you have reached your destination because you’re listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

We’re back. I’m talking to John DeMato and we’re talking about how he leads behind the lens as a branded lifestyle portrait photographer.John, before the break we talked about what branded lifestyle photography is and why it matters to leaders and quite frankly, why it’s a form of leadership that many people may not easily recognize. I want to switch gears here just a little bit and talk about something else that you are doing that might matter to many of the people listening to our conversation. Everybody doesn’t have to be a professional photographer. You’ve launched a program where you’re teaching people how to use that iPhone that they have in their hands better to be an everyday photographer. Can you talk about that?

John DeMato:

Sure. It is called Shoot It Yourself: Develop a Portrait Photographer’s Eye with Your Phone. And I launched it earlier this year due largely because of the pandemic because of a lot of people sheltering in place and even as things start to lift, people’s reluctance to have strangers in their house taking photos of them. So, what I wanted to do is create an opportunity for experts and people who really just want to have high-quality self-portraits so that they can use them to promote their business, their services and their brands online but still have a level of artistry to their photos. So, what I did was create a nine-module course that breaks down the bare bone basics of how to take a well-composed image. And I’ve fortunately gotten a lot of positive reception from it. The feedback has been wonderful. There’s been a lot of people that are “Wow! I didn’t even know this was on my phone. I had no idea all I had to do was hit a button.” And I’m like “I know, right?”

Eddie Turner:

Right.

John DeMato:

And essentially, what this is about is geared towards people with smartphones but what they’re really learning is how to take a well-composed photo period, meaning you can take a photo with your phone or a professional camera and you’ll still have the same understanding of how to leverage lighting and composition and locations and all of those very important critical elements to creating a well-composed frame and snap away and feel confident and feel good about the images that you’re sharing.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. And I believe that has tremendous value and I was so excited to see you launch that. I am not you by any stretch of imagination but I still carry a camera when I go places and it never fails that when I want to be in the photo and I hand it to somebody, people look at me like I have two heads and they say “What’s that? What button do I press?” People aren’t used to using regular cameras anymore but everyone has the camera that’s always with them and that’s their phone. You don’t have to give the instructions which button to press. Everybody knows how to take a photo with the mobile device. And so, you’re adding value by helping people get the most out of something that they already have but are not fully maximizing, thereby, here again I say, you are leading behind the lens.

John DeMato:

Well, it’s all about empowering people to capture, as you mentioned before, moments that matter when you wrote that in the book. It is empowering people to capture their moments that matter when it’s happening because it’s impossible to have a professional 24×7 but you have that phone with you 24×7. So, now you have the creative license and the technology and the knowledge to be able to leverage that moment in a really, really wonderful high-quality self-portrait.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed. And I think it becomes even more important now because I’ve always believed in capturing the moment and that’s why I wrote that in the book for you that people sometimes chide me a little bit when they see me come because they know I’m going to take a photo but during the pandemic, it’s really shown the value of those memories because Facebook does a nice job reminding us of all these events we’ve attended but we get a chance to look back and relive those precious memories with our friends or our loved ones. And so, I think more and more people just can’t wait for those opportunities to open up again and they’re going to be taking advantage of the ability to preserve those going forward if they took them for granted before.

John DeMato:

Oh, absolutely. I think there is going to be a major influx of house parties and “Hey, we’re all out and about” and everybody’s taking photos. I definitely foresee that happening once we are more opened up, completely opened up as a country and I really look forward to seeing all those photos.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. And nine modules. That’s impressive. How long is it in total from start to finish, if I want to take this?

John DeMato:

It is 48 minutes.

Eddie Turner:

Oh, okay. So, we can finish it in one hour. You’ve broken it down into nine digestible chunks.

John DeMato:

Yes. Yeah, short and sweet is the way to go. Once upon a time, when I worked in the television industry, that was the phrase – “Keep it short and sweet. Keep it short and sweet” – because attention spans can go. And especially when you’re talking about technical based things, you want to keep these chunks manageable for people so it doesn’t feel like they’re drinking from a fire hose every five seconds. You want to keep it so that it is manageable and actionable immediately.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. And speaking of your television career, do you mind mentioning a little bit about some of the work you did on TV?

John DeMato:

Sure. For nine years, once I got out of grad school, I started working for a talk show The Maury Povich Show and I worked there as a field producer.

Eddie Turner:

You are not the father.

John DeMato:

I know, I know. And it’s okay because you said my name so wonderfully in the intro. You know what, it’s fine but in terms of working there, it was a boot camp in a lot of the stuff that I do now in the sense of understanding how to tell a story and wide shots, medium shots and close-ups and how to capture emotion, understanding the value of getting real close to a subject and truly showing their essence. Despite the fact that there was a five-alarm fire every day on that show, I’m very grateful for the lessons that I learned and the ability to apply all of that experience to what I do now with my experts.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. John, what’s the main message you would like to leave our listeners with today?

John DeMato:

I believe that one of the most important aspects of the way that you present yourself is through your photos because photos aren’t meant to inspire people to immediately sign on the dotted line but what they do inspire your audience to do is to pick up the pen. And that’s the goal of your image content. When you have a perspective of understanding that it’s meant to create an opportunity to start a conversation, that’s when you really start to truly benefit from the power of visual storytelling. And that’s something that I think everyone who is an expert, who is a leader, who is someone that wants to build a community of those that they serve, they need to keep that in mind.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. Well, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed talking with you, John, and I appreciate all the great work you’ve done for me over the years. In fact, I haven’t been able to take advantage as much of your in-person services as I have your virtual services. And so, go to John’s website. He’s doing all kinds of work for people. And John, tell us your website again and tell us anyplace else that you want people to know how to contact you.

John DeMato:

Sure. It’s JohnDeMato.com. And fortunately, on every single page of my website there is an opportunity to follow me on my social platforms at the bottom of every page. And if someone were more interested in learning more about persuasive visual storytelling and branded lifestyle portraiture virtual photography and all the other stuff that I offer to my clients, I would suggest you sign up for my blog. I put out 13 blogs a month and you can do that through my website as well.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. John, thank you for showing us how to lead behind the lens and for being a guest on the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

John DeMato:

Always a pleasure talking with you, Eddie. Thank you very much.

Eddie Turner:

That concludes this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 111 | Leading Behind the Lens | John DeMato appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 110 | Collaborative Global Leadership Development | Nankhonde Van Den Broek

admin — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 08:18:24 +0000

Nankhonde Van Den Broek
Top 30 Coach in the World – Global Gurus and Founder & CEO at Zanga African Metrics
Collaborative Global Leadership Development

Episode Summary
I enjoyed discussing leadership development in the land of Zambia and the continent of Africa with one of the Top 30 coaches in the world—Nankhonde Kasonde-van den Broek! Listen to this episode to understand how she helps develop leaders locally to impact globally.

Detailed Episode Summary
https://c-suitenetwork.com/advisors/collaborative-global-leadership-development/

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Nankhonde Kasonde-van den Broek is a development activist and serial entrepreneur. She is the Founder and Lead Consultant at Nankhonde Kasonde Consultancy, Founder and Creative Director at KHONDE (www.khondezambia.com), Founder and CEO at ZANGA African Metrics (www.zangametrics.com). After a decade of working in international development and international finance globally with the United Nations and the Global Fund to fight AIDS, Tuberculosis, and Malaria, she returned to Zambia to pursue her purpose and desire to contribute to her country’s economy the broader African development agenda.

Nankhonde is an internationally certified Executive Coach &; Organizational change architect. She has over 20 years of experience in multinationals, international organizations, and Governments. She is an accomplished professional with a wealth of African, international and multi-cultural knowledge in designing and leading large-scale change across multiple sectors.

Nankhonde has lived and worked in New York, Geneva, Dakar, and Lilongwe. She has traveled extensively and supported programs across Africa and South East Asia. Nankhonde is a member of the Africa List, a group of future African Leaders in emerging markets (cohort 2020). Nankhonde is a Marshall Goldsmith 50 Global Leading Coach and a member of the MG100. She is a Board Member at the Lusaka Apex Medical University in Lusaka, Zambia, and a Board Member at Sanlam Life Insurance Zambia Ltd (Part of the Sanlam Group, South Africa). Nankhonde is a graduate of the renowned HEC Paris Business School (France) &; Oxford University (U.K.) joint Executive Specialized Masters Degree in Consulting &; Coaching for Change. In addition, she holds an MBA specializing in Project Management from the African Institute of Management (Dakar, Senegal), an MSc in Management from the University of Quebec at Chicoutimi (Quebec, Canada), and a B.A. in Management from Webster University (Geneva, Switzerland). She is fluent in French and is married with two children.

Website
https://www.zangametrics.com/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nankhondevandenbroek/

Leadership Quote
“It takes extraordinary effort to stop doing something in our comfort zone (because it’s
painless or familiar or mildly pleasurable) to start something difficult that will be
good for us in the long run.” Marshall Goldsmith

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Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, masterful facilitation, and motivational speaking.Leadership development. This podcast is dedicated to it. It’s critically important around the globe. Today, I want to talk about how we develop leaders, specifically in Zambia, and how by taking a look at how leaders are developed in Zambia at a micro level how when we maximize at the macro level we can see the view of how developing leaders locally has significant implications for global leadership development at the macro level. To do that, I’ve invited an expert on this topic. I’ve invited Nankhonde van den Broek. Nankhonde is a development activist and a serial entrepreneur but she’s much more than that. I want to let Nankhonde tell you more about her background and then we will begin our discussion.

So, Nankhonde, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Nankhonde:

Hi, Eddie. Thank you so much for having me. It’s a pleasure to be with you and your audience today.

Eddie Turner:

Nankhonde, it is my honor to have you. I am just thrilled that you accepted my invitation to be a guest on the show. Tell my listeners more about you and your incredible background.

Nankhonde:

Thank you. I’ve been an executive coach for the last 10 years and my primary purpose has been to develop leaders in Zambia and across the African continent. And doing this has really been driven by a number of things that I believe have a thread throughout the last 20 years of my life. And as a person who believes in the potential of Africa and investing in its people, I think my career before becoming an executive coach really was pronounced around global development and how the world is connected. So, before becoming an executive coach, I spent about a decade working for the United Nations in different countries. So, from New York to Geneva and then on the African continent, living in Senegal, I speak French and also Malawi, I was privileged to appreciate how the plight or global human cause can be supported to achieve exponential results. And being part of that vehicle and machinery that is driving development across the world helped me to understand the key assets in development, people. And coming out of that career, I went on then to transition into not so much building and supporting projects on the ground but looking at how I have skills and talent and a passion for people and translating that into leadership development and that’s how I got to where I am at. And to do this, I studied at Oxford and ATC Paris because I wanted to not only specialize in people but appreciate the wider change. And I think our age and times right now speak to a new time, a new era. And so, working on developing leaders in the context of continuous evolution and VUCA world has been something that I have gone on to work on in this context but also contribute globally because as we build leaders in Africa, we’re also contributing to the global agenda for our human development.

Eddie Turner:

That is just simply wonderful. Your background is so rich and that’s why I wanted you to tell that. You can tell that far better than I can. Now, people should know you’re not just an executive coach as you’ve described yourself. Nankhonde van den Broek has just been recognized by Global Gurus as one of the Top 30 coaches in the world. So, congratulations on that recognition for 2021, Nankhonde.

Nankhonde:

Thank you very much. It’s quite humbling to be recognized on the list that has the names of people I read, I learn from and whose tools, whose methods have really shaped me to become who I am.

Eddie Turner:

Well, you deserve it. The work that you’re doing is nothing short of extraordinary and the impact you’re having. And I’m glad you made that other distinction that I did not make. It’s not just Zambia. You are also impacting the entire continent of Africa with your work and that’s one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you. I find you fascinating when we speak. In fact, you and I met during the pandemic as a part of Marshall Goldsmith’s family of the MG 100, the top coaches that he’s brought together. And during the pandemic, it’s easy sometimes especially for those of us in the west to really have a little bit of myopia and we are just not looking outside of our own lens and by talking to you, you said something that stopped me dead in my tracks. We were talking about the assistance at the time the United States was giving to small business owners and giving to individual families. I really don’t mean to put you on the spot but I am going to put you on the spot. Do you remember that conversation? It’s been probably a year now but you said about Zambia it’s very different.

Nankhonde:

Yes, I vaguely remember the conversation. And I think what was interesting is the pandemic is everywhere and the experience, I think, at an individual and collective level has been traumatic to different degrees but the context in which it’s being experienced does have some differences. And as a result, our approaches to supporting each other through it and out of it can vary.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. And Marshall was bringing us together and that played a significant role in my life in getting myself and family through the pandemic because Marshall basically, I’d say, took us to another level. He always had us above and beyond and we knew kind of what was going to be coming down the pipe two or three days, in some cases longer, before it was showing up in the news just because of the access to experts he has and who he was putting us in touch with. And so, when we were talking about the assistance that we were getting to the United States resources, you made it very clear to us, “Listen, that’s not available here in Zambia. There is no aid coming. In Zambia and other parts of Africa, people must be more self-sufficient and become more resourceful.” Can you talk about that?

Nankhonde:

Yes, I recall, I think, discussing or unpacking the word ‘resilience’, what does it mean because by virtue of being in a developing country and on a continent that is still in progress, resilience is innate. And I think one of the challenges that the pandemic brought was the need to be self-sufficient because people did what people do. You protect yourself first. So, even in an airplane, they tell you to put your mask on first before you try and help anybody else and that’s what people did. It actually revealed a number of gaps and weaknesses in a lot of countries and different countries responded to support their own people first. And as a result of that, it was quite clear that from an African perspective, we would need to figure out for ourselves some of our own response as the rest of the world decided what it could do for us. And I think that resilience and resourcefulness has meant that we’ve often had an opportunity even within crisis to see things differently but also to develop our own mechanisms. And I think that’s what we’ve done. It has been hard. The first wave was not as bad as the second. And as we brace ourselves potentially for the third wave and the arrival of vaccines into the country, we still are resourceful, we’re still working out how are we going to work with the resources that have been allocated to us because, as you can imagine, we have not been given even now as many vaccines or have been able to procure as many vaccines as some of the more richer developed countries have been able to. So, you can’t just sit and wait. You have to take action. And I think taking action is how we lead in our context.

Eddie Turner:

And take action you did. And that’s one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you because what you explain here about resilience, you’re doing this with leadership development. And your perspective is just simply, I think, insightful and it’s having an impact. So, how are you developing leaders in Zambia?

Nankhonde:

So, my role has been to really from a macro level appreciate that if we take Africa and then bring it down to Zambia, 60% of our population is under 25, meaning that we have what we refer to as a young demographic dividend.

Eddie Turner:

I did not know that.

Nankhonde:

Yes. There’s a huge opportunity to get leadership development right now for this demographic dividend. And working with multinationals, the government and international organizations in Zambia, my role has been primarily to support them to develop leaders within the context of their strategic objectives but you can’t do that out of the context of what’s happening in the country that 60% of the population is under 25. And how do we then shape how they will lead in the future right now. And working at the C-suite level, it occurred to me that there were opportunities earlier to develop these leaders and to support them on their trajectory to leadership positions, to executive positions before they got there. And that’s why, a lot of my work has been to support the middle belt, the middle tier and middle managers because for us that is the key to our growth potential and future. And so, my leadership development programs are really focused around increasing self-awareness around the people I work with and creating personal development strategies for themselves, their own personal visions because, as you can appreciate, we come from a background where poverty is real and many of the people I work with come from situations that have not always had opportunity. And so, you take the opportunities you have. So, how do we help people design and create a new future for the country and a new future for this continent if they don’t have the skills? And it starts at an individual level. So, first, creating that vision and increasing self-awareness of the opportunity to actually realize it and then second, you have to develop the technical, the hard skills of managing and leading. And I think that toolkit is something that we share as global best practices on how to not only develop organizations and businesses but scale them and take them to become impactful into the economies in which they are also supporting. And then, thirdly, looking at not hard skills but soft skills, how do we get people to appreciate that once you transition from technical into strategic leadership, it’s about people and it’s about how you behave, how you work with others and how you generate results through others and your legacy is actually part of that process and journey.

Eddie Turner:

Fascinating. And you introduced a new component here that is worth highlighting. You’re doing this in the face of immense poverty in many cases.

Nankhonde:

Yes, we are a developing country and Zambia is one of the emerging markets on the continent. So, there has been growth at the national level but set back by the pandemic. And we have been growing as an economy. We are a stable country. And the dynamics and characteristics of Africa are different. The regions have their characteristics but Zambia in southern Africa has been stable and peaceful. And although we were in the economic crisis before COVID, which has then been compounded by COVID, we do face these challenges of not only trying to build a country but build the systems and also support the businesses that are going to be part of the partnerships that will take development not only as a responsibility of government but the private sector and individuals as well. So, the context is we are developing this country. Everybody is contributing to the development in a different way to developed countries where I think there is a sense more of opportunity and access around you. Here we don’t have that. So, we have to create it. We’re building it.

Eddie Turner:

And as a result of not having the resources that other countries have, as a result of needing to be more resourceful and resilient, as you’ve mentioned, what would you say is the impact that has on the leaders you’re developing?

Nankhonde:

So, I’ll answer this in two ways. There’s the history of Zambia and there’s the history of acquiring independence in 1964 from the British. And that history has in it a dynamic that had an impact on the type of leadership that has been produced. So, the primary goal initially was to gain independence to be able to self-rule and govern. And post the sort of physical freedom the next goal was and continues to be economic freedom, being able to not only build a thriving and robust economy but also one that can support its own people and even extend beyond our borders to the region. So, there’s a historical element to the leadership style and the leadership qualities that we have had and are evolving. And over time, what we’ve been able to do is move from leaders who were developed to provide guidance and direction and support even what I would call our traditional systems to change and develop the country in ways that were more directive. And so, we had followers. And now as the world evolves and changes, we need leadership not just at the top. We need leadership at every level. And so, that is our current work and our current opportunity is breaking down leadership in Africa to develop leaders who can come forward not only because they’re invited to do so but because they have the confidence, the courage, and the skills to appreciate that we are building a different leadership DNA. I almost feel like we are rewriting the source code for what it means to be a leader in Africa today and that is our work. So, for me, this is fundamental in developing leaders in Africa. You must understand where we’re coming from.

Eddie Turner:

Tell me more.

Nankhonde:

When I refer to developing leaders in Africa, and you’ve got to take it from the historical context and then to the future perspective of where we want to go, it’s important to understand that at independence we were coming out of oppression and suppression by the colonial rulers and, in Zambia, the case was the British. And at independence, our leaders were part of the struggle to get us physically free. And that meant that a lot of the population before that were coming from a mindset and a construct of being told what to do – “Go and sit there. Do this. You’re only allowed to shop here. You can only go to these schools. As natives, you can only do this.” And so, you can imagine we’re coming from a population where we had traditional leadership structures that were broken down and put aside in order to bring in a new system of government and management that was imposed. And so, at independence, it now meant that the leaders had to define a new leadership style because the cause was achieved, the goal was achieved to get independence. And that’s been our struggle as Africans to now understand that the agenda now and the work for leadership development is to build the systems that are going to develop the economies, grow the schools beyond what we inherited at independence and develop the kind of infrastructure that’s going to actually allow us to succeed and excel and have populations that are thriving. And so, when I talk about evolving the leadership here, I’m talking about rewriting the source code for the leadership style we inherited or the leadership mindset we inherited. And I am part of an army of coaches across the continent who understand this and appreciate it that whenever we get a client, whenever we go to work with a big company, a small company or speak to a small group of young people, we appreciate our job. We are going to be responsible and held accountable for driving the transformation and the evolution of the leadership DNA in Africa to create the leaders of the Africa we want in 50 years. And so, I’m part of an army of coaches working in different sectors. And I must give them recognition because on the African continent, there are many people driving leadership development so that we can actually break the mold we inherited and redesign our own. And that’s why, I’m so passionate about Zanga African Metrics because that’s about now getting to the next level of even designing the tools and the references and the metrics we use because we appreciate historically where we’re coming from. And when we got independence, for example, in Zambia, Kenneth Kaunda, our first president, he knew that he had several tribes to unite in addition to this transition from the British to the Zambian. And so, his philosophy and one thing that we continue to live by in Zambia and unites us, we still have differences, but there’s one thing, when you speak to a Zambian, we say “One Zambia, one nation” because Kenneth Kaunda’s philosophy was humanism. He knew that “I must unite these people around the fact that they’re human first before I take them to that they’re Zambian and then they’re their respective tribes because at the human level, we need to build this country. We can’t build it from division.” And so, for me, that whole philosophy really sticks to my mind when I’m working with my clients and when I look at the opportunity for transforming leadership development because we’re transforming humanity on this continent. And so, this is why I thought it’s so important to get the historical perspective of where we’re coming from because it’s not just about building competencies and capabilities. It’s actually transforming the mind.

Eddie Turner:

Powerful, simply powerful. Nankhonde, thank you for giving me more clarity around that. You really are writing the DNA and you make it clear the reason it needs to be rewritten at the DNA level. That’s a very appropriate phrase to use. I’m getting chills just talking to you because it’s making me think about the work that I’ve done in terms of researching or listening to stories of people who’ve talked about what it was like for the American slave. So, similar there in the colonization of Africa, a form of slavery, in that yeah, you’re not used to making decisions. So, it’s one thing for people to tell you you’re not a leader. It’s something else when you tell yourself you’re not a leader. And you tell yourself that because you’ve never had to lead. Other people have always led you, told you what to do, did the thinking for you, you weren’t even allowed to think and in many cases weren’t allowed to be educated. So, when you now are put in that position, you don’t know, you truly don’t. So, it gives new meaning to the words leadership development. It has to be developed and you’re coming from a deeper place to have to build up from than with some other leaders where you don’t have to go as deep.

Nankhonde:

Yes.

Eddie Turner:

Wow! Fascinating. Thank you for sharing that. That’s rich. Thank you for illuminating us with that nugget.

Nankhonde:

You’re welcome.

Eddie Turner:

I love that. That is fascinating, Nankhonde. And I asked that in part also, Nankhonde, because I was thinking about how sometimes when people have to work harder to get something, they end up better as a result. And so, it sounds like certainly that’s what’s happening in the great nation of Zambia and for the 80 … This podcast is downloaded 80 countries. So, for leaders who are looking for leaders, tell them why Zambia is not a place to overlook when they’re trying to broaden their talent bench.

Nankhonde:

I think what’s interesting and what’s happening is, as the young population, looking at the opportunity, sometimes being a few steps behind the rest of the world can be good. And I say that and I’ll give you the context for it. Because it means you can learn from others, you can learn from mistakes that others have made who have gone ahead. And so, we’ve been able to make strides, especially in terms of, I’d say, the financial sector and fintech. We’ve been able to find ways to drive change on the ground for the benefits of the of Zambia but also across the continent. And I think Zambia is a very interesting population because Zambia is highly educated. We place high value on education in Zambia. And whilst there is still a lot of opportunity to increase literacy levels and access to education, the fact that education is one of the primary values in most families, and I could even extend it to a national level, means that the value of education, means the value of progress, the value of information and knowledge, that can drive change. And so, as a market, I think Zambia has developed talent in different sectors and that gives an opportunity to look at Zambia as not just a place to invest in but a place to work with and a place where, I think, rather than aid, collaboration and trade are becoming increasingly more important as we see the impact of globalization and the multinationals, for example, that I work with here, I’ve seen the opportunity in Zambia and at the same time have seen that you can’t just come with a cookie-cutter approach. You can come in, you can appreciate the opportunity in Zambia but working with the people, understanding the people and helping create or co-create success is a fantastic opportunity right now in Zambia. So, there’s talented population, there’s a young population and there is a great opportunity to be part of the next, I would say, 20 years of Zambia as part of the wider African Union vision.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you.Well, I am talking to Nankhonde van den Broek. We’re talking about collaborative global leadership development and how developing leaders is a local and global collaboration. We’ll have more with Nankhonde right after this.

This is John Perry, organization and leadership development consultant and strategic coach, and you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

We’re back, everyone. I’m talking to Nankhonde van den Broek. We’re talking about collaborative global leadership development. Developing leaders is a local and a global collaboration. And specifically, we’re talking about how it starts there in the nation of Zambia and then goes from a micro level to a macro level to Africa and beyond.Nankhonde, before the break you were telling us about the fascinating work that you’re doing and just the impact you’re having there in Zambia. Now, your leaders are being developed. The stat that you gave me just blew me away. 60% of the country is 25 years or younger, which means that if you develop them properly, my, what a future for the nation and the world. So, tell me more about the collaborative component of leadership development.

Nankhonde:

So, we have one planet and as a result, because we share this home, one of the key things I believe in collaborating around leadership development is developing leaders who fully appreciate that we have a responsibility and we are also connected by the very means of just existing on this earth. And as a result of that, if we look at what we’re trying to achieve here in Zambia is to help people reduce poverty, have better lives for themselves. And the degree of poverty varies across the continent and it varies even across Zambia but from a bigger picture perspective, we’re all trying to live a better life that we can find fulfilling and be successful in. And that requires looking at the different aspects of life and living that connected. And this can be either education, health, nutrition. It can be gender equality. It can be all sorts of different areas. And I like to refer to the sustainable development goals of the United Nations because I think that umbrella of 17 goals brings together our global collaboration. And so, when you take those goals and you break them down and bring them to the level of Africa and then Zambia, collaboration requires us in Zambia to appreciate, for example, what it means to reduce poverty, what it means to build a health system and what it means to be able to provide education and promote or support women and empower them. And so, collaboration, for me, is about what the efforts that Zambia makes to achieve those goals has a ripple effect or domino effect on the progress of the rest of the world and how together, working on different areas, we can actually achieve results. And leadership development, for me, is how we achieve those results and the people who lead us to those results, wherever they are, at the top here strategically but as we work within organizations, my role is to support the competencies and the skills of people who have given me or I have been entrusted to, to acquire across their journey of their career the ability to contribute to those bigger pictures and those bigger goals. So, whether they’re working in a bank, I work with banks here, whether they’re working for nonprofit organization that is dealing with shelters for women and gender-based violence or whether it’s working with academia in private universities, it’s important to recognize that when we’re developing leaders in their context in their organization, they’re also contributing to a larger goal. And so, for me, developing leaders through my work in Zambia is about understanding that and contributing to that. And the people I work with don’t always make this relationship or this connection but I believe one of my purposes, the reason I was created, is to contribute to my generation. And all my experiences to date have led me to be in this position to see both of these pictures and see the opportunity that I am a bridge to connect.

Eddie Turner:

And to the point that you just made about developing the competencies in the leadership of the people entrusted to you, you said so nicely that you were put here to help others in this time. You’ve created the Zanga African Metrics as an assessment to that end. Can you talk about that?

Nankhonde:

Yes. I am western trained and I have had the privilege of having been given the opportunity to be educated abroad. And this education has meant that I’ve been able to bring back best practices to Zambia but over time, I started to notice a disconnect between the tools I was using to support the people entrusted to me and how they actually achieved or realized change in this context and in this culture and I looked for tools that could appreciate a bit more the cultural and the social influences that affect how we actually show up at work and these behavioral insights that are driven by the local culture and even just the virtue of the developing country context. And I couldn’t find any. So, I decided to look into this and develop one. And Zanga African Metrics is about it. It is about encouraging a conversation across the African continent to start developing tools and products and services using our intelligence, using what we know from our traditions, from our cultures but also building from the foundation of global best practices. So, I’ve learned and, as you mentioned Marshall earlier, I’ve learned from some of the best in the world but how do I make that land here in Zambia whether I’m working in a program for a multinational company or whether I’m supporting a community program in a province or across the country, which I’m actually doing right now, how do I help that transfer of knowledge and be a catalyst for that change or an interpreter of the intent of the tool into this culture so that it can drive the results that will be sustainable here. And so, that’s what Zanga African Metrics is about. It’s about developing tools by Africans for Africans that will increase our own self-awareness of how we do achieve results here and how we can encourage more norm groups and comparison groups that are from the continent. And so, my psychometric assessment is building a Zambian norm groups or reference groups that we can use to continue to develop leaders because I have tools and I have some tools that are American and European and they have comparison and norm groups that support you to appreciate where your average is or where you stand vis-a-vis dysfunctional in the context maybe in London or New York. And I thought “Well, let’s have some tools that give you the context and the comparison closer to home. Lusaka, Johannesburg, Nairobi, Lagos, Abidjan. Let’s start looking at that from an African perspective.” I do believe we know enough now and can adapt some of these frameworks and methods to develop tools that are consistent and deliberate for our culture, for our society and for our people. And I’m not denying the impact of the tools that have built me, the tools that I use and worked with from the west. I’m building on them and adapting them. This is a partnership and a collaboration, I believe, that is very powerful and impactful.

Eddie Turner:

You’re just amazing. You are so amazing. That is phenomenal. And the reason I was intrigued by what you did is because it was very similar to what was, at one time, a challenge for some people in the school systems here in the States where the questions were written to where if you weren’t from a certain background, you just couldn’t understand, you wouldn’t give the right answer. So, I love what you’re saying there that you’ve given them something that has a norm group against their own but then, yes, you allow them to go out and then benchmark themselves against the rest of the world and you’re bringing the best of your education. By the way, you speak four languages? Tell us those languages again.

Nankhonde:

So, I am fluent in English and French and I also have my two Zambian languages Bimba and Nyanja which are more working knowledge, I believe, rather than actual written because we come from a [inaudible] culture. So, the languages have been adopted that way.

Eddie Turner:

Beautiful. So, you’re able to bring that back to let people still be true to their native tongue, their native culture but then to be able to be global leaders on a bigger stage, you’re letting them see how they measure up and then you’re sharing with them the best of both worlds, which is simply magnificent, and allows them to build the bench strength there in Zambia and on the continent of Africa that can impact the world.

Nankhonde:

Yes, yes.

Eddie Turner:

You are just amazing and I’m so glad you took some time to talk with me today. What’s the main message you would like to make sure that everyone listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast walks away with from our conversation?

Nankhonde:

I think it’s important for me to share that we’re designing this future together, we’re designing where the world will be in 50 years together right now. And whilst we’re sitting in different places across the world, I think it’s important to take note and increasingly more of what’s going on in different countries so that nobody has the monopoly on intelligence around what the world would look like and what would make it successful in 50 years. And so, we are co-creating this together. And as we develop the leaders that are going to take us to this future, I think it’s important for us to acknowledge the efforts that we are all making and providing ingredients towards this meal that we’re preparing together. So, I want people to take away that we are designing this future together. And to design it together means being able to see each other and hear each other and listen to each other, not to overtake or overrun or dominate the other but rather we’ve got to take the elements of what works from each other and pull them together in service to sharing this vision for the world and how we want to show up as a people in 50 years. And it’s important to say that because I may not be there, you may not be there but we would have contributed to what our children will inherit.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you. What’s the best advice a leader ever gave you or a quote you use to help you keep leading?

Nankhonde:

I love a quote from Kwame Nkrumah. Kwame Nkrumah was the first prime minister and president of Ghana. He took them to independence in 1957. And he said “We face neither East nor West. We face forward.” That is so powerful for me because he was talking about a time where there was a potential divide for Africa to choose either the East or the West to support them and lead them. And he made it clear that this is not about picking sides. This is about keeping our eyes on the ball, where do we want to go together and then how are we going to work it out to cooperate and support each other to get that.

Eddie Turner:

I like that. Thank you, Nankhonde. Where can my listeners learn more about you?

Nankhonde:

I am on LinkedIn, Nankhonde van del Broek. And I also have a website ZangaMetrics.com. I’m also on Twitter and that’s Nankhonde.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. We will put that in the show notes so people can click on those easily to connect with you. And I encourage everyone listening, connect with Nankhonde, follow her on Twitter, connect with her on LinkedIn, visit her website. She is doing, as you heard on the episode here, amazing work and I am just so thrilled that you came here to be on the Keep Leading!® Podcast to share what you’re doing to impact locally and globally.

Nankhonde:

Thank you so much for this opportunity, Eddie. It’s been a wonderful conversation and pleasure to join you and the global audience listening in.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you so much.And thank you for listening. That concludes this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 110 | Collaborative Global Leadership Development | Nankhonde Van Den Broek appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 109 | How to Make 6-Figures as a Freelancer | Alex Fasulo

admin — Sun, 23 May 2021 07:31:27 +0000

Alex Fasulo
Freelance Expert who made $1 Million on Fiverr
How to Make 6-Figures as a Freelancer

Episode Summary
Uber ushered in the “gig economy.” The “gig economy is fueled by freelancers working when they want on what they want. In this episode, I interview Alex Fasulo, who made over $1 Million as a freelancer on Fiverr.com. She explains how to lead as a freelancer!

Detailed Episode Summary
https://c-suitenetwork.com/advisors/how-to-make-6-figures-as-a-freelancer/

Keep Leading LIVE!™ (34 Minutes)

Keep Leading LIVE!™

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Alex Fasulo is a full-time freelance writer, author, speaker, copywriting business owner, and best known for becoming a Fiverr.com millionaire in September 2020. She is also the Freelance Fairytales Podcast host, which covers all gig economy news, freelancing trials, and tribulations, and breaking out of 9-to-5 jobs to find financial independence. Alex is passionate about sharing her message with the world and posts content often to TikTok, Instagram, Pinterest, her closed Facebook group ‘Freelancing Mentorship with Alexandra Fasulo,’ and her website.

Website
https://alexfasulo.com/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrafasulo/

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3715810965116993

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/alexandrafasulo/

Leadership Quote
“Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty… I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well.” – Theodore Roosevelt

Get Your Copy of Alexandra’s Book!
https://alexfasulo.com/bookstore/

Subscribe, Share and Review

Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Well, welcome, everyone, to Keep Leading LIVE™. Keep Leading LIVE™ is the video version of the Keep Leading!® Podcast. Like the Keep Leading!® Podcast, Keep Leading LIVE™ is dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate their performance and drive impact primarily through executive coaching, facilitation, and motivational speaking.It’s been a while since I’ve done a live broadcast. Let’s see if I can remember how this works today but so many wonderful things have been happening and I’m delighted to be here today with a very special guest that I can’t wait to tell you about. We’re streaming live on LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube. If you are here, don’t be a stranger. Let us know you’re here by commenting. You can comment throughout our discussion. Tell us who you are and tell us where you’re located and I’m going to invite you to ask questions of our guest. And we would love for you to be able to follow our guests. And so, I’ll be sure to share her information with you so you can stay connected with her and learn from her. And hit the share button. If you are listening to us in addition to letting us know you’re here, as Nada just did, hit the share button so this goes into your friends’ feed so they can either join us live or it’s available to them after our session has concluded.

Now, almost everyone has heard of Uber. Uber has become a verb and it has played a significant part in what’s known as the gig economy. And this idea of the gig economy and hiring freelancers and independent contractors is now even coming inside of corporations. Instead of hiring a permanent employee, perhaps a 1099 contractor or a freelancer for a gig. Entrepreneurs are very familiar with services like Upwork and Fiverr. It’s the lifeline to a lot of small businesses. Because of my guest today, I stepped back and looked at the work that independent contractors and freelancers do differently. I see it as a different form of leadership. So, to that end, we’re going to talk about leading as a freelancer today and how you can make six figures as a freelancer. If you’re going to do that, you need a freelance expert.

My guest today is indeed a freelance expert. My guest today joining me is Alex Fasulo and you see her there right now. Alex is a full-time freelance writer, author, speaker, copywriter, and business owner. She is best known for making a million dollars as a freelancer on Fiverr. So, she’s going to tell us the secrets today. I can’t wait to learn and help my own business.

Alex, welcome to Keep Leading LIVE™.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Thank you for having me, Eddie. You are so well spoken. I feel like I need you to come and see something for me.

Eddie Turner:

You’re very kind. You’re just a great writer. I’m going to have you write some things for me. So, we’re even.So, Alex, tell us a little bit about yourself before we get into our interview.

Alexandra Fasulo:

I mean, my story’s been blasted out there. I sometimes feel like people have heard it many times but I went to college, thought I was going to work in an office for the rest of my life, the typical schedule for everyone. And I graduated, went to work in Albany as a press corps leader. I’m in the New York State [inaudible]. And a year later I applied to jobs in New York City, which was about two hours away because I wanted to see what was out there, the classic from a small town, I want to see if I can make it in a big city, the usual story. And I took a PR job in New York City that I only lasted four weeks at, which everyone knows, because I hated it so much and I hated working in an office so much. That was the best thing I ever did technically because it kind of forced me to start freelancing as a way to make my bills because I had a situation, bills aren’t easy to pay in a New York City or a Brooklyn. So, after I quit that job, I was like “Okay, I have to get serious about this.” And I was on Fiverr. At the time, I was only editing. I wasn’t taking it very seriously. So, when I quit the job, I opened a bunch of new writing services on Fiverr. And it was only a couple months later that I was self-sufficient, paying my bills. That was when I was like “Wow! I can make a career as a freelance writer work for myself.” And that was nearly six years ago now. So, you find me six years later still doing the same thing but in a different capacity of course and it’s been great.

Eddie Turner:

Six years. Wow! Yeah, you’re right, you’re everywhere. I saw you on CNBC, Forbes and every place and I said “I’ve got to talk to her.”

Alexandra Fasulo:

I know, crazy.

Eddie Turner:

Some people who are listening may not know what a freelancer is. They may have an idea, may have heard the phrase. So, can you just start off by telling us what a freelancer is?

Alexandra Fasulo:

That’s a great point. I have people still ask me they don’t quite understand it. So, a freelancer, just another term for someone who works for themselves. You’re an entrepreneur in essence and you work with clients on your core project [inaudible]. So, it’s part of the gig economy, much like an Uber a driver who drive you one way [inaudible] and that’s a freelancer. I’ll have people reach out to me and have me write a blog for them. I write the blog, I deliver it to them and that might be it, that might be the end of our arrangement. And therefore, I could work with anywhere from 10 to 20 clients every day and that’s actually the scalability of it and also what I like about it because no two days are the same.

Eddie Turner:

How did you get started?

Alexandra Fasulo:

Well, so I had been on Fiverr actually while I was working in Albany because I was bored and my mom told me about it because my mom always knows about trends and everything. So, I was like “Mom, I’m bored. I don’t like working in an office.” And she was like “Oh, shut up” and like “Here’s a website that you can maybe make some money on” and that was it. I went on there and made a profile. I was charging 5 dollars for editing, nothing. I was making like 40 a month. And then in 2016 when I had quit, I got on Fiverr just full time. So, I had a just very practical thought in my head which was “If this is the only thing in my life that’s making me money right now, it probably deserves a little more of my attention than I’ve been giving it.”

Eddie Turner:

So, mom knows best, in other words.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Oh, my mom always knows best.

Eddie Turner:

So, what’s mom saying about you now?

Alexandra Fasulo:

I actually run a business with mom. So, mom and me are like business entrepreneur partners. We love it. Whenever we’re hanging out, we’re more so feel like business partners even than mother-daughter. We’re like we’re in it together. So, I think my mom’s very proud and I owe this to mom because mom was a great role model for me.

Eddie Turner:

Outstanding. What a wonderful thing to say about mom and to be a business partner now.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Yeah.

Eddie Turner:

You said you started off making low wages but then at a certain point, things shifted. Everybody doesn’t have your stories. How did it shift? How did it change?

Alexandra Fasulo:

I think the big shift that happened in my story were merely because I stuck with this so long. The first three years were very uneventful. I kept my head down. I still made decent money. I was making, I think, like 68k or something a year which is so amazing working for yourself with your laptop. So, I was content. I didn’t say like “Oh, I need to be a big six-figure earner.” I didn’t really care. I was 23, 24, very happy. And then in 2017, when Fiverr launched Fiverr Pro which is like the top 1% of the platform, that was kind of their program in a way to be competitive with an Upwork or these other sites that are seen as like higher tier than Fiverr. And they wanted to have people be part of Fiverr Pro. So, they reached out to me because I had been on there for years and they said “Hey, we want to make you one of the Fiverr Pro copywriters who are looking to populate the category” and I was like “Okay, cool.” And they said “You know what, you’re going to go from charging 25 dollars for things to 100 dollars for things because we need you to because that’s the psychology, know pricing and everything like you’re the luxury brand of Fiverr.” And that’s what changed my life. It didn’t get rolled out in full until 2018. So, from 2015 to 2018, life was pretty uneventful on there. I did increase my earnings year over year but it wasn’t until 2018 that they exploded my earnings because of Fiverr Pro. And people say to me like “Well, you’re lucky you got on Fiverr Pro. You can’t get on it now” but not true. I have people every week tell me that they’re being accepted into it. So, I throw that out there.

Eddie Turner:

So, it made a huge difference for you. And is that when you catapulted into the seven-figure range?

Alexandra Fasulo:

I actually didn’t hit making a million dollars on Fiverr until September of 2020 but that is when I went into the six-figure range in 2018 because I was making like 60K, 70k a year. So, 2018 was a huge jump from 65k the prior year to 273K in 2018. That’s a huge, huge jump and that was kind of when this all just got crazy. That was when CNBC covered me for the first time and it was so public, all this money I was making. That was hard like right on the internet what money I earned. Some people like to try and keep that private but it was just boom, it was out there and that’s kind of when this part of my story began.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, people try to keep that private but you have been very public about it. Tell me why.

Alexandra Fasulo:

I guess there’s two reasons. One, these news outlets ask for it. And in the beginning, I worked in PR, so I get how PR works and I know that if you give them what they want, they’ll reward you with PR and then eventually, you don’t have to share that information anymore. So, I feel like finally this year I’m at a point where I don’t have to from here on out share it. So, I shared it in the beginning for the news angle, one reason. And the other reason was I wanted to be transparent about it because I really believe that this was something that a lot of other people could be doing. And I wanted to share it because I’m like “I’m not just going to hide this and it’s just for me and nobody else. That’s not how I am.” So, I was like “You know what, other people could be doing this.” Parents. You have single parents. I have people in my group. I have grandparents who are doing it. I was like “This is a really amazing side hustle and I feel like if I am more transparent about it, people will trust me and maybe consider it for themselves.”

Eddie Turner:

All right, parents, grandparents, [inaudible], you heard it from Alex. If you’re looking for a side hustle or a main vocation that she has done, you have something you can explore that you haven’t thought about before which is why we want to talk to you.And you said something very interesting on that when you were sharing this. You understand PR. How has all this sharing impacted your business because you were already successful? What has sharing done for you?

Alexandra Fasulo:

Sharing has actually helped advance my personal brand like me separate from Fiverr. These articles grow my social media following. People will buy my eBooks. They’ll buy my online courses. They’ll buy into the brand of Alex Fasulo from the PR. And that was my aim because I knew I didn’t want to for the rest of my life just be the Fiverr girl because Fiverr still, in part, owns some of my business. I run a business using their platform. So, starting in 2018, I did recognize I wanted to start to create my own stuff that is not associated with Fiverr for just protection and whatever. So, PR and being transparent with reporters and getting my name out there has made me feel like more of an authority in the space than just a freelance writer.

Eddie Turner:

In other words, it sounds like you’re saying your brand.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Yes.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. And you said authority, credibility.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Yes.

Eddie Turner:

Tell me more about that.

Alexandra Fasulo:

I mean, I feel like nobody is ever really an expert. I always have a little problem when people are like “Oh, I’m an expert at this. I’m an expert at that” or when these crypto people who are like “No, I’m a crypto guru.” I’m like “No one’s a crypto guru because it hasn’t even been around for like 10 years.” So, I don’t think anyone’s ever an expert but I do think that since I’m heading into my seventh year of doing this that I am in a position now where I feel like I have a lot of insight and information that I want to share with people about things that I learned along the way that they don’t necessarily need to make the same mistakes. Where the industry is going, I’ve been around so long now that I’m in contact with a bunch of different people in the industry who are going to launch new things this year. So, I’m trying to get into that place where I get tipped off in what’s to come and I can share that and I’m making myself like a news aggregator in some way.

Eddie Turner:

Well, you are an expert. Own it. You’ve made seven figures doing what you do. There are some people who are experts who won’t even make that. I mean, just an exciting story.And by the way, I never ask a woman her age, but how old are you?

Alexandra Fasulo:

You’re so funny. I’m 28. I don’t mind when people ask me.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah, I think it’s so important to share that with our audience because you have accomplished this so early. So, sometimes people may think “Well, you have to be older and more experienced and all these other things.” As a young person, I mean, you’re a beacon of light for all of us but I think especially for young people. It’s been tough in the economy in some ways for folks coming out of school. And so, you are showing opportunities for us to look at and think about differently.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Yeah. I mean, I love doing that. I love to both be productive, earn money, whatever and then also help people at the same time. I think those things can all happen simultaneously. So, I have recognized that, I guess, especially because of the pandemic. That was when I realized that I have very helpful information to help people whether some seriously tough financial situations from people losing their jobs to being fired to people dying to all these different things that happened in the last year. I had people start to write to me and say “You know, I have nowhere left to turn. Can you explain Fiverr to me?” And at first, I’m like “Oh my gosh, of course.” I’m answering as many people as I can. And then I realized I should start just publicly releasing content on this so these people don’t have to direct message me. It’s just out there. And then that just kind of blew up because people were like “Oh my God, this girl’s sitting on like the golden ticket here.”

Eddie Turner:

Yes.

Alexandra Fasulo:

I was like “Oh, you know, I’m so close to it,” I didn’t realize that.

Eddie Turner:

You don’t realize just how great you are. I’m serious. I mean, because I talk to people all the time and as a coach, I experience this when working with people. And so, that’s why I find you so fascinating and I wanted to share you with my audience.What I’d like to do now is just take a small break and acknowledge some people who help me do what I do. And I have to start off by acknowledging the wonderful people at Grand Heron International.

I also want to acknowledge the wonderful folks over at American Express, StandForSmall.com, and the team at IBM, Goldman Sachs, Infinity, Progressive, PayPal, Kroger, Fidelity Investments, Walgreens. Those are all sponsors who have helped us out this month. And the C Suite Radio and the C Suite Network team, always want to acknowledge them as they help me turn the volume up on business.

We’ll have more right after this.

This is Phil M. Jones, author of Exactly What to Say, Exactly How to Sell, and Exactly Where to Stop and you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

We’re back. I’m having a ball talking to Alex Fasulo. We’re talking about leading as a freelancer, how to make six figures as a freelancer, making opportunities for those who may not have considered some of these opportunities before. We invite you to visit KeepLeadingPodcast.com to get the archives of all episodes. And this episode is going to live on the internet of course, LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube after this episode is over, but you can also see it again on KeepLeadingLive.com which is on the website and this will be released as a regular audio episode in the days to come as well.So, talking to Alex Fasulo. We’re talking about leading as a freelancer and how to make six figures as a freelancer. Alex, you’ve told us about the incredible journey as a freelancer and the success you’ve had in terms of finance but also the impact you’re having on people and even able to start a business with mom.

Shaquille O’Neal famously said “It’s not about how much we make. It’s about how much we keep.” And he sets an example that especially in an area where people don’t necessarily keep all the money they’ve made. You’ve made seven figures. And I know that you’re a person who hasn’t spent it all. You have done some incredible things about savings that you’ve mentioned. Can you share with my audience your philosophy on saving?

Alexandra Fasulo:

Yeah. I know I had a lot of different feedback from the CNBC episode where I talked about my approach to money because I think my approach to money is not millennial at all. It’s actually more old school. I’m like spend what you have and don’t spend more than that type of person where I feel like a lot of millennials are like “No, put it on your eight credit cards and pay it off and you’ll make this an interest and that an interest.” And I’m an old soul, if you can’t tell. So, I feel like it’s no wonder I lean in the direction. I’m very old school with my money. So, I save it first and foremost. You’ll never catch me in debt or anything. I save my money and then I spend it as I can spend it. So, I’m actually in my house I just bought, which is amazing and I am investing a lot of money back into my businesses right now. So, I’m careful to keep a lot floating around still because I like to have it accessible so I can use it to grow my businesses because that’s my first and foremost love and passion when people are like “Oh, why don’t you go spend it on a purse?” or “Why don’t you go spend it on a designer jacket?” I’m like there’s nothing wrong with people who like to do that but business makes me happy. So, I actually like spending money on my businesses. They’re like my children. So, yeah, I guess that’s how you’ll catch me. I mean, I have some money in retirement, I have an SAP and an IRA, I have some money in the stock market, a little money in crypto and then the rest is in house, car and just saved.

Eddie Turner:

Beautiful. I mean, I’m so proud of you. And, again, at 28 years of age, you have the mentality, you’re far advanced both in what you’ve accomplished and with your thinking and that’s just so exemplary, so admirable.And I have a William Goof who’s, if I’ve pronounced that correctly, chiming in. He says these online communities favor younger people and he says same with surefire investing. In some ways, that may be true, may be but certainly we see it starting to scale up in the direction of people who are learning to use this. You’re saving and you’re applying this but when you said that, you said companies, plural. So, you’re more than just one company now. Tell me a little bit about that.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Yeah, I’m all over the place. I am a serial entrepreneur in the truest definition of it to the point where I probably need to like calm down. I mean, in any given day, I work on six or seven different businesses or projects because I love it. So, I have Fiverr, right? I have my personal brand that I create content for. I have my podcast that I launched. I have my closed Facebook group which is a totally different brand that I’m actually working on making into a news site. So, I’m building a news website with my website builder, launching my YouTube channel. I have an app that I made. I have a drop shipping business I run with my cousin. It’s just like I sound crazy but it keeps going.

Eddie Turner:

That’s fantastic. That’s fantastic. Keep up the good work. What advice would you give to others who are listening to us right now?

Alexandra Fasulo:

Any advice at all?

Eddie Turner:

About getting started, if they’re interested. I’m sorry, I should’ve been more clear. Any advice if they want to get started like “Hey, I’ve never thought this was something for me. I want to get started.” What should they do?

Alexandra Fasulo:

With freelancing like on Fiverr or something? Okay. So, I would say to them that this is your chance to do something you actually want to do with your life and that you enjoy doing. I picked writing because I always liked writing. I did not think it would make me good money. I always thought I would live a modest life as a writer and I was okay with that. So, I would say to them spend a day or two getting to know yourself and your interests like what do you actually want to do if money was not an object and come up with your list. Then once you have that list, find the freelancing platforms that match up with that. Fiverr has expanded and it has a lot. It’s not all digital marketing now. It’s fitness lessons, cooking lessons, music lessons. It has more than you would think on it because they’re working to expand but if your particular skill that you want to offer isn’t on there, there is a platform for it. This year more than ever so many of these platforms are popping up that I would say people don’t panic if it’s not on Fiverr. There’s Upwork. There’s Contra coming up right now. There’s Continuum. LinkedIn is launching its own freelancing platform. So, there’s so much opportunity. So, I would say get to know yourself what you want to do and then based on that, Google it, find out which platforms work best for you. And then the next thing I would say is to be patient because this definitely is not a get rich quick scheme at all. It’s going to take a lot of patience.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. In fact, I’m glad you mentioned that because that was why I was asking you earlier about your start and the transition. It’s a very nice point that you make. As we see these sites growing in use, would you say that freelancing is the future of business?

Alexandra Fasulo:

100% I don’t see why not because I look at it very unemotionally and I go “Okay, here’s the freelancer. Here’s the company.” It’s just a win-win when you think about it for both parties. The company will no longer have to pay for commercial spaces. You’re an independent contractor. So, they don’t have to pay for your healthcare. They don’t have to pay for your benefits. So, they’re going to save money by using you. Not to mention freelancers can specialize in something. So, if you hire an employee to work in photography, you’re kind of expecting them to learn a bunch of different stuff in it whereas with a freelancer, you could look up specifically a photo editor who has worked with Instagram or you can look up exactly the expert that you need, work with them on that project. And you can come back to freelancers multiple times like if you find one that you love specifically for one thing in your business, you can use them over and over again. It’s not just like one project and goodbye. And on the freelancer side of things, you get to work from home or anywhere in the world, you can do whatever. And you can you can put in as much or as little as you want. If you only want to work four hours a day, you’re probably not going to hit the six or seven-figure mark but you could still have a pretty good income just working four hours a day and anywhere you want. So, it’s because of those two things, I don’t see how it won’t be the future for every industry.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. And I think it’s going to serve that way for several reasons. A few people are wanting to give you their feedback. Laura Renaud. She’s based in Arizona and she says she loves this content. Thank you for sharing, Alex.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Thank you, Laura.

Eddie Turner:

Maria is chiming in again. She says “I love that Alex followed her interest and I do see that Fiverr can be very helpful to jumpstart a business.”

Alexandra Fasulo:

You are right, Maria. It is.

Eddie Turner:

And she says “Freelancing provides a lot of flexibility. Glad to hear Alex’s success.”

Alexandra Fasulo:

Thank you.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you, Maria. Thank you, Laura, for chiming in. Thank you to everyone who’s chimed in in our conversation so far.If you haven’t had a chance to give us your feedback and say hello, let us know where you’re joining from. We invite you to do so as we head to the tail end. If you have a question for Alex, this is an opportunity to ask an expert. And so, we invite you to do so.

Alex, you’ve also done some really wonderful things. You were talking about your mom earlier. I saw that you did something special for her.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Oh, with the house?

Eddie Turner:

Yes.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Yeah. People were saying to me like “Oh, did you buy it for her?” and I’m like “I did but she always was always going to give me the money back when she sold her house in Albany” but I just wanted to give her the option to move to Florida sooner than that. We didn’t know if it was going to take like two years to sell the Albany house. Who knew? So, I was like “You know what, it’s just money” like “Who cares?” and I want to go to Florida. I don’t want to be in New York state anymore. No hates, New York State. Born and raised. I just like didn’t want to pay the taxes. I didn’t want to deal with the weather anymore. So, I was like “Why not?” We we’re always fluid with our money, especially the business she and I run together. I think more families should embrace that instead of “It’s me. It’s mine. It’s no one else’s.” Your family is family and I know there’s of course some crazy family members but the good ones, you can really use them in your business because there’s no one like family.

Eddie Turner:

No one like family. You’re a remarkable young woman. Thank you so much for sharing your story and for being such a beacon of light. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this conversation with you and it certainly puts a new emphasis, at least for me, on leadership that being an entrepreneur, being a freelancer, an independent contractor, you are leading. You’ve shown us how you’ve led through self-discipline of running your business, of trying to add Fiverr to get things done. You’ve shown it to be an entrepreneur. And then not only be an entrepreneur, I think, you’ve uh referred to the fact that you have other people that work for you now. You don’t do it all yourself.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Correct.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. So, on so many levels, you are a leader. You are leading and you are what I call one of our younger emerging leaders but you’ve already emerged. You’re here.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Thank you, Eddie.

Eddie Turner:

And Maria says finally “Alex is definitely a beacon of light. I agree.”

Alexandra Fasulo:

Thank you, Maria.

Eddie Turner:

Alex, I wish you continued success. Thank you for being a guest on Keep Leading LIVE™, showing us how to lead as a freelancer.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Got it.

Eddie Turner:

All right, thank you.

Alexandra Fasulo:

Thank you, Eddie.

Eddie Turner:

And thank you for tuning in. That concludes this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you, as I do every week, that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 109 | How to Make 6-Figures as a Freelancer | Alex Fasulo appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 108 | Attracting Top Leadership Talent | Bill Humbert

admin — Sun, 16 May 2021 07:43:32 +0000

Bill Humbert
The Recruiter Guy
Attracting Top Leadership Talent

Episode Summary
How do you get the best leaders in an organization? Sometimes they are developed internally. At other times you have to look outside. When you look outside your organization, how can you know what to look for so you’re not just throwing a dart? How can you attract, acquire, and retain great leaders? Bill Humbert, The Recruiter Guy, explains the secrets of the recruiting world in this episode.

Detailed Episode Summary
https://c-suitenetwork.com/advisors/attracting-top-leadership-talent/

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Nationally known as an engaging speaker, expert talent attraction consultant, and career transition professional with two published books (third book soon to be available via pre-sales), Bill is looking forward to meeting you!

He has talent attraction experience since 1981, contributing to the success of companies by attracting top talent – and training clients to attract top talent after his engagement is complete. Bill’s talent attraction consultant business is unique within the United States. Bill works with one company and charges a flat monthly fee for recruitment and top talent consulting. Therefore, his clients span many different industries and locations.

He is a national member of the National Speakers Association who motivates his audience to learn methods to improve their productivity while enjoying their job. Talent acquisition is more complex than top talent attraction. The outcome of his speech, Make Your Company ROAR (Recruit, Onboard, Actuate, and Retain), is higher success attracting top talent and retaining them as part of an engaged workforce. His speeches are conversations with his audience. He loves to meet members of the audience before a speech to learn their views of a topic and address areas of concern during his public conversation. All speeches are customized, so clients receive the best outcome from their engagement with RecruiterGuy.

He is a national television guest with over 102 television interviews, including on CNN Headline News, third party eBook author, podcast guest, and national radio guest. He creates new content upon request from his clients. He is passionate about his topics, including proper goal setting, where he discusses how he set a goal to hitchhike from Washington, DC to Los Angeles, CA in 5 days – and was successful in both 1969 and 1970. Then translate proper goal setting to increase employee engagement. Remember, a goal-setting and achieving employee is, by definition, an engaged employee. Raise your company’s productivity with engaged employees!

Website
https://recruiterguy.com/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/recruiterguy/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/RecruiterGuy81

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/RecruiterGuys.Guide

Get Your Copy of Bill’s Books!
https://recruiterguy.com/talent-attraction-books/

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Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information
www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com

Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
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Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact. I do that primarily through the power of executive coaching, masterful facilitation, and motivational speaking.How can organizations attract the best leaders? Sometimes, you develop them internally. At other times, organizations have to look outside but that can often seem like you’re simply throwing a dart and it lands anywhere. How can organizations be more targeted in their ability to attract, acquire, and retain great leaders? To answer that question, I’ve invited a very special guest, a gentleman who I am proud to call my good friend. He is a talent attraction expert. He’s also known as the Recruiter Guy, Bill Humbert. He is in high demand. He is in such high demand for his expertise that he’s appeared on regional or national television speaking on the topic of talent attraction and job search over 120 times. Here with me today to explain how we can attract top leadership talent is the Recruiter Guy, Bill Humbert.

Bill, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Bill Humbert:

Thank you so much, Eddie. I’m so happy to be here. This is great.

Eddie Turner:

Bill, tell us a little bit more about who you are.

Bill Humbert:

Well, I have a good reason to be called the Recruiter Guy. I started recruiting in 1981. So, even though I have an English degree, I figured out that that was 40 years ago. And part of my passion for recruiting is where else can I attract top talent and give them to companies, well, I don’t really give them, but present them to companies and they help that company accelerate and become much more profitable. And at the same time, where else can I take somebody who maybe is under a bad manager or is in a company that’s not succeeding very well and introduce them to my client and have them just completely blossom in their career. And that’s the reason I’m passionate about what it is that I do.

Eddie Turner:

And I can tell you’re passionate. By the way, I omitted the fact that you’ve put your knowledge on this topic in a couple of books. Tell us the title of those books.

Bill Humbert:

These are on the career research side. Recruiter Guy’s Guide to Finding a Job was my first book. My second book was Employee 5.0: Secrets of a Successful Job Search in the New World Order. And right now, we’re getting really close on the third book Expect Success: The Science of the Over 50 Career Search.

Eddie Turner:

Oh wow! I bet that will be a source of really good encouragement and aid to a lot of people because I’m hearing people in that over 50 category talk about the difficulties of a job search.

Bill Humbert:

And that’s true. And what I bring to the table for all these people, Eddie, is I’m a recruiter, so I’m able to pull the curtain back to help them see how to really go about successfully finding the best job.

Eddie Turner:

And how do you do that?

Bill Humbert:

Now, that will take more than 25 or 30 minutes but essentially, one of the real quick things is 74% to 76% of all jobs are filled through networking. 8% of all jobs are filled through posting and what I call praying – “I hope the right person is looking at my résumé.” And 8% are filled through me, through recruiters. So, the best way to find a position that’s a new position, new career for you is to do it through networking.

Eddie Turner:

What an interesting statistic. And I love your phrasing “posting and praying”. That’s very interesting. And that’s so true that oftentimes when you have just responded to a post, you’re very unlikely to hear from anyone and even sometimes going through a recruiter, you may get contacted and you never hear anything back. It is definitely the networking system. So, thank you for giving us the 20-second answer on that. And folks who want to have the full answer just have to book you for a session.

Bill Humbert:

There you go.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah. All right. We’ll tell them how to do that at the end of our interview here. What is the most important action a company should take when they are trying to secure top leadership talent in the attraction phase?

Bill Humbert:

The first step, Eddie, is to understand that recruiting talent attraction is a sales process. It mirrors the sales process perfectly. And unfortunately, Human Resource departments don’t understand that. They try to make it an administrative function because that’s what all the rest of what they do is. So, it’s understandable. I would suggest the executives of the C-suite that they cut the recruiting function out of HR and put it either under the COO or the CFO because that makes far more sense. So, the first step is to understand that they’re in a sales process. Now, in that sales process, the second step is to create a solution to fill the need that you’ve identified on the sales process. And on the recruiting or the talent attraction side, that step is to create a job description. And that means the job description is the foundation of the entire sales process of talent attraction.

Eddie Turner:

Interesting. Bill, you’re saying to all my dear friends in HR where I have spent a little bit of time working that they really should be sales people and because they’re not, they really haven’t done that part of the business the best service.

Bill Humbert:

I hate to say it. A lot of them are my friends too, Eddie, but think about it. When you’re looking at new positions today online, so often what happens is the person goes to apply for the position and in the old days, what did they do? They took their résumé and they faxed it or they emailed it to the recruiter directly. Today, it’s going into an applicant tracking system. Now, that applicant tracking system usually forces them to complete an application before they submit their résumé. This is for professionals. Well, professionals, the top talent, what they do is they go “I’m out of here” because they know very rarely will they ever be contacted after that point. So, why put 25-30 minutes into an application when nobody’s ever going to call you? It’s unfortunate but that’s what companies are doing today. And so, they’re treating it as an administrative process – “We’ll get all our paperwork done first even though it’s electronic and then we’ll worry about attracting them.” Well, I’m sorry, that’s too late.

Eddie Turner:

Well, Bill, you make a lot of sense on that and that’s why I want just to highlight that point because it is so true. I can’t tell you the number of senior people who are extremely talented who’ve said it precisely what you just said. And as a result, companies can almost draw a dotted line to their ability to be a high-performance organization and this process.

Bill Humbert:

Oh, absolutely. It’s totally together.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah. As I’ve listened to you speak, you’ve made a differentiation between attracting and acquisition. Tell me more about that.

Bill Humbert:

So, think about it. Talent attraction is becoming a company where people want to come and join you. Talented acquisition, even by the name, almost sounds like it’s an administrative process. Now, I can tell you what’s going to happen. Talent attraction is going to get really successful when people start realizing that it’s a much better way of going about it and then HR departments are going to say “Well, we’re going to call it talent attraction too but they still have to fill out that application before they submit their résumé.” That’s the way it works.

Eddie Turner:

That makes me think about the Blue-Chip companies that, as you say, people want to work for. Whether there’s a job opening or not, there’s always a top ten list of organizations that anybody would love to work for and then there’s everyone else. And so, is this what you’re referring to when you say the talent attraction?

Bill Humbert:

That absolutely is.

Eddie Turner:

Very nice. Very nice way of thinking about that. So, what’s the best source for organizations to go to? You said maybe not HR on this but if people want to get the attraction phase right, what’s the best source to go to?

Bill Humbert:

Well, there’s a couple of things that they probably should do. First of all, they should pay attention to their website because if a person is interested in a company, what are they going to do? They’re going to start typing in the URL to the website and go to the website. For me, it’s very interesting when it’s difficult to find careers on a company website. There’s one major telecommunications firm whose name I’m not going to give you but I will tell you that they’ve been around just about forever. And if you search for careers on their home page, even at the bottom, it’s not there. Now, if this is a sales process and they need a ton of people, wouldn’t it make sense to tell everybody about that, make it easy? So, on the website, on the home page, especially companies that are growing quickly, it’s important to get out there, I know marketing owns the web page, but get out there and say “We’re hiring” and just allow people to click on that and have it go directly to the list of openings. Marketing has demonstrated that every time a group of people have to click to find a list of openings on a website, you lose half of them.

Eddie Turner:

That’s substantial.

Bill Humbert:

So, you start at 400. You go to 200 and you go to 100 in just three steps, three clicks. Now, who left in that first 200? Top talent.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. So, there’s a price to pay for not having this done right.

Bill Humbert:

Exactly.

Eddie Turner:

And how do companies capture the metrics on that?

Bill Humbert:

Well, it’s easy for the companies that actually track. The marketing companies, they can see how many clicks are on for each page. And so, they can track it.

Eddie Turner:

So, truly a case of less is more.

Bill Humbert:

True. If you put “Careers” or you put “We’re hiring” and you make it one click to get to that list, you’re going to capture a whole lot more of the candidates. And then make it easy for those people to submit their résumés.

Eddie Turner:

Make it easy. Make it simple. Make it quick. Now, that brings our HR friends back into the picture. Are we really hiring the right people in Human Resources since, as you described, much of this tends to just be administrative tasking?

Bill Humbert:

Well, when you consider the list of topics that’s on the Society for Human Resource Management website, all of them, except talent attraction, they call it talent acquisition, are administrative tasks – Compensation, Benefits, Employee Relations. You can just go down the list. So, they’re hiring the right people for those areas. What they’re not doing is they’re not hiring sales professionals to be their recruiters or their talent attraction specialist or I call them recruiters because that’s what I am.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Is there any organization out there that you look at and say “Wow! They’re getting it right. They’re the best example, best in class.”

Bill Humbert:

Well, I’ll tell you, Amazon is having a lot of success right now. And part of the reason they are is they’re allowing their employees to get involved in that process. And so, if someone comes in through an employee, the employee gets a little bit of a spiff and also, at that point, they move that person’s résumé up to a higher level because they’ve been introduced that way. And I’m sure that that’s part of the reason why they’ve hired so many people in the past year.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, I seem to hear their name a lot, now that you’ve mentioned it.

Bill Humbert:

Yeah.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Very good, Bill Humbert. We’re talking to him. He is the Recruiter Guy. He is a talent attraction expert and he’s explaining how we can attract top leadership talent. We’ll have more with Bill right after this.

This is Patricia Fripp, the Presentation Skills Expert, and you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with my friend, Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

We’re back, everyone. I’m talking to Bill Humbert. Bill is known as the Recruiter Guy. He’s a talent attraction expert who’s appeared on regional or national television speaking about talent attraction and job search over 120 times. He’s the author of two bestselling books with a third on the way. We’re talking about how we attract top leadership talent.Before the break, Bill, you were explaining to us how companies are attracting talent, how they can do it and who is doing that the best and we talked a little bit about applicant tracking systems but we didn’t really get into that detail. In the old days, you could reach out to certain job titles and kind of get in by making a direct plea to a hiring manager. You can’t do that anymore. You have to go through the system literally and these applicant tracking systems put a huge firewall up for that reason. Can you tell us a little bit about how they work?

Bill Humbert:

You talk about favorite topics. So, first of all companies, do a poor job in writing job descriptions, number one. Number two, applicant tracking systems quickly scan a person’s résumé and then they measure it against the job description that the applicant tracking system has. And if that person doesn’t have 88% of the correct keywords, they get dinged every time. For instance, let’s say you graduated from Harvard University with a major that’s the right one for this position. You probably would not put high school diploma on your résumé. That’s my guess. If the job description has the three words ‘high school diploma’, you get dinged, even though you graduated from Harvard.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, yes or the fact that you’ve graduated from Harvard but it wasn’t specifically in the area that they said they want the person but you have other experience that could account for that.

Bill Humbert:

Exactly, exactly. And so, if the job description is poorly written, even though the person’s a perfect fit, they don’t match up well and they don’t get selected for an interview.

Eddie Turner:

Which is why a lot of people really dislike those systems.

Bill Humbert:

Exactly. Well, that’s the reason 74% to 76% of all jobs are filled through networking. They just go around HR.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah. And, Bill, the other reason that I hear people talking about their dislike of these systems is because they always force you to put in a salary requirement and negotiate against yourself.

Bill Humbert:

I have a hack for that.

Eddie Turner:

Go ahead. Tell us.

Bill Humbert:

Here it is, folks. So, they will not allow you to write the word ‘open’, ‘negotiable’, anything like that. They force you to put a number. The Recruiter Guy hack is write the number 1.

Eddie Turner:

Okay.

Bill Humbert:

In every place where they look for a salary requirement or what do you seek or the salary that your current salary is, which in 23 locations you can’t do that anymore, it’s illegal. So, you write the number 1. And then what happens is they get to your résumé, you got lucky and they picked you out of the crowd and they go “You know, I saw in your application that it said 1 was what you were looking for.” So, you play Mickey the Dunce.

Eddie Turner:

Okay.

Bill Humbert:

And you say “Ah, it says 1? I put a number in there.” Now, the person that’s asking you that question, their hard drive just went on spin. And so, you capitalize on that moment and you say “You know, I was just thinking job descriptions are usually poorly written and my résumé I wrote to mirror the job description so that you would pick me. Wouldn’t you agree that if I liked you and you liked me, we would find some middle ground?”

Eddie Turner:

But what if they take that as not being totally forthright with them?

Bill Humbert:

Well, that’s the reason you network.

Eddie Turner:

Okay.

Bill Humbert:

Okay. So, they don’t understand they’re in a sales situation. In a sales situation, you negotiate. Well, in any negotiation, the first party to put a number on the table loses.

Eddie Turner:

That’s a good rule of thumb.

Bill Humbert:

Yeah, think about real estate. What’s the first thing you do when you want to sell your house? The realtor says “Okay, it’s worth X number of dollars.” And so you have four people come through your house and unless the real estate market is on fire, which it is in a lot of the US right now, but if it’s not on fire, the person goes to the house, “Yeah, I like it. It doesn’t have this, doesn’t have that and I’m going to make an offer last.” Well, the same thing happens when you’re conducting your salary negotiation. If you put a number on the table, they’ll say “Well, we got to train you for that and we got to do this.” And so, they start to try to lower whatever it is. It’s best not to give a number and let them value the position at the company level and then extend an offer to you. I have an entire script in all my books.

Eddie Turner:

Okay. Well, here, ladies and gentlemen, is another reason to pick up Bill’s books which we’ll put a link to the books. At the end of the recording, you’ll have a link to the books on the KeepLeadingPodcast.com website.Bill, I want to play old school, new school.

Bill Humbert:

Okay.

Eddie Turner:

Ready?

Bill Humbert:

Yeah.

Eddie Turner:

In the old days, and I say this because I felt like I used to know a little bit about job search but a) I haven’t had a job in eight years, I’ve been working for myself but b) I haven’t had to really keep up with these, but my knowledge on this comes from working with clients and hearing their stories and what we talk about. So, old school, new school.Reference checks. Old school? New school?

Bill Humbert:

Well, reference checks have been around forever. And so, what happened was most of these companies were smaller back in the day and they were in smaller communities. And so, a manager went to hire Eddie and they’d call somebody they knew that you used to work for and say “Hey, I just wanted to find out about Eddie. Can you tell me about his work habits? Are there any areas that you feel he needs improvement? Where did he absolutely start? And you know a little bit about my company and its area and our culture. Do you think he’d be a fit for the culture?” That person’s generally going to tell you the truth because they’re going to want to make the return phone call when they get somebody that you know, okay? And so, what happens is that person gives you the straight scoop. Now, as a recruiter, I’ve had people say “Well, those are all his friends.” I said “Well, you know, that’s not a good assumption to make, number one. And number two, let me tell you about an experience I had.” And this is true. I called a reference one time for a woman. And I could tell she was very good from a technical perspective and I called her most recent manager. And when I told the manager the name of the person who used her name as a reference, the manager burst out laughing and she said “I cannot believe she used my name because I fired her two weeks ago.”

Eddie Turner:

Oh my! Well, so, it was something that was standard and open in the old school. In the new school, is that still a good practice to do reference checks?

Bill Humbert:

It absolutely is. Companies are complaining all over the place “We can’t find a good cultural fit.” Well, guess what, the reference check is where that happens.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Even if it is a list of their friends, there can still be valid people to check on them with.

Bill Humbert:

I’ve done a lot of reference checks over the years. In my experience, if the person who’s the reference is a good friend but they feel that this person is not a good fit for that job, they’ll tell you but you have to ask the right questions. You can’t ask “Did they work there from such and such to so and so? Was their title, da, da, da, da? Were they eligible for rehire? Okay, thank you and go away.” That tells you nothing.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Old school, new school – do I still need a paper résumé on nice fancy paper?

Bill Humbert:

Not so much. I mean, it’s good to take a nice résumé to an interview and give it to whoever’s interviewing you. And so, from that perspective, I’d say yes but you don’t mail it.

Eddie Turner:

Okay. And when we talk about old school, new school, things that used to be the standard and are no longer the standard, what’s something that I’m not thinking about?

Bill Humbert:

There’s such a focus on human resources and them providing résumés. And remember again I’m a recruiter. My feeling is that managers should be the ones creating short lists. For instance, the University of Utah just maybe in the last month fired their basketball coach. Within 11 days they had a new basketball coach signed up and ready to start. That means the athletic director, and I know all the athletic directors do this, they keep a short list of top talent that they will go after if they need them. And I believe that that’s what all managers should do. Get it out of HR’s hands, keep a list of your own top talent, you can meet them at conferences, you can meet them maybe in a previous company but you know who it is that you want to put on to your team next.

Eddie Turner:

So, taking them out of the hands of HR and letting the managers drive that decision making because they know who they need, they know who they want and they have a better pulse on what’s happening.

Bill Humbert:

They do.

Eddie Turner:

All right, good, good. Anything else that I’m not thinking about when we think about the old way things were done and the new way if we want to be hired or if we want to attract the top leaders?

Bill Humbert:

Well, it’s always good to network. As a recruiter, that’s what I do, that’s how I find candidates. I call people and I say “My current client is” whatever the name of the company is “and I’m looking for a person with these skills. Who would you recommend that I talk to next?” And what I’m doing there is I’m trolling. If I know that person is one that’s got all the right skills, I’ll talk to them and tell them about the company and what a great company is and the benefits and how their retention of their top talent is so high. And then I’ll say “So, who do you feel I should speak with next?” I take it away from them. And then they go “What about me?”

Eddie Turner:

Well, what about me?

Bill Humbert:

That’s the best way to recruit.

Eddie Turner:

All right, very good. Well, Bill, I have thoroughly enjoyed talking to you and learning more about how to attract top leadership talent to organizations and as a leader how to maybe get into an organization using some of the techniques that you’ve shared. What is the main message you want to leave our listeners with?

Bill Humbert:

I think it’s very important for companies to set goals for the candidates. And that should be part of the job description. So, set the three-month, six-month, nine-month and 12-month goals early in the process for that position. I understand that’ll tweak over time but when you do that, now the candidates know exactly what the first year looks like. That’s a way for you to then measure during your interviews, create the questions that determines whether the person has the skills, the experience or the attributes to be successful in that position the first year. That helps you to select the right person out of the four or 10 interviews that you have. That helps you on board that person because then the manager talks to them about the goals and says “If there’s any place in this where you need help, I’ll be happy to help you.” And then that helps your retention. You hear companies complaining about “We can’t retain people.” Well, the problem is companies have gotten away from setting goals properly. And when you set the three-month, six-month, nine-month, and 12-month goals, at the end of the year, there is no dart to be thrown on the “exceeds” or “meets expectation” dart board. You know exactly whether they met their goals or they didn’t. And so, that’s what I want to leave everybody with. If you want to retain top talent, work with them to set proper goals and now they’ve got a track to run on and they’re excited to receive those because very few people do it.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you, Bill. And where can my listeners learn more about you?

Bill Humbert:

I’m easy. I’m kind of all over the place out there but the best way to find me is RecruiterGuy.com.

Eddie Turner:

RecruiterGuy.com. We’ll drop a link in the show notes and people can visit your website, follow you on LinkedIn and Twitter using that location.Thank you for being a guest on the Keep Leading!® Podcast and helping us learn how to attract top leadership talent.

That concludes this episode everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 108 | Attracting Top Leadership Talent | Bill Humbert appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 107 | Handling Conflict as a Leader | Jennifer Goldman-Wetzler, Ph.D.

admin — Mon, 03 May 2021 09:18:03 +0000

Jennifer Goldman-Wetzler, Ph.D.
CEO, Executive Coach, and Author of Optimal Outcomes
Handling Conflict as a Leader

Episode Summary
Conflict is part of our lives. As leaders, it can derail our success at work and Home. In this episode, Dr. Jen Goldman-Wetzler explains how to deal with conflict more effectively and achieve conflict resolution or conflict freedom.

Detailed Episode Summary
https://c-suitenetwork.com/advisors/handling-conflict-as-a-leader/

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Dr. Jennifer Goldman-Wetzler is the founder and CEO of Alignment Strategies Group, the New York consulting firm that helps CEOs and their executive teams optimize organizational health and growth.

In the corporate arena, Jennifer advises innovative technology, healthcare, financial, and professional services companies. She has served clients including CSC, IBM, Intel, athenahealth, Novartis, Oscar Health Insurance, Roche, Barclays, GE Capital, Moody’s, Cornerstone Research, Lexis Nexis, Navigant, and KPMG.

In the public sector, she enables teams to optimize organizational impact at Jazz at Lincoln Center, the New York City Economic Development Corporation, The New School, and Oxfam America.

She is the author of OPTIMAL OUTCOMES: Free Yourself from Conflict at Work, at Home, and in Life (HarperBusiness, 2020), selected as a Financial Times Book of the Month.

She is a keynote speaker at Fortune 500 companies, public institutions, and leading startups, including Google, Harvard Law School, and the United Nations. A former counterterrorism fellow with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, she earned her Ph.D. in Social-Organizational Psychology from Columbia University and has taught conflict freedom at Columbia for a decade.

Website
https://jengoldmanwetzler.com/

Other Website
http://alignmentstrategiesgroup.com/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jen-goldman-wetzler/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/JGoldmanWetzler

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/jgoldmanwetzler

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/jgoldmanwetzler/

Optimal Outcomes Assessments
https://jengoldmanwetzler.com/optimal-outcomes-assessments/

Leadership Quote
“Prevention is the best medicine.” – Dr. Morton Deutsch, widely considered the father of conflict resolution and one of my mentors

Get Your Copy of Jennifer’s Book!
https://jengoldmanwetzler.com/the-book/

Subscribe, Share and Review

Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information
www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com

Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Conflict. It’s a part of all of our lives. As leaders, it can derail our success at work and at home. How can we deal with conflict more effectively? How can we achieve conflict resolution or conflict freedom? Here to answer that important question is a conflict expert. My guest today is Dr. Jen Goldman-Wetzler. Dr. Jennifer Goldman-Wetzler is an award-winning conflict consultant who, through her book Optimal Outcomes: Free Yourself from Conflict at Work, at Home and In Life, offers a new path to take when agreement and collaboration seem impossible. And this is an amazing book that has received rave reviews from some of the highest authorities in business and academia and it was selected as the book of the month by Financial Times.

Jennifer, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Dr. Jennifer:

Thank you so much, Eddie. Thanks for having me.

Eddie Turner:

I’m so excited to have you here, Jennifer. I’ve read your book. Thank you for sending me an advanced copy. And I’ve read what other people have said about it. Tell us a little bit about yourself before we get into your book.

Dr. Jennifer:

I am an organizational psychologist and I lead a company called Alignment Strategies Group where we help CEOs and their teams to deal with conflict and collaborate more effectively and talk across lines of difference. My background is in Social Psychology. I have a PhD in Organizational Psychology with a specialty in intractable conflict. And my PhD was funded by the US Department of Homeland Security as I had a fellowship with them all five years of my work. And I’ve been in this business for a long, long time, working with clients in all different sectors from government to start-up to non-profit and corporate and love working with leaders and love talking to people like you.

Eddie Turner:

Fascinating. And something else I found interesting about you, especially when we’re going to talk about conflict, you’ve done a little work with the United Nations, Harvard Law School, Google and you mentioned the Department of Homeland Security but you also did some kind of terrorism work, you were a fellow.

Dr. Jennifer:

Yes, a research fellow.

Eddie Turner:

All fascinating. You say it as if “Oh, it’s just Tuesday.” Jennifer, this is a big deal.

Dr. Jennifer:

Thank you for pointing that out. I appreciate that very much. When it’s part of your life, you don’t think about it that way but yes, it was a tremendous time. I mean, I was at the US Department of Homeland Security as a research fellow in 2002 until 2007. I did a couple of internships. So, I was not there full time but all of my research was on how the emotion of humiliation drives conflict and kind of applying that to the realm of international terrorism. And so, it was a fascinating time to be there. The department had just been created. There was a really interesting group of people doing Social Science research and that is the group that I was with. They were and I imagine continue to do, although I’m not directly involved these days, but do really important work.

Eddie Turner:

Absolutely. So, it’s not every day that we get a chance to talk to someone about conflict at your level even though we all have conflict every day. Jen, I think we all know what conflict is. We know when we’re interacting with someone and it doesn’t feel right. We know when we’re avoiding someone or maybe in some cases not perhaps treating them the way we should because that conflict is there. Is there a time where conflict is not something that’s bad but it’s actually good for leaders to have in their life?

Dr. Jennifer:

Yes, absolutely. There are times when conflict can be a healthy thing. It can lead to more creativity. On teams, when you have diverse perspectives, it can lead to greater innovation. And as much as we’ve all had experience with conflict that didn’t go well, we’ve probably all experienced sometimes where there was conflict that did turn out okay or even better than okay where we came to a more innovative or creative solution that we couldn’t have come to otherwise. The thing that I like to help people do is to distinguish between when is it healthy, when is this conflict healthy and helping us get to those more innovative creative solutions and then when is it destructive and when is it kind of in between but where’s that line, when is it not helpful, when is it not productive. And it’s the part where we get into “This is not productive. Either I’m going around and around in circles and not getting the answers that I need or we’re not coming up with the solutions that we thought we were going to or I feel like I’m banging my head up against the wall trying to get someone to do something else that they are simply resisting and not doing” or there’s kind of conflict under the surface that’s bubbling up every now and again and then dying down and then bubbling up and at some point, I know it’s likely to explode and I don’t want to see that happen and I don’t know what to do about that. Those are the kinds of situations that concern me the most and that I tend to be most helpful to people about, about dealing with that, about how do you free yourself from those kinds of situations.

Eddie Turner:

You just described perhaps half of the individuals I’m working with as an executive coach dealing with their fellow co-workers or their leaders in their organizations and perhaps some people who I know in relationships. So, how do they handle that?

Dr. Jennifer:

Well, the first thing to do before you can do anything about a situation that isn’t going well for you is to simply stop and pause and notice what is going on. So, one easy way that I like to help people do that is that there are four conflict habits that we tend to get ourselves stuck in. We tend to use these in a habitual way and they keep us stuck in conflict. And there’s actually a really simple easy seven-minute free quiz that people could take online if they’re interested at OptimalOutcomesBook.com/assessment and it’s called the Conflict Habits Quiz. There are two different quizzes at that site.

Eddie Turner:

We’ll make a note of that and put that in the link for folks to take that.

Dr. Jennifer:

Great. So, the four conflict habits are basically, we either blame other people, some of us blame and shame ourselves, some of us shut down in the face of recurring conflict. So, we avoid, avoid, avoid like I was describing before until typically something explodes and we don’t know what to do about it. So, we shut down in the face of conflict. And then others of us, somewhat counterintuitively, we relentlessly seek to collaborate with other people and yet we’re not getting anywhere. We’re sinking time, energy, money, resources into trying to achieve a “win-win” solution with someone else who’s just not playing along with us, they’re not cooperating back with us. So, each of these four habits can be useful and can lead to healthy conflict outcomes like we were talking about before unless we’re using them in such a habitual way that they are the only way we know. And each of us tends to have a default way of operating, which is why I call it your conflict habit. There’s one primary way that each of us tends to from how we learn to be when we were young in our family of origin or what we learned from coaches or teachers or spiritual leaders growing up. We see those models. We learn ways to deal with conflict based on how we grew up and then we do those over and over and over again. And at a certain point, like those executives that you were talking about a few moments ago, it just gets in our way. And so, the question is what can we do to put a break and interrupt those habitual patterns so that we can do something different. And that’s the first step is really to notice “Which one of these conflict habits do I tend to use?” And then the second thing is to ask ourselves “Well, what else could I do that would break that habitual response?”

Eddie Turner:

That’s really true. I can tell you about some people that I work with and they’ve described how they saw certain behaviors demonstrated in their family, certain behaviors demonstrated in their religious community and perhaps they find themselves conflict avoidant. They’re not a person that’s violent or dangerous. They just get silent and they just walk away from conflict. And that’s their default mode. They don’t know any other way of handling it. And you’re saying they should be able to examine that, come to grips with that’s who they are and now, “How is that working for you? Here’s something else you can try.” And you give an outline of this and you give stories in your book.

Dr. Jennifer:

Yes, right, absolutely. I mean, avoidance is also an interesting one because it can seem like “Well, I’m not in conflict. I’m just not [inaudible][11:07] at all” but I think sometimes those of us who habitually avoid conflict, we don’t see our part in it or if we do, we only see our side of it, which is that you know there’s radio silence, there’s nothing going on but actually for the other person or people involved, it can be incredibly challenging for them to know what to do when they may not share our habit.

Eddie Turner:

After all being quiet and silent means I’m being peaceful, right?

Dr. Jennifer:

Right, exactly. That’s a real misunderstanding of your own contribution. It could be a misunderstanding of your own contribution to the situation. This idea of contribution was popularized by the book Difficult Conversations in 1999. So, it’s been around for a long time but this idea that it takes two to tango, it’s usually not one person’s 100% responsibility and the other person is 0% but more like a mixture and it can be really helpful to ask ourselves “What is my contribution here?” So, I like to talk about the habits as they interact with each other and they form a pattern of interaction that keeps us stuck on what I call this conflict loop. So, if you feel like you’re going around and around and around and not getting anywhere, that’s how you know that you’re stuck. So, you could have one person who has a blame conflict habit interacting with someone else who also has a blame conflict habit and they’re blaming, blaming, blaming, blaming sometimes until finally one or the other of them shuts down and kind of goes away but that’s a blame-blame cycle versus a different kind of cycle could be a relentlessly collaborate-shutdown where one person is constantly kind of pursuing the other trying to collaborate, get the other person say “Here’s the options. What do you think? Here’s what I could do for you. Here’s what I could recommend” and the other person just kind of running away or avoiding, avoiding, avoiding. So, that’s a different example of a conflict loop.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you. To resolve this, many people say “I need conflict resolution skills.” So, they take a program or they read a book but you introduce something in your book I’ve not heard of before and you have a concept you call Conflict Freedom.

Dr. Jennifer:

Yes. And that is because my experience over the last 40 years with the idea of conflict resolution is that it just simply doesn’t always work. So, I came up through the field of conflict and negotiation studying at the program on Negotiation at Harvard Law School, out of which came the book Getting To Yes which is an international bestseller, it continues to be incredibly helpful to people all over the world in business and government, all kinds of settings, personal settings. And that book really lays out a very clear and incredibly helpful way of seeking to resolve conflicts and create principled negotiation or win-win negotiation outcomes. The problem is that it just doesn’t always work. And I know that from my own experience what you described before. Maybe you know it also from your own experience working with leaders and organizations. And also, if we look at the international realm, there are some situations like, for example, in the Middle East that despite some recent wins that we’ve had where countries have made diplomatic agreements that nobody thought was possible even a couple of years ago, I remember when I was first getting into this work in the mid-‘90s, the Oslo Peace Accords looked like they were going well and then all of a sudden completely literally blew up. And so, that was the context in which I said “There has to be something that we can offer people when these win-win methodologies don’t work.” And that is what conflict freedom is all about. It’s all about saying when you notice that you’re stuck on that conflict loop going around and around, your job is to stop, notice where you are, notice what habits are involved and what the pattern is that you’re stuck in with other people and then map out a way out and at core really asking yourself “What could I do that would be different from what I’ve done before?” And I describe that as pattern breaking action – “How could I take pattern breaking action in this case, action that would be completely different, it would be surprising, it would be simple and it would be a series of actions to help get us out of that conflict loop towards an optimal outcome?”

Eddie Turner:

What’s an example of one of those actions I can take if I find myself in this situation? I have identified it and here I am.

Dr. Jennifer:

Well, let’s just say, for example, that you’ve identified that your conflict habit is relentlessly collaborate. So, you’ve been offering option after option and asking the other person or people involved how you can help you and them come to an agreement and you’re not getting any response, like I described before. You’re relentlessly collaborating and they’re in the shutdown. So, that’s your loop with them. So, what’s something different that you could do? You could first of all be more direct. You could try something like “Hey, this is what I need.” That’s a pretty different response or pretty different way of interacting than saying “Here’s another option. Here’s another option we could try.” This is just “Hey, this is what I need.”

Eddie Turner:

So, instead of another option, you kind of bottom line it.

Dr. Jennifer:

Yeah, just more direct and about your own needs and caring less about theirs. And then maybe that will help. It’s surprising. It’s something that might surprise them because you’ve been all trying to make it work for them and now, you’re coming at it as “Look, actually, I’m not going to try to make it work for you. This is what I need.” So, doing something more direct. You could also try shutting down yourself for a little while. This is not necessarily an advisable thing to do in all situations but in a situation where someone has been sending you the message “I do not want to talk about this right now,” if it’s a situation where maybe you don’t actually need to come to an agreement right away today or tomorrow. Maybe you could let yourself cool off over a weekend or let it go for a few days and see what might happen. Sometimes, what will happen is the other person will be so surprised, they’ll be like peeking their head out wondering “Where did she go? Where did he go?” like “What happened to him?” So, that’s the thing about the element of surprise being one of the three pieces of pattern breaking action it’s that it can jolt the other person out of their habitual way of responding as well in a good way.

Eddie Turner:

Conflict Freedom. You’ve got to break the pattern and introduce a little bit of an element of surprise there, be a little bit more direct and maybe try to shut down if necessary. Thank you for sharing those two options with us and helping us understand the difference between conflict freedom and conflict resolution. We may not always get a resolution but we can always be free. I love that concept.

Dr. Jennifer:

Eddie, I do just want to clarify. The two ideas that I just threw out there were specific to somebody who’s been relentlessly collaborating. I think that was probably obvious but I do just want to underscore that I wouldn’t have given you those same answers if we were talking about somebody who had already been shut down. Obviously, if you’ve already been shut down, shutting down more is not going to be pattern breaking for you in that case.

Eddie Turner:

The conflict avoiding person, yes.

Dr. Jennifer:

Give the truth with love with care with respect but go and try to have that conversation. That’s going to break the pattern for you.

Eddie Turner:

That’s a very important distinction. Thank you for clarifying that for me so that we don’t leave with the wrong idea.

Dr. Jennifer:

Yes, I don’t want listeners out there going “Oh, she said that the way to free yourself from conflict is to shut down.” No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. It’s to identify what do you normally do and then do something different from what you normally do.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. I appreciate that.

We’re talking about how we handle conflict as a leader. We’re talking to Jen Goldman-Wetzler and we will have more with Jen right after this.

This is Chester Elton, the Apostle of Appreciation, and you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with the one, the only Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

We’re back everyone. We’re discussing how you and I can handle conflict as a leader. This is important to our careers both at work and at home and we want to be successful. And so, we’re talking with an expert on this, Dr. Jennifer Goldman-Wetzler, an award-winning conflict consultant who, through her book Optimal Outcomes: Free Yourself from Conflict at Work, at Home and in Life, offers a new path to take when agreement and collaboration seem impossible.

Jen, I’m enjoying our discussion and you’ve really shed light on what we can do as leaders but why does this matter?

Dr. Jennifer:

Well, I think, this matters to any leader or manager who has to both directly themselves and also help others deal with conflict in the workplace. When you see people going around and around in circles, this methodology, this framework, and there are eight different practices in the Optimal Outcomes Framework and we’ve only talked about two of them, we’ve talked about noticing the pattern which is the first practice and we’ve talked about one of the later practices which is about identifying what would a pattern breaking set of actions be, creating a pattern breaking path but there are six others as well. So, the real work here is to use these practices to help people get off that conflict loop, stop going around in circles and free themselves.

Eddie Turner:

Do you have an example of how this has worked for these managers that you mentioned in their conflict at work?

Dr. Jennifer:

Yeah, absolutely. So, one situation that I write about in the book that was super difficult and that became much easier and kind of helped enlighten the people that were involved was between a CEO of a design firm, really super smart, flashy, really hyper-talented CEO and his head of Sales and she was also incredibly talented. They were friends in addition to working together and they were stuck on a conflict loop like the one of the ones that we were talking about before, which is that he was a blamer. So, he would blame. Any time that someone did something not the way he expected or wanted them to, he would just go at it and he would yell and just fire coming out of all the different parts of his head. It was not a fun thing to witness for anyone but particularly not for this head of Sales who was a more mild-mannered British person. Her conflict habit was shut down. And so, you can imagine what would happen when they would interact. He would blow up any time he didn’t like something that she did. And what would she do? She would go hide. And sometimes, that would shut down their conversations for days. So, you can imagine how much work got done around the office between them. Not very much. And, of course, this impacted not only the two of them and their relationship but also her entire team of people who reported to her, who would sometimes witness these interactions or lack thereof and it was incredibly destructive in the organization. And so, my work with both of them was to help each of them identify what their own habit was and then to ask them “What could you do differently the next time that happens?” So, it’s not just working with her to help her respond differently and not just working with him to help him respond differently but to be able to work with both of them which I was fortunate enough to be able to do. So, for him, the work was “What will it take when you are upset about something, the way it’s done? What will it take for you to cool your jets and take a deep breath and ask yourself strategically “What is the response I would like to have here, not what is the response that just comes to me and that I just knee-jerk reaction??” And so, that was his work to do and it took some work. This is not like an overnight change but he was able to train himself over time that when he was ready to pick up the phone and yell at somebody, he would put the phone down and train himself to take a walk around the block before he came back and decided what to do.

Eddie Turner:

More of the pattern breaking that you mentioned earlier.

Dr. Jennifer:

Exactly, exactly. So, it can help really to think to yourself “What things do I need to put in place to help me break those patterns?” So, that’s for him. And then for her, really what it was, it was a lot about courage, was learning to say “I might feel like hiding here but I’ve seen how destructive that has been for me, for my team, for my relationship with the CEO. So, I’m going to ask myself to stay strong. And even though it is going to feel so excruciatingly difficult to stay engaged when I would much rather run, I’m going to ask that of myself and I’m going to also put in place things that will help make that easier for me to do.” So, she would have a group of trusted friends around her who she could talk about this with, she had me as her coach who she could talk about this with and really saw it as like building muscles as if she were going to the gym and just every time she would stay in the room. And eventually, she was able to use words and say to him “That is not okay with me when you treat me like that.” And boy, you should have seen the look on his face when she was able to speak those words.

Eddie Turner:

I’m imagining that right now as you say that. What a transformation! And I can imagine how she felt being able to utter those words.

Dr. Jennifer:

Exactly. It’s incredibly empowering. It’s empowering for me to help somebody find those words and find the courage to speak them. And I think it’s also a wonderful learning opportunity and moment for the CEO in this case as well, for him to see, you know what, he can’t continue to go around and treat people this way because the impact is not only on her and on his relationship with her but it also has outward effects in the organization as well and it’s not in his interest to continue acting the way that he is either. And he wanted her to stay. I mean, believe it or not, they had a very long-standing many years’ worth of friendship. And so, he did not want this to be going this way.

Eddie Turner:

I’ve seen that and more by engagement, I care to admit, where, yeah, both people realize they need each other. The senior person may not like that person or have that conflict relationship but they realize this is a top performer, this person’s amazing but sometimes, that leader isn’t willing to adjust their behavior. So, I like that story and I think that many people will benefit from following the skills you’ve outlined, steps you’ve outlined in Optimal Outcomes so that they can make the adjustments.

Dr. Jennifer:

I hope so. And one thing I want to say also about these practices is that they’re designed so that you can do them on your own. So, in the case that I just described, I happened to be coaching both of these people. And so, I could help both of them do this and, of course, do what they needed to do to take pattern-breaking action and, of course, that helps. And I hope you can imagine the situation where, let’s say, I was only working with one of them or only one of them had read the book. That would still be helpful. If only he had cooled his jets, you could imagine that breaks this conflict loop. There’s also an aspect of freeing yourself. That’s why it’s freeing because when you free yourself from the conflict loop, you’re naturally freeing other people as well. She could still be going hiding in a corner but she would have very much less reason to use that habit if he’s not screaming his head off at her every day, right?

Eddie Turner:

Yes.

Dr. Jennifer:

And vice versa. If she built up those muscles he could be screaming like until the cows come home but she will still be standing there and saying “This is not acceptable behavior for me. I’m not going to be in a relationship with someone who yells at me in this way. So, when you’re ready to calm down, let me know.”

Eddie Turner:

Many people miss that idea that if just one person makes a change, the entire relationship can get better or in any of these conflict situations, if it’s just one party who chooses to act different or act at a higher level, it doesn’t have to be both people. In a perfect world, it would be, but we don’t live in a perfect world. In fact, if we had a perfect world where conflicts didn’t exist, then we wouldn’t have Optimal Outcomes as a book.

Dr. Jennifer:

That’s right.

Eddie Turner:

So, since it’s inevitable that we’re always going to have conflict, what is your ideal future?

Dr. Jennifer:

My ideal future is a world in which people develop and practice these practices as a way to learn how to empower ourselves and free ourselves from even the most challenging situations that seem impossible, that seem like we are just going to have to go around and around on this loop forever but actually that we can notice what our habit is, notice what other people’s habits are, notice the pattern we’re stuck in. We can map out the conflict, which we haven’t even talked about yet but we can map out who’s involved, make it more complex than we’ve maybe thought about it in the past and then come to a more leverageable situation that we hadn’t even noticed was happening before where we can look at what are our values and what are our shadow values, what are the things that we really do care about in life but that we would never admit to caring about and also for other people, what might their shadow values be, what’s important to them that they could never even talk about, never admit but that we see are oozing out in ways that they can’t control. How can we work with those? So, these are some of these other practices. So, that’s my ideal world where people see that they can use themselves as instruments to free themselves from situations that seem impossible.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. Well, you’ve given us a lot to think about today. The book again is Optimal Outcomes: Free Yourself from Conflict at Work, at Home, and in Life. And it’s easy to understand the subtitle of the book after talking to you because the suggestions you’ve given us absolutely can benefit us not just at work and our professional careers but at home and in every other aspect of our life.

Thank you, Jen, for sitting down and talking with me today.

Dr. Jennifer:

Thank you so much, Eddie. It’s been a real pleasure and I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you.

Eddie Turner:

And if my listeners want to contact you or follow your work, how do they do that?

Dr. Jennifer:

The best way is to go to OptimalOutcomesBook.com and there is a treasure trove of free resources if you go to the Resources page or OptimalOutcomesBook.com/Resources. That’s also where you’ll find the quizzes and there are 10 different PDFs that are worksheets that you can download that correspond to each of the eight different practices in the book along with a couple of extra bonus ones. So, there’s just a lot to play around with there. And then, of course, you can find me on LinkedIn at Jen Goldman Wetzler and also on Facebook and Twitter as well, J. Goldman Wetzler or Jen Goldman Wetzler as well.

And if you reach out to Jen, tell her that you heard about her on the Keep Leading!® Podcast. We’ll put links to her website, her social media sites as well as the assessment that she mentioned. We’ll put all of that in the show notes so that you can reach out to her, contact her, stay connected and follow her incredible work so that you and I can remove conflict from our life and handle conflict better as leaders.

Thank you again, Jen, for being a guest.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 107 | Handling Conflict as a Leader | Jennifer Goldman-Wetzler, Ph.D. appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 106 | The Power of Perception | Diane Hamilton and Maja Zelihic

admin — Sun, 18 Apr 2021 06:06:48 +0000

Diane Hamilton and Maja Zelihic
Authors of “The Power of Perception”
The Power of Perception

Episode Summary
Dr. Diane Hamilton and Dr. Maja Zelihic discuss their new book, “The Power of Perception.”
They say how we perceive (not what we perceive) influences what we think and believe. In turn, this affects our behaviors. To engage others, we must become more self-aware of our perceptions and those of others.

Detailed Episode Summary
https://c-suitenetwork.com/advisors/the-power-of-perception/

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Diane Hamilton
Dr. Diane Hamilton is a nationally syndicated radio host, speaker, moderator, consultant, and author. She is the former MBA Program Chair at the Forbes School of Business. Dr. Hamilton is the author of multiple books, including Cracking the Curiosity Code: The Key to Unlocking Human Potential. She is the creator of the Curiosity Code Index® assessment. Her groundbreaking work in curiosity has been heralded by some of the biggest names in leadership. Her books continue to be required reading in universities around the world.

Maja Zelihic
Dr. Maja (Maya) Zelihic is a Fulbright Specialist, Full Professor, and a Department Chair of the Advanced Management Studies at the Forbes School of Business and Technology. She is a co-founder of Dima Innovations. Dr. Zelihic is a Global Dialogue Partner at NAFSA, the world’s largest nonprofit association dedicated to international education. Dr. Zelihic serves on the Board of Advisors of the International Fellowship Program in Arbitration and Scientific Assessment, the comprehensive global academic review platform. She also serves as an industry advisory member at the Amity University Novel Communication Lab (AUNCL). Dr. Zelihic is the recipient of the Amity Academy Excellence Award. She is an expert in e-learning development and implementation in the developing world. Dr. Zelihc is a Board member at the Center for Women’s Leadership at the Forbes School of Business and Technology, launched in June of 2020. She was listed as Top 200 Global Leaders to follow in 2021 by PeopleHum.

She is published in more than 20 peer-reviewed journals. Her research ventures took her to Haiti, Cuba, Mexico, Panama, Jordan, Zambia, the Balkan region, and many other parts of the world. She is a global speaker, having presented in 20 countries across the globe. In addition to being a Fulbright specialist, she is a four-time recipient of the University Fellows research grants, enabling many of her global research ventures. Her book on Perception, co-authored with Dr. Diane Hamilton, was released in December 2020. Her chapter contribution to the International Leadership Research Handbook is in the final stages of publishing.

Website – Dr. Diane Hamilton
http://drdianehamilton.com

Website – Dr. Maya Zelihic
https://drmajazelihic.com/

LinkedIn – Dr. Diane Hamilton
https://www.linkedin.com/in/drdianehamilton/

LinkedIn – Dr. Maya Zelihic
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-maja-maya-zelihic-90905a35/

Twitter Dr. Diane Hamilton
https://twitter.com/DrDianeHamilton

Twitter – Dr. Maya Zelihic
https://twitter.com/drmajazelihic

Facebook – Dr.Diane Hamilton
https://www.facebook.com/drdianehamilton/

Instagram – Dr. Diane Hamilton
https://www.instagram.com/drdianehamilton/

Perception Power Index
https://drdianehamilton.com/perception-power-system/perception-power-index/

Leadership Quote
Diane: “I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.”—Albert Einstein
Maja: “Wherever you go, go with all of your heart.”

Get Your Copy of Diane and Maja’s Book!
https://drdianehamilton.com/books-and-training/
https://drmajazelihic.com/books-articles/

Subscribe, Share and Review

Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information
www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com

Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Today, it is essential that we understand when our perceptive powers are working for us and when they’re not. In fact, our perceptions may actually work against us. My guests today believe that being an effective leader means we must become more self-aware of our perceptions and those of others. They’re going to help us shape our perceptions so that we can become more effective leaders in our organizations. My guests today are the authors of The Power of Perception: Eliminating Boundaries to Create Successful Global Leaders.

My first guest is a returning guest. In fact, the first time I’ve had a returning guest on the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the amazing Dr. Diane Hamilton, and you may have heard that first interview with her in episode 4, Cracking the Curiosity Code, She is a phenomenal leader and I can’t wait to hear what Dr. Hamilton shares with us along with her co-author Dr. Maya Zelihic. Both of them are phenomenal folks. I’m going to let them tell you who they are and more about them.

Dr. Hamilton, Dr. Zelihic, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

Thank you, Eddie. It’s so nice to be here. Dr. Zelihic, do you mind if I call you Maya?

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

Absolutely. Thank you, Eddie, so much for this wonderful introduction. We’re happy to be here with you.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you, ladies for being here. And Dr. Diane, she always snaps my hand when I call with Dr. Diane. Okay. So, I’m going to say Diane and Maya.

So, Diane, will you just start by telling us a little bit about yourself?

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

Sure, I’d be happy to. I worked a long time in education and that’s where Maya and I met but I have a background in a lot of different areas. I’ve been in Sales for many decades. I’ve worked in everything from pharmaceuticals to lending, banking, real estate, you name it before I got into the education realm and met Maya. We both have worked as the MBA Program Chair of the Forbes School of Business. After I left, she had that role and now she’s gone on to other things. I’m a dean at another school. And we still have maintained our relationship as friends and colleagues and we thought it would be really interesting to write a book together and that’s what led to our interest in this particular book because we thought we had such unique perceptions from our backgrounds being somewhat different and we thought it’s so important in the working world. So, we collaborated and we created not only the book but the Perception Power Index Assessment to go along with the book.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. Maya, tell us about you?

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

Sure. Well, I’m a Fulbright specialist, professor and department chair at the Forbes School of Business and Technology at the University of Arizona global campus. I’m also a global dialogue partner and I work on a few different industry boards. When it comes to my background, I’m coming from a Finance background prior to the world of academia. And as Diane mentioned, when we met in different capacity at the Forbes School of Business and Technology, we encountered a few situations where we felt that our own perception differ and we were actually teasing each other about it and we were really fascinating about how perception shapes the world of business and how perception impacts our effectiveness as leaders. So, that is how we started with our collaboration which resulted in this book.

Eddie Turner:

So, you all were just talking back and forth and decided “Let’s write a book about this conversation.”

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

At first, we actually encountered a few situations where we realized that our perception is actually influenced by different factors such as our culture, our experiences, our life experiences, our corporate experiences, our emotions to a certain degree, our personality types, our curiosity levels. And at first it was just a conversation. That conversation led to a collaborative research and that research ultimately resulted in this book.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. If my audience hasn’t discovered it yet, both of you are far more educated than I am. Both of these professors, these amazing women with doctorate degrees decided “We’re going to put some deep research behind the answer to this question.” So, tell my audience, for those who may not know, so we’re on the same page, about what exactly perception is.

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

Well, I’d like to address that because I think that we think of perception sometimes of if you see the blue stripes on the dress or the gold stripes on the dress or all the memes that go around the internet of what you see if you’re able to watch a video and a gorilla walks across the screen but you don’t notice and all those kinds of thought experiments come to mind when you say perception but what we were thinking about was how we recognized, how we came across to others and how others came across to us and how we utilized our perception process to come up with our ability to communicate effectively. So, it’s really kind of a combination of, as Maya was kind of saying, which is why we both looked at it, was it was IQ, EQ for emotional quotient, CQ for curiosity quotient and CQ for cultural quotient and you combine these things together and you get this process. And we came up with EPIC as this acronym for the Evaluation, Prediction, Interpretation and Correlation that we go through before we come up with our conclusions that we make. And if you recognize these things as part of how we communicate, then everybody could do a lot more to be successful in a global and very diverse business setting.

Eddie Turner:

Now, you ran together three different acronyms right there and I just want to break those down one more time for our listeners. You combined IQ, intelligence quotient with EQ, emotional intelligence or emotional quotient and CQ, the curiosity quotient.

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

And the cultural question, one more CQ. So, we have four of them in there.

Eddie Turner:

Ah! See, I missed one. Excellent. Now, that’s the interesting combination. I like that.

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

Yeah, it was not enough just to look at just culture or not enough just to look at emotional intelligence. The IQ can combine the critical thinking and a lot of those elements. And we really looked at how we have this process. And if you don’t recognize the factors that impact that process, you have a very tough time having empathy which, of course, is a big part of emotional intelligence. So, it seems like simple to think that if you just open up your mind to see other people’s vantage points but we’ve never seen a time that people had a harder time doing it than right now if you look at the political climates and things that are going on. So, it’s really very timely that we came up with this research.

Eddie Turner:

It does appear that way indeed. I mean, when we think about where we’re at in our world today, at every level of society, there is a recognition that we need more people to understand, as you articulate in the book, themselves as well as others.

So, Maya, what did you find is the best way for leaders to recognize their own lack of or need to develop their perceptive powers?

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

Well, absolutely, when it comes to the business professionals, and we wrote this book with the business professionals in mind, however, some of the book’s concepts are applicable across different industries and also in everyday life, we are currently in the ever-evolving highly diverse workplace. So, we have to recognize the need to understand the complexities that can revolve around perception. For example, an interesting statistic we found out is according to Psychology Today, we make about 35,000 decisions a day.

Eddie Turner:

That many?

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

That many. I’m reflecting on all the decisions I’ve made since I woke up this morning and it didn’t appear to me that it’s been that many. However, we do. So, why does perceptions matter? Well, many of our decisions are small and insignificant while some have major impact on our professional careers, major impact in a professional and corporate setting. So, we’re dealing with some perception mechanism. Some of them are conscious. Some of them are subconscious. And in some situations, you can trace your decision making, your perception back to a particular experience in life or to your parents or to your upbringing. For example, I always knew I wanted to be a PhD, I wanted to be a doctor in something because my father was a PhD and I felt like he inspired me to strive for the excellence in the academic arena. So, I can pinpoint where that perception came from, where that decision came from but there are so many where we’re hard pressed to figure out where those came from. And some of our research is to recognize that perception impacts everyone’s reality. What are those mechanisms, what are those variables impacting our perception and how those correlate with effective leadership because the effective leaders are the ones that are able to tap into a potential of their own perception and back to your point, Eddie, understand others?

Eddie Turner:

I’m still stuck on 35,000 decisions a day. I’m sorry, I’m just thinking about how many I’ve gotten wrong so far. Did your research produce the algorithm?

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

Well, I think I made a very poor decision when it comes to my choice of high-calorie lunch. That’s the one that I can definitely pinpoint as the wrong one but a lot of decisions are just something that we’re doing subconsciously – “Do I wake up at this time? Do I wake up at the other time? Do I take this medicine?” – but we’re focusing, of course, not on all those decision-making. We’re focusing on the ones that are impacting your effectiveness in the world of business.

Eddie Turner:

And does indecision count in that 35,000?

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

Yes, I would imagine. So, we have a lot of those. Not making a decision is a decision, right?

Eddie Turner:

Yes, that’s why I ask.

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

Absolutely.

Eddie Turner:

All right. So, then we think about decisions we’re making as individuals, how does the role of our perception of others play into this. And I think that’s partially what Dr. Diane was referring to.

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

Well, it’s really interesting to look at how certain things influence perception and perception influences certain things. When we talk about what plays into any of this, well, think about what influences perception. You’ve got culture, you’ve got experience, you’ve got curiosity, intelligence, gender, spirituality, emotions, you name it. Those things influence your perception but then you got to look at how perception influences innovation, critical thinking, engagement, creativity, collaboration, thinking, leadership. And you go through these lists of if we can recognize this impact that perception has and tie it into we all want to be quantitative in this group, we want to figure out how it’s going to save you, so money and organizations are saying “Well, why is this helpful?” Well, if we’re improving emotional intelligence because we’re improving our empathy to be able to see some things from other people’s perspectives and understanding their vantage point, I mean, we know we’re losing tens of billions to hundreds of billions a year on emotional intelligence depending on where you get your data and that’s same with leadership and collaboration the numbers are kind of similar and engagement as well, our perception of our jobs and whether we like what we do or we don’t like what we do at work, if we have that improved engagement, we know that over 500 billion is lost each year because of that. So, I think that a lot of leaders want to see data and statistics but they don’t really recognize that there’s so much to perception. And as we talked about the cultural aspect, we’ve seen some companies that have been great about doing some cultural training and that’s just, as we said, one of the two CQs. I mean we have IBM, they’ve done a lot of training to ensure that employees are have learned about culture before they send them overseas, for example. And the Coca-Cola does the same but they make sure the spouse is even trained because they say happy wife, happy husband, happy life or whatever, you look at that either way but there are so many companies from Accenture, McKinsey, the data out there shows that the more perceptive the organization, the more successful they’ll be. And HBR had 40 case studies that showed that clients that had this sense of understanding of people with whom they interact are 152% likelier that they would understand the client. And if you can understand your client, then your sales go up. I mean, there’s a lot of data out there but really, it’s kind of intuitive to think that if you can put yourself in somebody else’s shoes and see things from their perspective that you’re going to be much more open and much more successful.

Eddie Turner:

And if a leader wants to improve in this area, what’s the secret?

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

Well, the thing is one has to be in tune with his or her own perception, one has to evaluate one’s own perception, being aware of how you perceive as a leader, listen to others and observe and to a certain degree being able to predict as to what the others may perceive and that is part of the index that we developed. It is part of our book and part of our training program. It’s to evaluate and predict and then also going further what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to interpret. What are we interpreting? What all of that means? A lot of times, leaders think they project one thing and they end up projecting something completely different.

Eddie Turner:

Exactly. That’s one of the reasons why I was curious and I’m so happy you said you have the index so that it’s not left up to themselves and their own self-deception.

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

That is true. And recently, I actually worked on an article where I was sharing the one experience I had in the Finance industry where one of the middle level managers was addressed by his superiors and basically they told him that every single member on his team was unhappy with his leadership and his comeback was “I’m an excellent leader.” So, his perception of himself and the perception of everyone else was completely different. Well, usually, we don’t have this Grand Canyon of difference between one’s perception versus the perception of others. usually, this is far better aligned but at the same point of time, if I go into a meeting and I’m supposed to communicate something to my team, I know exactly what I’m trying to project and I’m hoping to know my team in order to be able to know how they’re going to perceive my projection. With that said, we are trying to help the leaders polish their own perception, being in tune with the perception of others and being able to come to that ever fluid concept of a business reality. And the reason why I said ever fluid is one person’s reality may not be what the other person sees. However, there is such a thing as close to possible to the business reality that we’re living within and working within and that is the one within which our leadership is able to become more effective.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. Well, I am enjoying this conversation with you, Diane and Maya, and we’ll have more with you amazing professors, scholars, leaders, and speakers right after this break.

This is Karen Jacobsen, the GPS Girl, and you have reached your destination because you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

Okay, we’re back, everyone. I am talking to Diane Hamilton and Maya Zelihic, two amazing scholars, professors, and authors of The Power of Perception: Eliminating Boundaries to Create Successful Global Leaders.

Before the break, we talked about what perception is, ladies, and how leaders can improve their own and how they interact with other people but you said that you don’t leave it up to leaders to say that they’re good at themselves. You just created an index. Diane, can you tell us a little bit more about the index you created.

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

You brought up a really important point about how you cannot just rely on what you think you’re doing well as leaders. Sometimes you have to measure certain things and quantify certain things, right? I had Francesca Gino on my show a while back, who’s a very impressive professor from Harvard, and we talked about how leaders think that they embrace curiosity but if you ask the people who work for them, the percentage is far less of whether they believe that the curiosity that they would like to see is actually something that they reward, the employees didn’t agree with the leaders. So, our perception of what we want to have happened or what we think is the reality is not always the case. So, when we train companies, we give them the Perception Power Index and that is where we discuss the four factors of Evaluation, Prediction, Interpretation, and Correlation. So, it’s kind of like you’ve taken a disk for those types of assessments where it’s not that long, 10, 15 minutes and you get this big 26-page report of all your results but what we’re looking at is under evaluation we’re looking at self-control, composure, acceptance, body language, tone. We’re looking at some of these things about our self-evaluation because that determines our actions. And then they’re looking at prediction next which, of course, covers things like our empathy, sensitivity, translation, how we look at alternatives. There’s all these different subfactors within each of these four major factors. And just as if you take an emotional intelligence test, you would get your results of how high you are or how low you are in each of these areas. In interpretation, we’re looking at curiosity, logic, cultures, those things and correlation, we’re also bringing it all together with vantage point experience and other factors of how we reach our conclusions. So, if you go down this list, we go through “Well, how are these impacting you? What are your differences in perception?” We saw that there’s a difference a little bit between men and women, which I thought was kind of interesting because women were more likely to believe that others can allow their perceptions of their gender impact them where men didn’t see that as a big factor. Well, maybe they didn’t have the same life experiences. So, there we’re seeing culture and different things play into our life experiences. Men were more likely to believe that a person’s health can impact their decision-making abilities. They did not view race and age as much of an issue in decision making though as women did. So, there’s a lot of differences but there weren’t huge differences. We saw on and off just smaller variations but what’s interesting is when we get these results, we take a look at kind of a personal SWOT analysis that we do with these groups, we go through this and we go “Okay, now you know the factors and you’ve assessed how they impact your perception. So, let’s do your personal SWOT. What are going to be your weaknesses and strengths when you’re creating these smart goals to overcome some of these limitations you have going through this process?” And it’s not just a personal area of improvement that we work on. We go through all the personal issues and help people create their own personal smart goals but then now that they’ve understand how perception impacts everything, they take what they’ve learned and they help their organization leaders create a corporate smart goal process to bring back to leadership. And who [inaudible] training the courses could be HR professionals, could be somebody Maya and I could be training or other people in HR. Consultants and anybody who’s certified to give this will have this great report that they bring back to leaders to give them and say “This is what your employees think would help them to improve their perceptions to be more well-rounded in these four areas that we’ve identified.” And so, it’s kind of like what you would do if you had an engagement survey. You incorporate that into their development goals. And it’s something that employees get really excited to help give feedback to the company because we know when you get feedback from the horse’s mouth, so to speak, that’s when you really get some success in the end.

Eddie Turner:

Where can individuals get a copy of the Perceptive Power Index?

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

I think it’s PerceptionPowerIndex.com. it’s also on Dr. Diane’s website Dr. DianeHamilton.com but PerceptionPowerIndex.com will take them directly to the index.

Eddie Turner:

PerceptionPowerIndex.com. So, we’re going to put a link to that on your page for this episode so folks can go there and take that.

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

Absolutely. And if any of the HR managers, consultants, corporate training professionals, if they’re interested in learning more, they can get in touch with us and we will actually help them get certified in order to be able to provide this training to their companies because one of the things that we talked about prior to our break was what is the core purpose of all this. Well, the core purpose is to ensure that we’re polishing our perception, being aware of the perception of others because without having that skill set, you are unable to be an effective leader in a corporate setting. And we were also focusing not only on the concept of leadership in general. We are focusing on concept of global leadership because I think we all can agree that if you’re a leader in today’s environment, you have to be prepared to be a global leader. So, one of the concepts that we discuss in our book is ‘Suspend Your Beliefs’ and that is not to give up your values. It is just to be open-minded to embrace the values of others, observe the values of others, perceive the values of others and understand others in other cultures in order to be able to do effective business internationally. And as I did a lot of research ventures in different parts of the world, different lectures and interacted with different business leaders across different cultures, one of the things that was one of the biggest values that I’ve seen for the effective leaders was that ability to be not only open-minded but to suspend their own beliefs, not giving up on their beliefs but just suspend them, observe, learn from others and that is where that prediction part of the EPIC index comes in place – “I’m aware of who I am as a perceptive individual but now I’m actually trying to predict what the others perceive about me and about the situation that we’re in.”

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. So, you’re giving people an opportunity to get certified in this, not just be a person who takes this. They can get certified and issue this as a credentialed assessor.

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

Absolutely, absolutely. And as a matter of fact, Diane and I were happy to do some of the training, some of the certifications but it’s just the two of us with all the other obligations that we have. So, we’re happy to certify the HR managers, consultants, corporate training managers and that way they can administer that within their companies. We do believe that this will increase employee motivation, employee productivity and effectiveness because how many times all three of us were in a meeting on the receiving end of a particular message and we walk away from that meeting with three different perceptions. And Diane and I, we were in those types of situations ourselves. And understanding who we are as individuals and how that impacts our perception. Everyday life you have an argument with your significant other. Her impression of what you’ve said versus what you said, Eddie, are two different things. You were both in the same kitchen.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, I am always wrong no matter what I think.

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

And also, one of the stories that we share in the book that I actually found quite fascinating, one of the things that Diane was talking about, the gender differences, we have a story about a gentleman and a lady looking at a painting. And the lady is saying “Look at the colors, look at the way the sun hits this barn, look at the old man in front of the barn and how happy he is.” And the man is looking at the painting saying “Boy oh boy, that barn needs some repainting.” That is oversimplifying and it can be other way around but a lot of times, we are in a situation where the same thing happened, we were in the midst of that same event in a corporate setting, we walk away, two completely different perceptions.

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

I’d like to add to Maya’s story. My husband, I asked him his perception of what he thought of my hair when I cut it one time and he said “If you like it, I like it.”

Eddie Turner:

Smart man.

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

It’s interesting to look at what we can train people to overcome in terms of their process. And I wanted to add to what Maya was saying about we can train people but they also get five hours of [inaudible] certification credit which is really nice if they go through the certification training program. So, it is available for sure.

Eddie Turner:

That’s good to know because for a lot of people, that really does matter and make a difference. I like the idea that you all have put together a body of research, published a book that shows that perception is a leadership quality. And because of the rigor behind it, this combining which I absolutely love, you don’t know this but before recording this episode, I was working with a very senior leader in an organization and I was talking about culture. And I’ve covered this in a couple of different episodes but you’ve put this together as a nice formula – IQ + EQ + CQ – and I missed that, you have the second CQ where cultural competency. We are no longer and perhaps COVID has increased this need but we are no longer dealing with our local communities, our local states and our local country. We are truly a global society. And so, we must be culturally competent as leaders.

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

What was interesting about culture to me was you couldn’t just have like one factor be IQ, one factor be EQ one be CQ and another CQ. They all overlap to some extent. It all interacts with the other things. So, that’s why we came up with this EPIC acronym because it is more of a process. And all those things weave throughout the process. So, it’s really important to recognize the whole process that we go through so that if we are weak in part of the process, we can correct those areas.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. Well, thank you for taking time to talk to us today about the power of perception. Is there any closing comment that you would like to make for our listeners?

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

Well, I would like to say that the core purpose of this book and the training and the certification is not to have everyone think the same, just the opposite, but for everyone to be able to effectively lead in a very diverse, very multi-layered business setting where every single person is aware of what they are projecting, aware of how they perceive things and aware of the other’s perception and then aligning everyone as close as possible to that concept of business reality because within that particular ever-fluid concept, that’s where we produce, that’s where we excel and that’s where we perform. So, that is our core purpose.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent.

Diane?

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

I don’t know if I can top that. That was exactly what I’d like to end with but there is no truth, there’s only perception and you have to recognize that what you see may not be what other people see or what they interpret. So, it’s really important that we look at the world and realize that we’re more alike than we are different but if we can work on our differences in our perceptions of how we go through our decision-making process, the better and more successful we’ll be in the business world.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. So, we’re going to put a copy of the book on our website so the folks can visit you at KeepLeadingPodcast.com, visit your episode and have an access to the assessment and access to your book. We’re going to put links to your profiles so people can follow you both. And I neglected to say that Dr. Diane Hamilton has one of the best podcasts out there. So, when you’re not listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, listen to Take The Lead which is in how many episodes now, Diane?

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

I lost count after 1100 people. It’s a lot.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, some outstanding numbers. So, just to put things in the context, after two years, I’ve crossed the 100 episodes.

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

Oh, you have? Congratulations.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you. So, I want my listeners to understand how hard it is to get to 1100 and counting. So, truly phenomenal work. I don’t think there’s anybody left that Diane Hamilton hasn’t interviewed.

Dr. Diane Hamilton:

Well, there’s got to be but they’ve all been wonderful including you, Eddie. Thank you for being a guest on my show.

Eddie Turner:

And Maya, it’s a pleasure to have you with us as well. I’ve had a chance to do some work with you very closely and just a joy to be with you two ladies. Thank you for being a guest on the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Dr. Maya Zelihic:

Thank you, Eddie.

Eddie Turner:

That’s it for this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 106 | The Power of Perception | Diane Hamilton and Maja Zelihic appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 105 | Playing Offense as a Leader | Paul Epstein

admin — Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:05:26 +0000

Paul Epstein
Former NFL and NBA Executive, bestselling author of “The Power of Playing Offense”, and Founder of Purpose Labs
Playing Offense as a Leader

Episode Summary
I had a fascinating conversation about “The Power of Playing Offense” with Paul Epstein, a former NFL, and NBA executive. Listen to this episode to understand how lessons from the world of professional sports apply equally to the front office and other aspects of organizations and business.

Detailed Episode Summary
https://c-suitenetwork.com/advisors/the-power-of-playing-offense/

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Paul Epstein is an expert in leadership and organizational culture with nearly fifteen years of experience as a professional sports executive for multiple NFL and NBA teams, a global sports agency, and the NFL league office—leading and coaching business teams, most recently with the San Francisco 49ers. It was there that Paul had a life-changing transformation—he found his ‘Why’—to inspire purpose in others so they can play offense in life. A calling he has followed ever since.

As Founder of Purpose Labs, Paul is on a mission to impact millions of lives by sharing his message of Playing Offense as an author, keynote speaker, business coach, and leadership trainer. He has installed the Playing Offense playbook with professional sports organizations, Fortune 500 leadership teams, Chief People Officers, MBAs, and professional athletes—all to live and lead with greater purpose, performance, and impact.

Paul received his MBA from the University of Michigan, following his undergraduate degree at USC. He resides in Pasadena, CA, with his wife, two Labradoodles, and their future leader, PJ.

Website
https://purposelabs.us/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulepsteinspeaks/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/PaulEpsteinLA

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/PaulEpsteinSpeaks/

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/paulepsteinspeaks/

Get Your Copy of Paul’s Book!
https://www.amazon.com/Power-Playing-Offense-Playbook-Transformation/dp/1645436241/

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Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information
www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com

Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive and leadership coaching, facilitation, and professional speaking.Unlike most of the men in my family, I don’t have an athletic bone in my body. However, as an executive coach, I find myself using athletic terms and examples often in working with my clients. Today, I would like to do the same with you, my audience. I want to talk about how we can play offense as leaders. To do that, I’ve invited the author of the forthcoming book The Power of Playing Offense – A Leader’s Playbook for Personal and Team Transformation by Paul Epstein. And this book is available for pre-order on Amazon.com.

Paul Epstein is an expert in leadership and organizational culture. He spent 15 years in professional sports as an executive working for multiple NFL and NBA teams. This is where he found his why, to inspire purpose in others so they can play offense in life.

Paul, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Paul Epstein:

Appreciate you having me on, Eddie. Fired up.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Paul, tell us more about your professional background.

Paul Epstein:

Absolutely. So, you mentioned a piece of it and I look at it as I wouldn’t be where I am today without each and every step of the journey. So, coming out of school, I didn’t even know it was possible to work in a space that I call my dream industry. And so, I was a total kid in a candy store. I spent 15 years, when all was said and done, inside of professional sports, NFL league office, 49ers most recently and it was always in formal leadership roles. So, I was leading billion-dollar campaigns, national campaigns around the Super Bowl opening up different venues throughout different sports. And so, it was a total dream come true but I’ll tell you, Eddie, there was a moment and an experience that I had when I was in a leadership role at the San Francisco 49ers that changed my life forever. I could tell you specifically even the day it happened. Back on August 2, 2016, we all go off site and we found our why. Until that point, I was navigating without purpose. And I’ll tell you what, I went back into the office and folks were like “What did you drink at that offsite, what Kool-Aid, what punch because you are just oozing with some sense of energy that we’ve never seen you with, Paul? What’s going on?” And I couldn’t fully articulate it at the time but once I started to understand my personal mission and my North Star and now, I had concrete values. You see, I think all these values and purpose, it’s already inside of us but until we put it on paper and until we go through intentional exercises to find it, then how can we ever act on it. And even if accidentally we do, how can we be consistent about it? And so, what I started to do is I took my purpose, I took my why, I took my values and I started to use them as a framework and a lens for how I showed up every day, meaning my decisions, my behaviors, my actions. And one of those decisions, and for those familiar with the movie Jerry Maguire, it is a little bit of an oldie but a goodie, and I had a Jerry Maguire moment, Eddie. I had a Jerry Maguire moment where I took a leap of faith, I stopped being inspired by the day job and I started getting in a healthy way obsessed with my passion project which was to pay the gift of purpose forward. So, what that meant was I was taking my entire team off site helping them find their why. That created some water cooler buzz and then it spread throughout the 49ers organization to the point where some folks started to call me “The Why Coach.” And so, I’m coaching other people to find their why and that passion project turned into that obsession. And so, I spent the following two years of my life after this leap of faith in a leadership consultancy helping individuals, teams and organizations do just that – find your why, use purpose as the foundation for who you are from a character and a leadership perspective and then that propels you to then pay it forward for your team and your culture. And so, I was all in on people, all in on leadership, all in on culture. And that takes me to about the end of 2019 and then, for all the folks listening to this, we all know what 2020 was about. Depending where we are in the world, it was a year of a bit of a roller coaster, if you will. It had a lot of adversity. And needless to say, at the start of 2020, I founded my own company Purpose Labs and it was one of the biggest and most radical years I could have ever imagined because while there were certain trade-offs in the adversity, the impact was even greater than I could have ever imagined. And I’m not saying this to sound like a billboard. What I’m saying is because I had my purpose intact and I never swayed off of it, that’s what got me through the adversity. Purpose became the fuel for me to step into each day with more courage and more grit and more resilience, all at the core of leadership and I walked away writing a book, about to launch the podcast. I have so much scalable impact now through all of these online courses and that never would have happened had I not a) years ago found my why, b) the pandemic while keeping me home physically, it inspired me to ask myself how do I want to live and lead with purpose going forward. And so, that’s why we are here today, Eddie.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you, Paul. Well, you’ve given us a lot to consider there. So, I just want to step back for a moment. You said you went from attaining your dream job to then later on identifying your why. So, I want to know a little bit more about that. So, I want to just dig into a couple of things. Number one, folks listening to you, it’s not easy to get a job in the professional sports leagues at all. You not only attained success in the NFL but also the NBA. How did you attain your dream job, number one? And then number two, tell us about the success you achieved.

Paul Epstein:

Sure. So, my first break in, and I’ll give very specific context here because I think it all matters, so back when I was a really young buck just getting out of undergrad, so I’m in my early 20s, I was fortunate enough to be working for a Fortune 10 company while I was in school partly as an intern and then I leveraged that into a full-time opportunity my first year out of college. Now, what happened from there was that, and I’ll share this too because it’s important, I was doing quite well for myself both from a career track, from a brand track and even from a financial track to come out of college and have the opportunity to make six figures, I realized how blessed and fortunate I was. And so, then, I’m literally out managing my sales territory, which was my job at the time, and ESPN Radio comes on and it was Mel Kiper, NFL draft guru and literally, Eddie, I remember the words like it was yesterday. He said on this commercial during a radio break “Have you ever wanted to work for your favorite NFL, NBA, MLB?” and I just started accelerating and screaming “Yes! Yes! Yes.” And the call to action here was “Call 1877 SMWW now.” SMWW stands for Sports Management Worldwide, which I made the phone call. It turned out to be an eight-week online course and their promise was “If you’re one of the top students and you turn some heads in a good way, we’ll introduce you to our network.” And so, that program is what led me to an entry-level role selling tickets for the Los Angeles Clippers. Now, remember, I’m in a borderline six-figure job. Let me tell you about the new job. It was a four-hour part-time shift that you had to earn your way up to an eight-hour shift. Most folks, specifically 90%, don’t even make it to the second month because of the lack of pay. It was 7 dollars an hour, 3% commission, no chance for growth unless you are literally the top of a 20-person class. And I not only pulled the trigger and took that plunge. I’ve never looked back, Eddie.

Eddie Turner:

Though it was low pay but the Clippers weren’t the Clippers they are today.

Paul Epstein:

No, no, my friend, no. Even if you’re not a sports fan, let me paint a picture. There are 82 games in a season. When I worked for, them they won 19. That’s really bad.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah. So, I want to make sure we give context. I don’t know what years they were but I know it wasn’t over the last couple.

Paul Epstein:

No, it was tough. So, outside, everybody including my family thinking it was a crazy move because, again, I left stability and security and comfort but that taught me something and I could even connect it back to my current state which is, remember I was saying, my core values are the lens for how I make decisions. Well, lo and behold, years later, one of my core values is courage. And that decision to me resembles what at the time felt like a blind leap but now I see that it’s been a part of my story and my character ever since day one. So, that is how I broke in.

Eddie Turner:

Let me just isolate that for a minute, if I can, Paul, because this is something I talk about with leaders all the time. Sometimes we get comfortable. And when we get comfortable, we become more risk averse and, in some cases, we even stop dreaming about what future potential we can still achieve. So, I love the fact that you took a chance. And, obviously, you put some calculation behind that and it paid off.

Paul Epstein:

Yeah, it did pay off but I’ll say this. For me, I’ve got the shiny story to tell but I earned it, brother. When I say this, I started in a group of about 20 folks. Only two of us saw the second month of the job. I was the only one to get promoted from that four-hour shift to the eight-hour shift. And I share this with you with zero ego, full humility. I share it with you because at the baseline of a career, performance is the name of the game. And so, if it was not for me being able to express the performance through my strengths and my gifts and my talents which naturally sales suited me well at that time, I had to earn each and every step. And so, after I grinded my way through those earliest chapters where I’ll bring the conversation, to answer the second part of your question which is how did I grow my career, once I established that track record of early performance, how did I grow. And it was a really specific moment where I realized that there was a secret sauce of business. And it was two years after the moment that I just shared with you, after a couple of internal promotions, I finally get the call to manage the team that I once started in. So, all of a sudden, I go from individual contributor into formal leadership. No playbook to learn from. I wish I had a book like the one I just wrote at the time because my book is all about the people side of business and that’s where I’m going with this. I inherited a team of about 11 folks and it was a very talented team. Six months in, I look at the scoreboard, meaning our sales performance, and we were well below expectation. And so, one of my guys, his name is Eddie, he and I go out to lunch. He was older than me. Even though he technically reported in to me, I looked up to him whether he knows it or not and I’ve since shared this story a lot with him. And Eddie and I go off to lunch and I’d say “Eddie, dude, what’s going on? The team, we’re just not stepping up?” And after a bit of a back and forth, he said “What are we doing right now?” I said “Well, we’re having lunch.” And he goes “Exactly. We’re breaking bread. When’s the last time you ever did that with anybody else.” And I was like “Holy shoot, Eddie.” It floored me because he went there and I’m so happy he challenged me. Basically, if I cut through all the noise, he said “You don’t have a relationship with anybody on the team except for me. And you know what, Eddie, he was right. He was 100% right. And so, when I had that aha moment, and I’ll share this last point and then please hop back in, I had this role of inside sales manager for the LA Clippers for two years. Same product on the court. It’s not like they got good in wins and losses the following year. It was the same product we were selling. Out of 30 NBA teams that first year where this lunch happened right in the middle of that first year, we finished 28th in revenue. Pretty bad. The next year we finished second, number two out of 30, because I started to put people first. And yes, that sounds like a bumper sticker. I actually did it with actions and behaviors and I was super intentional about putting culture and people and being selfless and being a servant leader. I learned how to do it on the fly. It took me the better part of my first year after a lot of mistakes but I figured it out and that’s the moment where my career started to take off from one leadership role to the next.

Eddie Turner:

Paul, that’s a powerful story. When you talk about still selling a losing product, still selling a product that hasn’t changed but you’re selling more of it, it sounds like you may also need to put out a new sales play book as well.

Paul Epstein:

Yeah. And what’s the core of sales? The same as the core leadership. People. I think sometimes we out think ourselves in tactics and strategies. If you put people first and you do it from a place of care, brother, I think sky is the absolute limit.

Eddie Turner:

And you had that success in the NBA, the National Basketball Association, for those who may not recognize the acronym because we have audiences all over the world here downloading this podcast. And then the National Football League, the NFL. And for other parts of the world, when they say football, they mean soccer, what we call soccer here, but where we throw the pigskin. Tell us about your success there.

Paul Epstein:

Yeah. Well, in a similar theme, I’ll share this, so after the Clippers, I started to hop all around the country, always in elevated roles of leadership. So, I went from LA to New Orleans to Sacramento, then to New York. And New York is where I eventually, after a couple years there, found my way in the NFL league office. So, I shared that quick anecdote with you because technically, out of those four to five promotions that I just bounced around the country for, I only had to interview once. The interview was to go from LA to New Orleans. I had no favors called in. Strictly it was performance based. I had an out interview, if you will, a handful of amazing candidates that were beyond qualified, I could argue more qualified than me at the time but I got that break. And then from New Orleans to Sacramento, Sacramento to New York and then several promotions within New York, I never interviewed. And it goes back to relationships that I built early in my climb, early in my days of growth. I just started to treat people well. I didn’t put on a mask when it came to leadership. I didn’t put on a mask when it came to who I was at work. I was just Paul. And the more that I invested myself in helping others get what they wanted, then lo and behold, they started to open up doors for me as I was escalating. So, I just wanted to provide that context because sometimes you may call it luck but I call it something of being very … And some people say relationships are strategic. Then, to me, that lacks a little bit of authenticity. I didn’t do it strategically. I did it because of that early learning lesson that Eddie taught me and it paid it forward years and years later. So, then NFL was interesting. I go NFL league office, then my last stop. I spent over four years heading up sales at the San Francisco 49ers. Now, as much as I love to tell you that it was solely an amazing ride, I’d rather talk about the other side because on the surface, we opened up Levi Stadium, we achieved a 1.3-billion-dollar goal. And that was not easy but I went through my own roller coaster where if I could look at leadership from the time I was at the Clippers until the time I was at the Niners. Using a sports term, let’s say I had four quarters of a leadership journey. I loved who Paul was in the first and I loved who he was in the fourth. What happened in between was I started to chase success. I became obsessed with the numbers and the results and the goals and the KPIs and sometimes I didn’t always put people first. Now, remember, I built relationships above me which ended up helping me get these other jobs. I’m talking about the folks that if we were to put a hierarchy out there, I lost touch with my team again. So, I fell back down and it was a performance review while I was at the Niners that taught me this lesson, Eddie. Everything’s good. We’re surpassing goal. we’re exceeding expectations. I’m about to leave the team president’s office but something inside of me wasn’t right. I knew that things were imperfect even though he said that we were all good. So, I turned around and I said “Can you just give me one thing, one thing to get better at?” and he said “Absolutely, buddy. Have a seat.” So, in my mind, I’m thinking “Where the heck was this five or ten minutes ago?” Regardless, at least he was willing to go there. And he said “I’m going to tell you a quote from Roosevelt. And this is exactly where I think you need to improve.” He said “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.”

Eddie Turner:

That’s one of my favorite quotes of all time.

Paul Epstein:

Basically, Eddie, and I love that it’s one of your favorite quotes, he told me the same thing that Eddie told me years before. And I just shared this because this is an NFL team president now talking to me. And I felt like I hit rock bottom because on the surface, and if you look at my LinkedIn profile, things look perfect but they were far from perfect. And the thing that I care most about is people but I sold out at some point, I sold out to hit goals and hit success. And at that moment, I said “I’m going to rededicate myself permanently,” emphasis on the word ‘permanently’, “to the Paul back at the Clippers once he figured it out there is no longer an organizational goal or a promotion that will ever become more important than the people that I work with and for in all three directions, above me, below me, to the side of me.” And that was that massive learning lesson and from there, Eddie, that’s what inspired me to pay it forward and create impact beyond the sports industry because I felt like I just figured out this massive gift and I also felt like in a humble way my story had enough success built in that I knew I would have credibility sharing this message because you look at my performance and you say “I’m going to listen to that guy” but I don’t come with a message of “Hit goals at all costs and when at all costs.” I come with a message of “The score will take care of itself if you put your people first.”

Eddie Turner:

I love that. Thank you for sharing that, Paul. And organizations say “Here our number one asset is our people” but when times get going a little difficult, it’s the first thing they get rid of. So, I love how you’re sharing that what you learned, what you experienced, what catapulted you to meteoric success was how you took care of people and you got away from that and you were still having success but you realized the importance of going back to that. And the other reason I love that is because this is the Keep Leading!® Podcast and this is one reason I call it Keep Leading!® leading because you were leading but if we’re not careful, we can kind of fall back on to other habits that we might have once had. So, we can’t stay complacent. We must continuously lead and do the things that got us success.

Paul Epstein:

Yeah. And, Eddie, can I just take two seconds here? I was chasing success but when I fell down, I had no significance. So, my argument is prioritize significance over success.

Eddie Turner:

Prioritize significance over success. Well said, Paul.Well, I’m enjoying talking about playing offense as a leader with former NBA and NFL executive Paul Epstein. We’ll be right back with more right after this.

This is Dr. Diane Hamilton. I’m CEO and founder of Tonerra and you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

Okay, everyone. We’re back. I’m talking about playing offense as a leader and I’m doing that with a former NBA and NFL executive Paul Epstein. He is the author of Playing Offense: Leaders Playbook for Personal and Team Transformation.Before the break, Paul was telling us an amazing story about the journey of finding your why, your success in the NFL and the NBA. I have to ask the question. I see the cover of your book is an NFL field. You spent time as an executive in both leagues. Which one is your favorite?

Paul Epstein:

I’m a football guy, Eddie. Frankly, from day one, and it’s the hardest sport to break into, so it wasn’t an accident that it took me about eight years to break in.

Eddie Turner:

That’s a lot of truth to what you say. I’ve known a couple of folks who did eventually get in and they all say what you just said. It is a hard league to get into.

Paul Epstein:

Yes. Nobody leaves. So, there ain’t an open seat. So, once you get there, you got to protect it and hold on and kick some butt in whatever it is you do but that holds your standards to a higher level.

Eddie Turner:

I’m sure. So, you discovered your why and now you’ve written an amazing book. Tell us about the book.

Paul Epstein:

Yeah. So, the book is essentially me sharing a lot of leadership insights that I experienced both from my 15-year run in the professional sports industry and also in the consulting and the coaching work that I’ve done ever since because I thought it was important to test a lot of these principles that I learned in sports but could it apply if you were, as an example, I’ve coached and consulted with navy seals, I’ve coached and consulted with Amazon’s leadership team, with Zoom’s leadership team, and I really wanted to make sure that the leadership principles were universally applicable. And I came out with a resounding yes and I came out with a consistent theme and mantra and I got to study the best of the best that I respected and admired the most in the leadership space. And if I could boil the thesis of the book down to one sentence, it would be “Before you lead others, you must first lead yourself.” And that is the awareness and perspective needed to play offense. On the surface, when I say playing offense, it’s taking a purpose-driven mentality into each day, it’s putting purpose at the forefront of your business model as well as your life because when you believe in each step of the journey, then when the adversity inevitably hits, you’re going to have more enduring qualities. And that’s really why I separated the book into five pillars. The first two are about leading self. The next two are about leading others. And then the fifth is about leading the future. So, the core theme of the first pillar is purpose and my inspiration there was how can you take a world that’s largely paycheck driven and transform them to be purpose driven. The second pillar, the core themes are about grit and resilience. So, my vision there was especially at a time like now where adversity is inevitable, how can you flip that on its head and take adversity into achievement. The third pillar is all about inclusion and helping others unleash their superpowers which I define as your strengths, your gifts, your talents, your passions. The challenge is if they don’t feel they have a seat at the table, that’s where the inclusion comes in, then they’re never going to step forward and unleash their superpowers and realize their full potential. So, that’s the third pillar. The fourth pillar is all about creating a culture that becomes your competitive advantage, which goes back to the people first message. So, gone are the days of commanding control. In are the days of camaraderie and connection. And then the fifth pillar, and imagine we’re just marching down the field, so now we’re in the red zone, we’ve made it through 80 yards and we’re in those final 20, I call this one “Leave it better than you found it” which is what transforms us from what we mentioned earlier, success to significance, from a life of self to a life of legacy. And if I was to say what is in the end zone waiting for you when you take that journey of playing offense where you feel alive at every single step, what’s waiting for you is the trophy of impact, meaning you made a difference of fulfillment because that is the ultimate prize and of legacy because my vision is why is that something we don’t think about until our elder years. What if you could start taking intentional actions tomorrow to build a legacy for how you’re eventually going to be remembered? And it’s got to go beyond the trophy case. So, that, in a nutshell, is the power of playing offense.

Eddie Turner:

Very nice. I like that. Thank you for sharing that nice summary of the book for us and I know that listeners to the Keep Leading!® Podcast will enjoy reading that. Well, I have to ask you a couple of really important questions that I know that people are eager to get the answer to. Who’s going to win Super Bowl?

Paul Epstein:

Oh, as much as I love to tell you my Niners, I don’t think this is the year. The injury bug got us. You know what, I’m thinking Aaron Rodgers might get his second one this year. Green Bay seems to be humming.

Eddie Turner:

Boy, talk about a dark horse pick.

Paul Epstein:

Yeah.

Eddie Turner:

Okay.

Paul Epstein:

All right.

Eddie Turner:

All right.

Paul Epstein:

Depending on when you listen to it, if it’s after February of 2020, let’s see if I’ve got the crystal ball.

Eddie Turner:

Okay, NBA season starting up here after an abbreviated season pulled off. Talk about leadership, making the calls. So many organizations are having to make a tough call about do we continue business as usual. And if we do, how do we do it safely? The NBA successfully pulled off a season where very few players contracted the virus because of that bubble environment that they built. And with the Lakers getting the championship, will they repeat?

Paul Epstein:

I’m going to say no but I think they’re going to take a year off and then they’re going to get back there because I do think the mental part of it’s going to be a little taxing this year. I’m going to go back to who was the hottest team going into the bubble and now that they have a chance to build momentum, I’m going to say the Milwaukee Bucks. So, note I didn’t purposely do this but I just said two Wisconsin teams and I swear to you I have no connection to Wisconsin, I have no skin in the game but that’s just my gut feeling right now.

Eddie Turner:

Oh wow! Well, my Wisconsin listeners are no doubt are excited hearing this these predictions from you, Paul. I don’t know about the rest of the country but yes, we will see exactly how this unfolds but thank you for sharing your predictions with us. I really appreciate it.

Paul Epstein:

And, by the way, Eddie, real quick, and I say this because I’m in LA, I could have easily said the Lakers are going to repeat but remember, earlier in the podcast you said that sometimes leaders and people in general get complacent, get comfortable and I think that is the challenge nowadays of the repeat and why it’s so difficult mentally. I think you see this all the time in life and in sport when you win the championship or whatever trophy you’re chasing after, there’s typically this inevitable letdown. You take your foot off the gas 5%, 10%, 20%, that hunger and that thirst you had to go get that first one. And that’s why I say I think the Lakers may take a year off because if they take 10% off the gas pedal but then I think they get back there because now they’re going to be a little ticked off that they took their foot off the gas. So, I’m just going based on the human dynamics that apply to business and sport all the same.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Well, you used a phrase that I found interesting and I would like to ask you this as we head to our wrap-up here. As we look beyond the trophy case, you’ve had a chance to work for some great teams, what leadership lesson that shows up on the field can we take away to help us keep leading?

Paul Epstein:

Well, it’s a great question. When I ask people in a team, group or organizational setting, and this applies in the sports industry I’ve done this as well as outside of it, I ask them to think of the greatest leader that they’ve ever had. So, right now, for everybody listening in, think of the greatest leader you’ve ever had, any walk of life. It can be personal. It can be professional. Cement that person in your mind right now. Then ask yourself why did you think of that person and specifically, what did that person do in order for you to think about them, by do meaning what actions or behaviors did they take on why you have such a positive feeling about them, they are the greatest leader you’ve ever been around. And Eddie, I asked this to people all over the globe whether in person or virtually and I’ll tell you there’s a usual suspect that finishes in the top five 90% of the time. And I’ve done this in every corner of both the country as well as the globe. I’ve asked this to a baby boomer and a millennial, public organization, private organization. I’ve asked it in for-profit environments, nonprofit environments. 90%, regardless of environment, and here’s the one characteristic and this is the one key to leadership and it’s not practiced anywhere near enough. Listening. We think that leadership is all about do, do, do talk, talk, talk when in reality, and this is part of what’s ailing a part of our world and maybe even our country right now, this goes from society to business, if we just sat back and empathetically listened, we would have a far better world, we would have a far better company and we would have a far better life.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. Thank you, Paul.Paul, tell my listeners where they can learn more about you and your work so they can stay connected with you.

Paul Epstein:

Of course. So, everything can be found online. ‘Paul Epstein Speaks’ is my handle on most social media. That’s also my thought leadership website. And if you want to check out the book, which I would totally be humbled and honored if you did, Eddie said it’s on Amazon. To learn more about it, PowerOfPlayingOffence.com. That’s where you can find all of the resources, see all of the folks that have been blessed enough to support the book and really my heart goes out because it’s very fitting for the current times. I think we all need to take a more playing offense mindset into each day because it’s going to benefit the lives and impact the lives of everybody around us.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. And I know that you have a new podcast launching.

Paul Epstein:

Absolutely. Playmakers Impact Unleashed. We’re following the same thought process where we, using some of Eddie’s words here which we collaborated on, we look beyond the trophy case because a lot of podcasts focus on the what. We really drill in on the who, the why, and the how. And there are tons of tangible practices where every single episode, you’ll be able to implement something on Monday morning both in your business and your life.

Eddie Turner:

Fantastic. So, we’re going to put all that in the show notes so folks can connect with you, purchase the book, listen to your show and learn how to execute the playbook and stay on offense as leaders. Thanks so much for being a fantastic guest, Paul.

Paul Epstein:

Thank you so much. It was truly my honor.

Eddie Turner:

That concludes this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. Leadership is not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 105 | Playing Offense as a Leader | Paul Epstein appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 104 | Make Someone’s Day as a Leader | Howard Prager

admin — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 14:37:25 +0000

Howard Prager
Executive Coach and President at Advance Learning Group
Make Someone’s Day as a Leader

Episode Summary
In this episode of the Keep Leading!® podcast Howard Prager shares his tips and stories on how making someone’s day helps you too!

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Executive coach, author, and consultant Howard Prager helps organizations create and strengthen their leaders through programs designed to develop, grow and retain bench strength through coaching, leadership development, and mentoring. A member of the Marshall Goldsmith 100 Coaches, Howard is certified in stakeholder-centered coaching and has won 8 professional awards for outstanding learning programs. From this experience, he discovered that making someone’s day makes a huge difference to the person being helped and the person doing the helping. Howard’s soon-to-be-published book helps introverts and extroverts learn what they can do to make someone’s day in person, online, at work, and home.

Howard has an MBA from the University of Michigan, Ross School of Business, and BA from Northwestern University. He has taught and served on staff at the University of Notre Dame Mendoza College of Business and Lake Forest Graduate School of Management.

Website
https://howardhprager.com

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hprager/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/chihow

Leadership Quote
Anything is possible

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Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information
www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com

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www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive and leadership coaching, facilitation, and professional speaking.When is the last time someone told you “You made my day”? When is the last time you made someone else’s day? My guest today says he has discovered that making someone’s day makes a huge difference both to the person being helped and the person doing the helping. His soon-to-be published book helps both introverts and extroverts learn what they need to do to make someone’s day in person, online, at work, and at home. In this podcast, my guest Howard Prager will explain why it’s important for us as leaders to make someone’s day.

Let me tell you a little bit about Howard Prager. Howard Prager is an executive coach, author and a consultant who helps organizations create and strengthen their leaders through programs designed to develop, grow, and retain the strength of their bench. And he’s also one of Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 coaches. Howard has won eight professional awards for outstanding learning programs. I’m excited to welcome my fellow Northwestern Wildcat Howard Prager to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Welcome, Howard.

Howard Prager:

THANK you, Eddie. I feel like I should have the marching band playing Go You Northwestern as you did that beautiful introduction. So, thank you.

Eddie Turner:

“Go cats!”, right?

Howard Prager:

Right, right.

Eddie Turner:

So, Howard, you and I have known each other for years initially through the talent development circle, our ATD world, and then now as colleagues in the MG100.

Howard Prager:

Yes, yes. Colleagues almost puts it in in a smaller light than it is but before and now it is we’ve been people who have been leaders in our field, in our organizations and continue to give back, grow, and develop others.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, it has truly been a joy to be able to be connected with you all these years and now to get to know you better as we’re doing work inside of the MG100 family.

Howard Prager:

Yes.

Eddie Turner:

So, now, I have to ask you what does it mean to make someone’s day because going through my mind is that famous Clint Eastwood scene. I won’t try to do the Dirty Hairy voice but he also says “Go ahead and make my day.”

Howard Prager:

Right, right. he said “Make my day.” So just to not confuse, this is to make someone’s day.

Eddie Turner:

Oh, somebody else’s day, okay.

Howard Prager:

Right, right.

Eddie Turner:

Then we start there.

Howard Prager:

Okay, excellent. Thank you. So, make someone’s day is all about the large and small ways you can inspire others and it’s at a time that they need it most. It helps them and you really be your best by being able to say, do or have the right things that they need so that they can feel successful, empowered, able to move on.Let me start with a couple of stories if you don’t mind, Eddie, and I’ve got several stories about this to help people learn the concept of making someone’s day.

Eddie Turner:

Sure.

Howard Prager:

It started for me when I was commuting downtown Chicago and I was at the train station early one morning waiting for the 6:30 a.m. commuter train. And someone came up to me with a petition and they said “Would you mind signing my petition?” And I said “What is this for?” And she said “We want to get our candidate on the ballot,” which you need to do in Illinois is they need to have certain number of people who live in the area sign a petition. So, I asked her who it was. I said “Great” and I went ahead and signed and gave it back to her without thinking much about it. She took it and she looked up at me and she said “Oh my gosh, you made my day.”

Eddie Turner:

How about that.

Howard Prager:

And from that time, the whole train ride down town I thought about that. I thought about what is it that I did. All I did was sign a petition. Now, as I thought back about it, I thought “Maybe I was the first one, maybe she asked others, maybe it’s the first time she was doing this. I’m not sure” but to think that that was so powerful an action that it made her day and there’s what I call the boomerang effect because when you make someone else’s day, it also makes your day because you get some endorphin and a high from that as well.So, make someone’s day, I realize, this is really a powerful technique. It’s not just a pay it forward or do a good deed or do a good turn. It’s doing something at the right time when people need it. And that’s why it’s so powerful for leaders to be able to do in their organizations.

Eddie Turner:

So, you’re saying it doesn’t have to be something terribly huge or significant.

Howard Prager:

It’s huge and significant for the person at that time. So, yes, it can be a very small action. It could be saying thank you. It could be a smile. It could be giving some attention. Let me give you a quick story about Doug Conant, the former CEO of Campbell Soup and he was credited with turning around that company and he said the way he did it was he wrote 200 to 250 notes every week, handwritten notes, to leaders and managers throughout Campbell’s, praising them for some action that they did. And he points out in his book TouchPoints that smallest of actions that make the biggest difference in motivating leaders. And that’s what makes someone’s day is all about. And so, here’s an action, here’s a whole book in in concept by Doug that really talks about what he did to make someone’s day in his company.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you for sharing that. When we think about the leadership implications of this concept, what makes this a leadership competency?

Howard Prager:

Yeah, that’s great question. It’s a leadership competency because as leaders, your employees count on you, your customers count on you, your vendors count on you and, of course, your organization does too and you want and need to inspire them, to strengthen them and to support them. You want to retain your best talent especially during these crazy COVID-19 times and you want to retain your customers. And you can help do that by making someone’s day. And, as I said, it’s amazingly simple. It doesn’t have to cost much. It just needs to happen when they need it and in a way that helps the most.

Eddie Turner:

And so, we see from the example of the leader of Campbell’s Soup that you mentioned, the CEO, that this certainly is something that leaders want to add to their arsenal of skills and competencies and this one doesn’t cost anything.

Howard Prager:

Right. It doesn’t have to. So, as I said, it can happen in small and big ways. So, larger ways that do cost something is people are motivated in different ways, as I’ve said. And so, some people like learning or education is something that motivates them. It’s a way for them to grow and it’s a way for them to be able to develop.

Eddie Turner:

Absolutely. Sorry, I was making the point that you made with the Campbell Soup, how he handwrote a thank you note. So, in that sense, it didn’t cost anything but, yes, in other cases, it may be that it will cost.

Howard Prager:

Right, right.

Eddie Turner:

It doesn’t always have to cost.

Howard Prager:

Exactly. And that’s the thing, Eddie. It’s a great comment is that there’s so many actions you can take as a leader to inspire and help your team and to help other leaders within the organization that doesn’t have to cost anything. It just takes some attention. Other times, you do want to invest something and know that you’re going to get back as well.

Eddie Turner:

And especially during this time, it’s even more important, as you said, during this crisis that we’re going through because many organizations are watching their bottom line but doing these small acts can go a long way to making someone’s day and supporting the organization during this difficult time.

Howard Prager:

So true. So well said. And you’re right, we’re going to be needing to come out of this stronger, more flexible and more focused on what needs to be done to stay as a going concern. And that’s what we all want to do, right? We want our organizations and we want us to succeed. And to do that, we have to have our people succeed. So, we need to find ways to be able to ensure we’ve got the right people and motivate them and inspire them in the right way so that’ll happen.

Eddie Turner:

So, you’ve given us a couple of examples. Are there other examples you can provide for those who are listening to us wondering “Well, I’d like to get started but those two examples you said so far may not work for my personality.”

Howard Prager:

Sure, sure. Let me give you some examples of people who I’ve spoken to and let me share really how simple it can be to make someone’s day. And part of that is looking at, and I talk to people about what was their best boss and best boss experience, and I hope your listeners, as I say that, are thinking back to what their best boss experience is or has been and how they’ve been able to become a best boss as well. Unfortunately, if you try googling it, you get 10 times as many examples of worst bosses as you do best bosses. So, something that should be so simple and easy, people don’t necessarily do. And so, it’s important to be able to make sure that we put the effort and energy in.So, here are some great examples. I love this just because of the way it ended. “My best boss had this magic where he could just make you feel like you could do absolutely anything. He instilled confidence like no one I’ve ever known. There’s a lot of lip service every day to team players but at the risk of sounding like a cliché, he really had a way of making you feel like you’re part of a team. You knew what you did mattered and it mattered to the company and it mattered to him. I don’t have any idea how he did it. He didn’t give effusive compliments. He didn’t give empty praise. There are no weekly luncheons or gift cards. He just said “Thank you. I couldn’t have done it without you” and you knew he meant it. There was never a question that he had your back. He engendered a loyalty that’s so rare. I haven’t worked for him in years but if he needed a kidney, I’d see if I was a match.”

Eddie Turner:

Oh wow! Talk about making an impression.

Howard Prager:

Yeah, yeah. And as I said, unfortunately also, we don’t have a lot of best bosses in in our career but when they come out, they stand out and they stand out not for the big grandiose things they do but for the little things they do, for the way that they’re open and honest, that they communicate fairly and clearly, that they’re positive and enthusiastic, and they ask how they can help you. They introduce you to their bosses and promote your work in every opportunity. They take responsibility and don’t shift blame. They do all they can to make your day, to make your job and to make your career.

Eddie Turner:

Okay. Well, I’m talking to Howard Prager and we’re talking about how leaders can make someone’s day and we’ll have more with Howard right after this.

This is Whitney Johnson, host of the Disrupt Yourself podcast and you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

We’re back. I’m talking to Howard Prager, an executive coach and one of Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 coaches and we’re talking about how leaders can make someone’s day.Howard, before the break, you were telling us how we can make someone’s day as a leader at work. What about at home? Is it important to make someone’s day there as well?

Howard Prager:

Absolutely, Eddie. It’s so important to make someone’s day with our families We live with them, we love them, they’re with us throughout the journey, right? And so, why not try to make their day too, to make their day and help them see themselves and for you to see them in a new light.

Eddie Turner:

And what makes this important besides the fact that we’re together with them all the time? Is there anything along the lines of congruence that makes this something we should consider?

Howard Prager:

We grow up with whether it’s siblings or friends or family and they get this idea of who we are. And I think what you want to do is you want to both keep that congruent, as you say, and you also want to make sure that they see how you’re developing and how you’re growing. And believe me, they got all got a stake in you, Eddie. Everybody wants you to succeed. No one doesn’t want you to succeed. I think of the things I learned from my mom and dad. As a matter of fact, I’ve got to tell you a friend of mine who you may know, Ed Betof, was Chief Learning Officer at Becton and Dickinson and he and his wife put a book out called Leadership Lessons for Any Occasion: Stories of Our Mothers and it was all about stories of our mothers and what they did to impact us in our lives. And it was just beautiful. He had gotten to know my mom and he asked me if I wanted to contribute to it and I loved being able to do that and to really to reflect and think about what are the things I learned from her. And there’s so much when we really stop and think about it.

Eddie Turner:

I like that title. I think that is definitely a book worth reading and that’s a title I’d love to interview on the show.

Howard Prager:

All right.

Eddie Turner:

Now, is there a difference between whether someone is an introvert or an extrovert in terms of how they apply this concept?

Howard Prager:

Excellent question. And, certainly, there is, right? For extroversion, there’s just so many different ways that we can go ahead and do it. It could be a smile, a word, a greeting, a comment, some help but for introverts, that’s much harder. As matter of fact, I just read how introverts are thriving so much with this work from home and not having to see people in the office all the time, that they’re being much more productive and happy but they can make someone’s day too and it’s simple. And this is going to sound really stupid, Eddie, because we’re all so technologically smart in some ways but the LIKE button was created just for that, to provide a statement of approval, the same type of LIKE button that we see on Facebook and social media. Ted Koppel interviewed the creator of this LIKE button and he said “I was tasked with finding out how can we make it really easy for people to share little bits of positivity and affirmation in the world.” Isn’t that beautiful?

Eddie Turner:

It really is.

Howard Prager:

And then just think about when you go beyond that, when you comment on something, when you more than like it and you make a comment on it. How good that feels to you and how much that is important to you. When people have birthdays these days and the birthday is known on social media, they get deluged with comments and likes. And when I say deluged, maybe it’s 10, maybe it’s 20 maybe, it’s 100, maybe it’s 200, whatever it is. It’s a lot of positivity coming at you. And as managers, leaders, we can do that with our people, with our people who are introverts and prefer not having that public action. We need to be able to do that with them as well.I’ll give you an example and it’s about my son Jacob. He was working for a large accounting firm as an industrial engineer and he got a note from the partner in charge at this accounting firm. He had been working several days without sleep on a new software program that was going live for a large client. And the partner called out Jacob’s work in a thank you and copied the whole executive suite.

Eddie Turner:

How about that.

Howard Prager:

Can you imagine how motivated Jacob felt after seeing something like that. What type of effort do you think he’s going to put in? Do you think he’ll do that again?

Eddie Turner:

Of course, he will.

Howard Prager:

So, it really doesn’t take much but that’s a nice way. It goes back to Doug Conant, with the idea of putting it in writing. That’s a great example of how you can make someone’s day for an introvert.

Eddie Turner:

It definitely goes back to that example of that CEO and here, again, you’re sharing an example that’s close to home and certainly an example of another senior executive taking the same type of an action of the power of a couple of simple words.

Howard Prager:

Yes, yes, absolutely.

Eddie Turner:

So, what else are we missing around this topic, Howard?

Howard Prager:

Eddie, it’s interesting. At first, I didn’t think how can I write a book about this. And it just started to flow and the more I looked into it, the more I wrote, the more I researched, the more I learned. So, for example, I’ve been talking about this neurological effect and that’s been studied quite a bit. And especially when you talk about introverts, my gosh, Facebook has a team of scientists looking at the impact and how that helps people and how we feel uplifted by it. Neurologists describe it as an endorphin rush that you get from doing it – your brain feels good, you experience an emotional uplift and it changes the course in a day that provides a powerful positive impact on you. And, as I said, the person who’s doing it gets the boomerang effect because when you realize and say “Gee, you made my day,” they get that back as well. So, that’s one of the pieces I think is just really powerful about this whole process.The other things are just ways that we can use it and work and be. I talked a little bit about the past and celebrations are great ways to make someone’s day. And we’ve all got different traditions at work in our workplaces. When I worked in executive education, we did a crazy thing. Whenever we got a new client and program, we got this big ugly plastic frog that croaked when you turned the button on. And we would croak it out loud for everyone to hear whenever that happened. And we used the frog because our name was originally ‘Leap’. And so, we would decide “Well, frog must be our mascot” sort of thing. And when that awful croaking sound happened, people would gather around from all over to learn about the latest client and the program we would be offering. And it sounds really nuts but when you’ve worked hard to bring in a new program and have a chance to share it with others, it really makes your day for you to be able to croak that frog.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Well, thank you for sharing that, Howard. What is the key message you want to leave our listeners with today?

Howard Prager:

I think the key message really is, first of all, to be purposeful, to choose to make someone’s day and to do so by observing the world around you, both online and in person, to determine what may be needed from what you observe and to be spontaneous and really being able to just go and do it. And reflect and see how it happens. People don’t always say “You made my day” but it’s amazing how many times they do. And so, what I’d like to do is just encourage all of the listeners to realize that they can be making someone’s day at work as leaders, at home as parents, and with their friends in the community. And as they do that, it’s going to have a huge impact on others that they’re doing it for.

Eddie Turner:

Is there a piece of advice that you live by or a quote that you use that helps you to keep leading?

Howard Prager:

My favorite saying is that “Anything is possible” and I really truly believe that. The things that I’ve been able to experience and have happened in life are just things that if I planned for them, they wouldn’t have happened early on. Most of us have careers and lives that’s not a straight line to the top, right? We have our ups and downs and everything else but to realize and to always, remember especially when you’re at that low point, that anything is possible. I think that’s something that keeps me inspired and motivated.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. And where can my listeners learn more about you, Howard?

Howard Prager:

Thanks for asking, Eddie. My organization is called Advance Learning Group and they can find that on the web and they can look me up on LinkedIn under my name Howard Prager and they’ll be able to find articles and other pieces that I’ve developed and shared.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. Well, we will put all of that in the show notes to make it easy for folks to find you and connect with you and follow you.Thank you, Howard.

And thank you for listening. That concludes this episode of the Keep Leading!® Podcast. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 104 | Make Someone’s Day as a Leader | Howard Prager appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 103 | Becoming a Certified Virtual Facilitator™ | Eileen Dowse, Ph.D.

admin — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 08:03:20 +0000

Eileen Dowse, Ph.D.
Certified Master Facilitator® and Chair of INIFAC
Becoming a Certified Virtual Facilitator™

Episode Summary
Dr. Eileen Dowse is the Chair of the International Institute for Facilitation (INIFAC). She explains the importance of the newly created Certified Virtual Facilitator™ credential and how to achieve it.

Keep Leading LIVE!™ (38 Minutes)

Keep Leading LIVE!™

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Eileen Dowse Ph.D. is an insightful, global leader specializing in creating ‘collective impact’ for her clients. She is blazing new trails in the practice of Agile Leadership- which emphasizes quality, speed, and collaboration. As an Organizational Psychologist, she is one of the thought-leaders helping organizations focus on being responsive, adaptive, and effective in an era filled with confusion, contradictions, and corruption. She has extensive practical experience in the field of global leadership and cultural competency development.

Eileen is an award-winning author of “The Naked Manager, How to build open relationships at work.” She has also written “The Agile Business Leader, The Four Roles of Successful Leaders,” which has been translated into Chinese. She is widely regarded as one of the leaders in international facilitation and a co-founder and Chair of the International Institute for Facilitation.

Clients seek Eileen for her services in executive coaching, educational programs, and facilitating sessions to produce innovative results. She has mastered the art of identifying the root of organizational issues and implemented strategies that allow leaders, teams, and entire organizations to become more effective.

INIFAC
INIFAC advances mastery in facilitation that helps individuals, groups, and organizations around the world achieve collaborative results.

The International Institute for Facilitation (INIFAC) was created in 2003 when five facilitators came together to develop a certification program at the master’s level.

The Certified Virtual Facilitator Credential
The INIFAC Certified Virtual Facilitator™ credential focuses on the facilitator’s experience in using virtual platforms while facilitating meetings. This credential is for anyone who leads virtual meetings and wants to distinguish themselves as someone who has completed a quantifiable performance review by a trained virtual facilitation assessor. This certification confirms you know how to conduct and participate in virtual meetings effectively.

Eileen’s Website
https://human-dynamics.com/

INIFAC’s Website
https://www.inifac.org/the-inifac-certified-virtual-facilitator/

Eileen on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eileen-dowse-ph-d-cmf-mcec-b3a449/

INIFAC on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/company/international-institute-for-facilitation/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/eileendowse

INIFAC Twitter
https://twitter.com/INIFAC

Check out Eileen’s First Interview on the Keep Leading!® podcast
https://eddieturnerllc.com/keep-leading-podcast/kl028-the-agile-and-facilitative-leader/

Leadership Quote
“Today’s mighty oak is just yesterday’s little nut that held its ground.”

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Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information
www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com

Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

All right. So, welcome to another or I should say, in this case, a special episode of Keep Leading LIVE™. This is a special episode because the Keep Leading LIVE™ stream as well as the Keep Leading!® Podcast are dedicated to leadership development and insights. And so, every show is surrounding that theme. Today’s theme, well, it will be about leadership, in fact, Facilitative Leadership. It will be dedicated exclusively to the International Institute for Facilitation or INIFAC and I am joined by the chair of INIFAC, Eileen Dowse, Dr. Dowse, as she’s better known.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Hi, Eddie. And what a delight it is to be here. You and I are both very passionate about this topic about virtual facilitation or facilitation in general. So, I can hardly wait to have this discussion.

Eddie Turner:

Can’t wait. And so, what we’re going to ask you to do is we talk about something very important to us today. We’re both on the board of INIFAC but Dr. Dowse is not just on the board. Eileen is one of the co-founders. There are the two people that co-founded INIFAC and she is one of them and she serves as the chair. And what we’re going to talk about today is how you can become a certified virtual facilitator and why it’s important, why it matters.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

I was just going to say apparently it does matter, Eddie, because we began this certification on June the 10th and now about six weeks out, we have almost 60 people certified. So, this is a hot topic and your program today is a hot topic.

Eddie Turner:

Well, thank you for sharing that because even I didn’t know what the new number was. So, I’m already learning something. And that’s saying a lot because that number matches our credential holders for both of our premiere credentials almost in total in that short window. So, that’s good to know.

So, we’re broadcasting today on three platforms – LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube. And we want to encourage you to be a part of this discussion. This is not a presentation, unless you don’t join us. It’s going to be a discussion with you the audience and all those people out there around the globe who’ve been sending emails or calling, asking us questions. And so, I said to Eileen “Hey, you know what, I’m getting a lot of questions, you’re getting a lot of questions and I’m answering the same questions over and over. Wouldn’t it be nice if there was a way we could talk to everybody at once and did it with you?” and it hit me. I know.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

I know. Let’s do a trifecta of everything.

Eddie Turner:

So, we’re doing it here on the Keep Leading LIVE™ channel. So, ask your questions in the chat, say hello to us, let us know you’re here let us know where you’re joining us from around the world, put your questions in the chat, hit LIKE if you like what we’re talking about and hit the SHARE button. You’re going to want to share this so your friends could be a part of our discussion so that even if they miss the discussion, they will have access to the recording live immediately on their feed.

We started on June 10th. So, that means somewhere in May, I don’t remember exactly what day, I called Eileen and I said “Eileen, I got an idea.”

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

That was your first mistake.

Eddie Turner:

I am now a certified virtual presenter and that’s different from being a certified speaking professional. Less than 17% of the speakers in the world have this credential but just because you know how to handle a stage, it doesn’t mean you know how to handle the virtual platform. And so, if we’re doing that for speakers, I think it’s even more important for facilitators.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah.

Eddie Turner:

I gave the closing keynote at the National Speakers Association’s Winter Conference in 2018 and I said “The future of speaking is facilitation.” Now, I didn’t know how precious that was because now I would say what I’ve said so much in our speaking world is that all speakers need to be more facilitative and now because everything’s online, it’s even more so important.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Not only is it important from the online perspective, I believe, that a lot of people are wanting that type of interaction with their colleagues and with the people they report to. So, if you don’t know how to facilitate a discussion, please go out and find out how. It’s really important.

Eddie Turner:

It’s really important, absolutely.

Before we begin talking about the Certified Virtual Facilitator credential, it probably makes sense to talk about what is a facilitator.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah. Eddie and I have hung out for many years. So, he’ll know that I’m about to go inappropriate and he’s like “Oh dang! Why do I invite this woman on my show?” So, I’ll give you an appropriate answer and an inappropriate answer. Let me start with what could be an inappropriate answer. And I only say that because this response might not appeal or connect with a lot of audiences. Sometimes, when I’m describing what a facilitator is, I say it’s like being a midwife. You didn’t make the baby but you’re helping to deliver the baby, right? And some audience members are like “What! I don’t get it.” So, another analogy I give for facilitation is it’s like being a sherpa. You are helping a group climb up the mountain, right? What they see on the mountain, that’s not the sherpa’s responsibility. It is the group member’s responsibility for the content. The sherpa is responsible for getting there safely. The midwife is responsible for helping to deliver that baby safely. What happens after that journey up the mountain or after that baby is delivered, that’s up to the parents, that’s up to the mountain climbers. And that’s really what a facilitator does. They are the person that deals with the group dynamics and deals with the process that’s going to be used and all the different tools and techniques or “Do you put them in breakout rooms? Do you put them in an activity? What do you do?” That’s what facilitators do.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. And INIFAC happens to offer the highest credential in the facilitation industry. What’s it called it?

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

It’s what we do and it’s the Certified Master Facilitator. And what we found is there are some different certifications out there and there are some facilitators who do a great job. And then there are some meetings with different participants that the volume is turned up a little bit, the dynamics that I was talking about, the dynamics are a little bit more challenging, the types of topics that need to be dealt with can be a little bit more challenging. And so, it’s the certified master facilitator who not only has experience but, I often say, have more tools in their toolbox to help that group achieve that end result that they want to achieve.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. And so, to come up with the certification for the Certified Master Facilitator, this wasn’t something that was just thrown together. What did you do in terms of competencies when you created that?

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Great question. Thank you. Maybe I’ll just begin by saying INIFAC is a certifying body only. We are not a membership organization. There is a huge benefit to having membership organizations out there and that network and camaraderie. INIFAC only certifies. And so, when we looked at “Okay, what does it take to be a great facilitator?”, the academic in me was like “Well, we have to do research.” So, we went out and we certified people who hire facilitators, people who are facilitators, people who attend meetings and we said “What works for you?” And we took all of that information and from that information, we came up with six competencies – presence, can you assess the group for what they need, can you communicate with the group, can you control the dynamics and the frustrations and the anger and the people who are perhaps just wanting to talk to speak and just wanting lots of attention, and can you do that consistently, and then the last one is can you evaluate the whole process, can you learn from your experience and be better tomorrow than you were yesterday.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. So, six key competencies and 30 total sub-competencies.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Correct.

Eddie Turner:

So, I asked about the Certified Master Facilitator because when I came to you and said “I have this great idea. Here’s a certification we should offer that meets the needs right now of facilitators around the world.” I said “Here you go, Eileen. Here’s what I think we should do.” And I want people to know that what INIFAC is certifying people on today looks nothing like what I brought because you took it and you added the INIFAC qualifications for a Certified Master Facilitator, you took those key competencies we used for that premier credential and you used that to build out the Certified Virtual Facilitator credential.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah. You know what, Eddie, you know I’m a camper and it only takes a little match to start a big bonfire. So, I think you started a bonfire. And the reason why I say that bonfire is what we wanted was something simple and I was going to say easy but it’s not easy, something that’s simple and something that’s quick and something that’s all-inclusive. Now, those are pretty high standards to set. And I have to say I am really proud of this because we achieve that every time I do an assessment. And I don’t prompt the candidate. At the end, they say “I can’t believe how much you covered in 30 minutes.” And that’s what it is. It’s a 30 minute-interview. That’s all it is. There’s a group of assessors. The assessor sits down with you for 30 minutes and you have a conversation and we pick your brain. We pick your brain about all kinds of things. So, I would love to hear in the chat box if anybody wants to know what some of those brain picking things might be.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, I’m going to share that in just a hot second but first let me show, I got ahead of myself, this is the credential that you end up with, this is the medallion – the Certified Virtual Facilitator – specifically an INIFAC-Certified Virtual Facilitator. And why an INIFAC-Certified Virtual Facilitator? For the reasons you just explained. An INIFAC-Certified Virtual Facilitator has mastered specific competencies that are considered the highest in the industry. You receive this medallion and a wonderful certificate to put on your wall from Dr. Eileen Dowse.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

And the executive director.

Eddie Turner:

And our amazing executive director Cameron Whitehead, absolutely. We’ll have more right after this.

Hi. This is Dr. Steven Stein, psychologist and Founder of MHS Assessments and you’re listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

The other thing I’m going to talk about in terms of our certification is I’m getting a lot of questions directly and one of the big ones has been who should pursue the CVF, who is it for.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Wow! Great question. The flippant answer is “Well, anybody” and in a way it is anybody. We’ve had some business leaders who say “You know what, I’m really interested in this. I want to be a certified virtual facilitator” even though they’re a manager, in this case, this person was a VP. We’ve had a lot of internal and external facilitators. We’ve had speakers. Basically, this credential is for anyone who wants to get some peer review on themselves and who conduct virtual meetings. This is not can you get on a camera and look okay and turn on the right buttons. This is actually can you facilitate. So, some of those questions that we ask are things like “How do you move from one agenda item to another?” And there are some techniques to do that.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah. And if the person says “What’s an agenda?”, then we know we’re in trouble, right? It’s amazing how many people still don’t use agendas. They invite you to a meeting and you’re just supposed to show up – “We hit the start button on the Zoom session and here we go.” No, what is the order of events or, as we say in mathematics, the order of operations?

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

That’s right. And the other thing is we often will say, some people go “Oh my God, the facilitator is coming on. We got to do those stupid ground rules or whatever” and there’s been a bit of a change to virtual etiquette and now people have gotten very jazzy and we now call that virtual netiquette, right? And no matter what you want to call it, it’s still framing up the conversation. So, so in a way, we do that all the time. We frame up conversations – “Hey, Eddie, could I just talk to you for five minutes?” or “Could I talk to you at 6 o’clock for five minutes?” So, we frame up conversations. Why the heck don’t we do that for meetings? Why the heck don’t we start and say “The purpose of this call is to X. And if we could get done five minutes early, then all of us can go run off, get a bio break before we have to jump on to another meeting.”

Eddie Turner:

And we want you to understand at all levels, no matter who you are, how are you operating on different platforms because certain skills transfer over nicely from one platform to the other and there are others that are very platform specific but a certified virtual facilitator typically has mastery of two or more platforms to achieve the credential.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

That’s correct. And, obviously, Zoom is bubbling up to the top for ease, not only ease for the participant because it’s becoming so common. There are some nice features like breakout rooms that facilitators are really liking.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, indeed. And then speakers have asked me, I’m a part of a lot of organizations, I guess, but my primary organizations, of course, are my coaching career, we’ve got the International Coaching Federation and the National Speakers Association where I hold my speaking credentials. And so, some of the speakers have said “Do I need that?” and I’ve said “Yes.” My whole premise in 2018 when I gave that speech was speakers should be more facilitative and, certainly now, all the more so because speakers are not getting on stages, they are having to work within this little box or should I look at my camera up here instead of looking at you but we’re having to work that. So, how do you work that effectively, how do you do the engagement differently than what we do in the big grand ballrooms?

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah, that’s right.

Eddie Turner:

So, to your point, I think everyone can benefit from having facilitative skills and by demonstrating that competency and during this downturn, for many people, they’re finding that an extra credential doesn’t hurt.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah. And you know what, let’s talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly here., We have had some people that have not passed the CVF. And in one case, the person had logged on and after five minutes they said “Peace out. I just realized I need to do some more thinking” and it was like “You know what, you’re right.” And then they came back and they knocked it out of the park. Another person came close to passing and didn’t and within a week went back, did a little bit more studying, came back again, knocked it out of the park.

So, the reason why I’m telling you this story is not because it’s particularly difficult, if you know the information, and we try to make it very conversational and not nerve-wracking and “oh my goodness!” If you do this and you do it right, then it’s really, really simple and you have this lovely conversation and you share what you know and then you are able to tell folks “I’ve had a peer review and I can do this.”

Eddie Turner:

Yeah. In fact, while I ask you this next question, I’m going to put this up so folks can see this. If you are interested in seeing what we’re talking about, head on over to INIFAC.org. You can see the website URL at the top of this image and click on the button that says “CVF”. Then you will get all the details – How long it takes, 30 minutes; what exactly this is and what it costs. So, what an individual who achieves this can say if you are an employee, you’re not looking to be a paid facilitator as an independent one but you can say inside your organization “Here’s the competency I have.” Of course, if you’re independent, you can say this to your clients.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah.

Eddie Turner:

Now, Eileen, I notice here that we’re only charging 88 dollars for this credential. Why are we only charging 88 dollars for this credential?

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah, what were we thinking? What were we thinking because we’re not making any money if we charge that amount? Well, here’s what we’re thinking. We’re thinking that this is really valuable and let’s do this at cost and get the word out there.

Eddie Turner:

Actually, we’re not doing it at cost, right?

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Well, just about at cost.

Eddie Turner:

We’re kind of losing a little bit of this but we’re doing it.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah, we’re doing it. That’s right. Yeah, just barely doing it. And partially the reason why we’re just barely doing it is because folks like you, Eddie, and me are volunteering our time and saying “We believe in this. We want to share the knowledge. We want to share the love and the credential. So, get out there and do it.” And what we’ve said is “You know what, by December 31st, holidays are over. Well, then we will be upping the price at that point.”

Eddie Turner:

Yes. And even at that price, that’s more of our breakeven, right?

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Exactly.

Eddie Turner:

And you talked about the process. So, people are going through this 30-minute process which is very reasonable and they’re talking about what they are learning through the process of going through this. What’s been perhaps for you because I found that by doing these I’m learning and I thought I knew this stuff really, really well like nobody’s going to show me anything that I haven’t seen, I’ve heard of all the platforms, I’ve used them but I’m finding there are some platforms out there and some have come online because of this that I have never heard of. What are you learning?

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

I’m learning how excited people are about FAST.com. One of the things we check on for the certification is we check your bandwidth and your latency. And sometimes people don’t know about that. So, we give a little tutorial in the middle of the assessment. And people love the website to check how their internet is. And we have a standard that you need to meet in order to conduct virtual sessions. Some of the things that I’m learning about is … one very sad thing I learned was that I have a bit of a jealous streak because someone in San Francisco, their bandwidth was one gigabyte and I was like drooling on the camera, I’m like “Oh my God!” And he said to me “Eileen, I pay for this one gigabyte” and it was like “Oh wow! I didn’t even know you could do that work and I’d get some of that.”

And then the other thing I learned partially from you, Eddie, and then partially from another candidate was this whole idea of it’s important to have different camera angles. It’s almost like the old days of television where it was one camera, one angle. That’s what’s starting to happen in virtual. You need to have multiple cameras. So, because of that, I went out and got myself a document camera which is think of the old overhead projectors. So, you can change cameras and you can do some writing. And people like that because we are getting exhausted by constantly looking at a screen all day.

Eddie Turner:

Absolutely. And it’s interesting when you talk about FAST.com and how you arrived at that because when we showed this to the rest of the board, everybody had their favorite testing site for speed and we just settled on FAST, we said “Hey, this is better.” We didn’t disagree with the other sites but this was better. Now, this became very important because I did a very high-level program where I was the guest and the bandwidth came to a crawl and it was not pretty. We got through it and it was still a success but how much better it would have been had the individuals known that here’s a couple little small things you can do to test this connection beforehand or “Hey, if it’s high stakes, don’t run it on wireless. Hey, there’s something called ethernet.” – “Well, what is it?” So, we go through that when we’re assessing people. And we talk about redundancy and we get into what that looks like, what it means and candidates are learning from that.

And then we get into engagement strategies. What’s been your favorite engagement strategy? I want to put you on the spot.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah. Some of the engagement strategies are like the same ones – “Well, we can engage people with the chat box. We can engage people with breakout rooms” – but how these people are using those different tools are really exciting. And I may be saying things that everyone knows but who knows like chat bombs, right? So, you get everybody to put in their answer and then “1, 2, 3, push enter and send” and it’s like “Wow! We have all these answers” and it just adds a little bit of thrill. I just heard last week that someone suggested doing a scavenger hunt because it’s about getting people up out of their chairs. And sometimes we think “Well, you’re in a virtual meeting. You’ve got to sit down. You’ve got to do this. You’ve got to be serious.” It’s all changing. We’ve got kids running through the rooms, we’ve got cats on the desk and we need to figure out the balance of all of that, that how can we make this a little bit more enjoyable and more human.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, absolutely. So, we’ve been getting new strategies and I thought we were pretty good. We’ve got a lot of documented strategies both individually and our board collectively. We’ve got some serious strategies but I think all of us are learning something new as we go through this process as well.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

I had one more. This one is kind of cool and I haven’t ever heard this one before and it’s all about getting you to use upper body because we’re just sitting here. So, this one is using your arm like a dashboard. So, so often we’re doing this “Hey, thumbs up. We agree.” Well, this says if it’s flat line, you don’t agree and then if you go up or where are you in the dashboard. So, it’s just getting people to move a little bit in their chair and circulate some blood and maybe get some blood going to their head.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. Yeah, I remember that one. We can go through a whole lot of them. if we give too many, then we’re giving away the exam. Good. So, that’s one or two, if you want to use it for your exam. You got one or two.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

And if you’re really hungry, get talking in that chat box and we’ll answer more.

Eddie Turner:

So, here’s the other thing that comes up, Eileen. So, people have said “Okay, I’m interested in getting the certification. Great. I’m going to go to INIFAC.org, I’m going to click on CVF and I’m going to get certified but what if I need training? Do you offer training?”

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

I am sorry to say we do not and we are very specific at INIFAC to say we are a certifying body. Now, there are lots of different sources out there for training. And, Eddie, you and I have talked about this and it’s like you could get so overwhelmed, it’s like “What!” And quite honestly, I find that just talk to some of your colleagues. And Eddie and I will carry on conversations or I’ll talk to someone else and pass this information out to him and vice versa. So, share the knowledge with colleagues. And sometimes colleagues will say “Oh, I found this great site” and it just seems to help the absolute barrage of information coming to us on the how-to.

Eddie Turner:

Absolutely. Good. So, I’m enjoying this conversation with the co-founder and current chair of INIFAC – the International Institute for Facilitation – where we offer the highest credential in the facilitation industry.

If you are enjoying this conversation, hit the LIKE button, let us know that you like what you’re hearing. Let us know you’re here by saying hello in the chat. Tell us who you are and where you’re from. What question do you have about facilitation or the certified virtual facilitation credential or anything? We’re coaches. We’ll answer any question.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah, there you go. You know what, Eddie, you were talking about how we’re getting lots of questions. And one of the questions that I get a lot about is the “How do you appear on the screen?” because you only get your little box, right? So, for those who are presenters, it’s how do you work the room. For those who are facilitators, same kind of thing, but it’s how do you look on the screen. And I would like to propose that we just have a little conversation about that, things like lighting because you’ve got the circle lamp, you’ve got the soft box lamp, you’ve got not to sit in front of a window. Those are some of the things around lighting. What have you found?

Eddie Turner:

Well, one of the most painful lessons I learned is not to have a window open behind me. I did that one time for an interview but, yes, lighting. And then if you wear glasses like you and I, what type of light you want. The ring light is not our friend. So, soft boxes are your best lighting. Where you want it, whether you want one box set up or you want two set up. So, we talk about that and we ask people to explain that in their certification. We talk about the process in terms of selecting the platform you’re going to use, selecting the tools you’re going to use. You talked about using, I’m going to say overhead, the document camera earlier. I love being able to use the iPad and to be able to log into a session and then instead of using a whiteboard, being able to use an iPad and engage the visual learner, kinesthetic learner by simply the process of using that.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah. One of the things that I’m finding that a lot of people aren’t necessarily aware of is that you have to imagine your screen is divided horizontally in thirds and vertically in thirds.

Eddie Turner:

Oh, sorry, you were asking me about the screen piece. I apologize. I went away from that.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

That’s okay. As a good coach, I just brought you back on topic. And the goal is to be in that middle third. And I’ve had people even on the assessments or even in conversations, it’s almost like they’re using their body which is great but they get really close and then they get far away almost to the point where you can get nauseous of what’s going on or I have people who are sitting very high and then they’re looking down at you or the camera is o up and you can tell if they should have their nose hairs trimmed. So, it’s really important about staying in that middle third.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, it is. And you come close when you want to make a point where you want to lead in, right?

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah, exactly.

Eddie Turner:

There’s something I was going to tell you. My friend Dr. John Molidor, he’s a neuroscientist, he would say, if I remember correctly, we should always be to the audience’s right. So, I should be more further left. So, everybody has a different thing.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah, you’re right.

Eddie Turner:

I do like center third is usually a good rule.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

I’m with you. You would drive me crazy if you were just off balance but that’s me. The other thing is just around distractions too, right? We’ve had people, not only in this assessment, just talking to colleagues, the ceiling fan is going around. And, again, anyone who gets seasick, I’m like “Oh, get me the drama meme.” So, you have to watch out for those things.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. And then it shows up in terms of sound, which is another thing that we talk about the importance of having the proper microphone and then if you’re using a microphone, what you should be aware of between the difference in the microphone and the headset, where the audio is going, where it’s coming from and how you separate the two channels and why you do that. So, we get really specific when we get into this assessment.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah. And have you noticed that those people who are understanding all of this, “Oh, I need a better camera,” “Oh, I need a better microphone,” sadly, I want to say them, good luck trying to find one because it’s like the market has been glutted right now and everyone thinks “Oh, the microphone on my laptop is fine.” Yeah, kind of, sort of it is. It’s better to have an external mic in our minds anyways.

Eddie Turner:

Absolutely. All right. So, what did I miss? Did I leave anything out? I think I tried to ask you all the questions that I have been receiving. Is there anything you’ve been receiving that I missed?

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Anything I’ve been receiving? There are a couple things that I’d like to bring up for folks that I think would be beneficial to them.

Eddie Turner:

Okay, go for it.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

One thing that I believe people forget about is those terrible horrible awful moments when your internet crashes, your electricity goes out or if you’re using Zoom, your platform fails. So, we have conversations about what are your backup plans, what do you do in those “Oh my word” moments. And if you’re facilitating a meeting, you have to have a backup plan. Even if your backup plan is a backup person, that’s fine too. You’ve got to have a backup plan.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah, that’s that redundancy we were talking about. And an uninterrupted power supply goes a long way.

Angie is chiming in. Angie says she uses wireless Bose earbuds and the sound is so much better than using wired buds or the laptop. Thank you for chiming in.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah. Thanks, Angie. And you know what, on the receiving end, I’ve heard that those are pretty good. I’ve heard that those are pretty good and I’ve also heard that Apple now has noise canceling earbuds that I need to go check with my bank first if I can afford those but, yeah, I do think that they work just as well and sometimes they’re not as clunky. I was talking to someone the other day, a psychologist, who said there is something mentally disarming when you wear the earbuds. If you have the headset, you kind of look more formal or whatever. So, thank you for your point, Angie, because I think that is spot on.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you, Angie. Yeah, indeed. In fact, the audience who watches me every week will probably notice that I shift between using these and my Apple earbuds. Because I want a certain look, I don’t like to wear the headset. I use these when I’m doing the podcast behind the scenes because I separate my voice from the audio I’m hearing so that we have a clean track but I have found when I do these live episodes, for some reason, the times I use Apple earbuds, the audio was horrible because it was not using my main microphone. And so, it didn’t make those episodes as good. So, I’ll just say I’m going to stick with these for now but, yes, we’ll even notice that the newscasters, when we’re watching television, they’re all using the Apple earbuds. So, it is a thing. It is an official thing. That’s another way that Apple has taken over our lives.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Yeah. Okay, Angie, you’re on next on this show. You do the show. The other thing that I wanted to bring up that I think people really forget, and we talked about moving the body with different activities, is how do you get people engaged. And a large portion of that is your own energy. So, sure, there’s use the chat. Sure, there’s the put people into breakup rooms and have discussion but just be so conscious of your own presence and when a facilitator presenter comes up at a high level, the group will be a little bit lower. So, if that facilitator presenter is coming in at a medium level, your group is going to be at a low level. So, you really have to be on. And more and more I’m hearing how many facilitators who are doing this virtually are more exhausted at the end of a virtual session.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah, you’ve got to bring it. You’ve got to bring it.

Hey, someone you assessed has joined us – Iris Lopez.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Hi, Iris.

Eddie Turner:

She says “The certification experience was awesome with Eileen.”

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Thank you.

Eddie Turner:

How about that. She’s joining us from Puerto Rico and she was one of our talent development leaders there who ran the ATD chapter for Puerto Rico and she was also a guest on this show a couple of weeks ago. So, thank you for chiming in, Iris.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

And Iris, if you could chime in some more if you have any takeaways that you found from this assessment. I had shared some of the things that people have noticed along the way but if you have a specific “Ah, this is something I learned or something I didn’t realize I knew,” we would love to hear from you or anybody on this call.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah. So, we’re headed toward the wrap-up. So, if you’ve got any questions, this is your chance to jump in with your final questions. And if you haven’t hit SHARE yet, hit SHARE please so that your friends can get the answers to these questions. We hope to see you going to the INIFAC.org website and taking advantage of getting your medallion to become a certified virtual facilitator and having your certificate that you’re able to share with your friends. So, head on over there, check it out and we hope to be sitting in front of you assessing you really soon.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

And with that assessing, please know, we also laugh. I mean, this is not a scary thing, I promise you. We view this as colleague to colleague and really just sharing information and setting that standard.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah. No, we’re not scary.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

I mean, people are nervous. I get that but you know what, we just relax them and …

Eddie Turner:

Although true confession, I’ll tell people that when I went for my first INIFAC certification, Eileen Dowse did fail me.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

And baby, look at you now.

Eddie Turner:

Who is this Eileen Dowse person? Doesn’t she know I’m the best facilitator there is and she shot me down?”

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

And baby, look at you now. Look at you now.

Eddie Turner:

Oh gosh! So, she’s not scary but she is tough, I will tell you.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

You know what, I’m not going to argue with you on that and probably neither will my children. And you know what, you’re right. No kidding around, INIFAC does set a standard. I mean, we’re not throwing out credentials all over the place. We do have a standard and not everyone passes the CVF. And people come back and say “You know what, I learned.” Not everyone passes the CVF. You aren’t the only one, Eddie, and you’ve come back. So, it’s about raising that standard.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, raising the bar and keeping it high.

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

Absolutely, absolutely.

Eddie Turner:

Well, Eileen, thank you so much for agreeing to come on the show today at the last minute to talk about this because we talked about this on Sunday and then I was like “You know, I got to do this.” And even yesterday I had some more stuff come in.

Oh, before we part, Iris, is saying here “Yes, for me, it was a tremendous insight just being in the process.” That’s what I was saying earlier, right? “I became more aware of things that I already knew but during the assessment, Eileen just helped me figure out how important they are.” Wow! What a testimony! So, thank you for sharing that testimonial, Iris.

All right. So, any parting words before we leave?

Dr. Eileen Dowse:

I think it was Henry Ford who said “Whether you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re right.” And that’s kind of how it is with all this certification. whether you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re right. So, go ahead and try. And we really do believe that these kinds of peer reviews based on researched, surveyed checks and balances of what the credentials are, these are very important skills that you need to have. And I’ve even had people say “Wow! This has helped me in my marriage,” “This has helped me in my dating life.” Facilitation, like you said, Eddie, is the way of the future. We have got to know how to engage and interact with people better.

Eddie Turner:

Absolutely. Well, thank you.

And thank you for tuning in. This has been a special edition of the Keep Leading!® Podcast and Keep Leading LIVE™ and this will live on the INIFAC.org website for you to reference and get answers to the questions about how you can become a Certified Virtual Facilitator.

Thanks for tuning in, everyone. And remember, no matter what you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 103 | Becoming a Certified Virtual Facilitator™ | Eileen Dowse, Ph.D. appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 102 | Transformational Leadership | Dr. Terry Jackson

admin — Sat, 13 Feb 2021 11:00:56 +0000

Dr. Terry Jackson
C-Suite Advisor and Thought Leader
Transformational Leadership

Episode Summary
MG100 Coaches Eddie Turner and Dr. Terry Jackson discuss Transformational Leadership on Keep Leading LIVE!™

Keep Leading LIVE!™ (38 Minutes)

Keep Leading LIVE!™

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Dr. Terry Jackson is an Executive Advisor and TEDx Speaker. He is one of Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 Coaches. Terry is also a Thinkers50 Top 50 World Leader in Coaching. He was named by Thinkers 360 as a Top 20 Global Leader in the Future of work, and CIO Review Magazine named him as one of the “Top 10 Most Promising Leadership Development Solution Providers 2019.”

Website
http://jcgconsultinggroup.com/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/terence-jackson-ph-d-57618410/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/DrTerryJackson

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/SystemsPeopleProcess/

Leadership Quote
Nothing Happens if Nothing Happens.

Get Your Copy of Terence’s Book!
http://jcgconsultinggroup.com/products/books/

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Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information
www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com

Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

And with that, I want to say hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Keep Leading LIVE™. Keep Leading LIVE™, like the Keep Leading!® Podcast, is dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, facilitation, and professional speaking.

So, I’ve got a great guest today. I’ve got a true professor, a true leader here that I think you’re going to learn a lot from. And who is he? Well, let me tell you.

Well, I guess, we actually talk about what we’re going to say first, right? This is the Keep Leading!® Podcast, obviously, and it’s all about leadership. And I’ve talked about leadership from multiple angles with my guests but here’s an angle that I teach but I haven’t talked about on the show yet. So, I’m excited to talk about Transformational Leadership.

Transformational leadership, what is that? Well, to address that we’re bringing in Dr. Terry Jackson. Now, let me tell you about Dr. Terry Jackson. Dr. Terry Jackson is an executive advisor and a TEDx speaker. He’s also a Thinkers 50 top 50 world leader in coaching. Terry also was named by the Thinkers 360 as a top 20 global leader in the Future of Work and CIO Review Magazine named Terry as one of the top 10 Most Promising Leadership Development Solution Providers in 2019. If that’s not enough, I did say Dr. Terry Jackson and that’s because Dr. Jackson has a PhD in Management and he is one of Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 coaches.

Dr. Jackson, welcome to Keep Leading LIVE™.

Terence Jackson:

Thank you, Mr. Eddie Turner. Thank you for that very gracious introduction. I was wondering who you were talking about there for a minute.

Eddie Turner:

Well, you’re too kind, sir. And it is just an honor to have a gentleman of your caliber here on the show. This is what this show is all about. And so, we are both members of the MG100. And so, that’s how we’ve gotten to know each other and to be able to listen to your insights on our morning calls is truly a delight. So, we’re going to share you with the Keep Leading!® audience so more people can get to know about you.

Terence Jackson:

Thank you so very much. I look forward to it. It’s a pleasure to be on your show.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you. Terry, I guess the first question is, we should probably start off with what is transformation.

Terence Jackson:

That’s a very good question because a lot of people have the tendency to associate transformation or define transformation and change and say they’re synonymous and they’re actually not. The example I like to use is, of course, the analogy of from the caterpillar to the butterfly, right? That is a true transformation. Change in and of itself is different. Change can be reversed. For instance, one goes on a diet in hopes that they’ll lose 15 pounds. Well, they lose 15 pounds and then all of a sudden nine months from that they regained the 15 pounds. There was no transformation of mindset, transformation of dietary regimen, transformation of changing your lifestyle where you can exercise on a day-to-day basis to maintain that. Well, transformation is really about the assertion that the actions that you create today will create your future tomorrow. And so, transformation is beginning today creating a tomorrow but that tomorrow, the change is not based upon the past. Everything with change is based upon the past. So, basically, where we are now with COVID-19, this is a full transformation. This isn’t change because how we engage with clients, how we engage as human beings, that’s been transformed now and we really don’t know what that’s going to look like day by day, given what is happening with the virus. And so, that same type of thing happens with organizations as well. Organizations say “Well, we’re going to go through a change management process” and they go through it and then all of a sudden, five years from now, they’re still where they are because there wasn’t that cultural transformation again from that caterpillar to the butterfly, right? They didn’t prepare themselves mentally, physically. They didn’t disrupt themselves, right? They went on with the status quo talking about change but not really embedding it and implementing it into the culture, their DNA.

Eddie Turner:

I love that illustration with the caterpillar and how you explained that and setting us up with transformation. Can you connect that to leadership then for us, transformational leadership?

Terence Jackson:

Oh yes, and that’s the key, because, for me, I believe that all roads lead from and to leadership. And I think that every initiative actually is a transformational issue for leaders. Now, let’s take society today, let’s take where we are today. We are in some very trying times today. And given that, not only trying from a social perspective, from an organizational perspective, business models, new business models are being created simply because we were disrupted by COVID-19. In society, new societal rules are being created because of the George Floyd situation. People are revisiting diversity and inclusion as they’ve never done before. And I’m hearing more people talk about humanity versus titles and organizations. And so, with that, leaders are learning how to lead in a different way. We’re at the intersection of intellect and instinct. And so, what we’re really talking about in survival. And there are new skills that are needed in this. One of the skills is your counter-intuitiveness and how you utilize that counter-intuitiveness to do not what your habits would normally tell you to do but do just the opposite. And so, people are transforming right before our eyes because they’re breaking down their old habits, creating new habits and new pathways because they are not sure where we are headed as it relates to the economy and as it relates to society but what they see before them is new opportunity. And those opportunities are presenting themselves as a result of the transformation that’s been going on across the world because of COVID-19 and a transformation that is happening as a result of what we’ve seen in society. And so, some people are walking on eggshells and that’s simply because there’s a lot of transformation happening. And step by step and through the use of counter-intuitiveness, they’re making their way and we’re going to come out much greater and much better on the other side.

Eddie Turner:

Well, is this going to be the new normal?

Terence Jackson:

That’s interesting because I think transformation is a continuing process. It’s been accelerated. And the phrase “the new normal”, I don’t know what normal is, right? And so, as a result of that, there are organizations who’ve been using the new normal and the next normal and I’m not sure if it’s going to be the new normal or the next normal but what I do know is we’re going to continue the pace of change or transformation is going to continue to accelerate, we’re going to continue to have to remake ourselves and remake organizations. And so, if you want to say that transformation is the new norm, I would answer yes.

Eddie Turner:

Well, I asked that because when we look at that and you put together several events and boy, we could talk an hour on each one, you brought up obviously the COVID crisis and how this ties into the COVID, George Floyd and the situation around his death and we can talk about all of the recent deaths of black people in America and what that has meant. And so, all of that is affecting leaders in a different way and it’s calling on all leaders to think about transformation obviously and what that means. That’s why I asked you about do you think that’s going to be the new normal. And, as you said, some people are trying to figure out new normal, next normal, abnormal and all the likes.

Terence Jackson:

Well, interesting times. That’s all. Very interesting times.

Eddie Turner:

Interesting times indeed.

Angie is weighing in. She said “Adaptation and transformation is the key with business as well as personal. Such an important topic. Thank you.” Angie, you’re spot on. Thank you so much for weighing in and sharing your thoughts. We appreciate that.

Terence Jackson:

It’s interesting because she just used the word ‘adaptation’ and there’s an acronym that I like to use when I hear ‘adapt’ and it relates to transformation and that is to anticipate, right? So, you have to be able to anticipate what’s going to happen down the street and around the corner, right? You have to be able to anticipate. As a business leader, you have to be able to anticipate that as someone in society, right? What’s going to happen next? And then you go from the anticipation to the drive, right? You have to have the drive to be able to … once you anticipate and you see what’s happening, the drive to continue in the direction that you’re headed, the internal drive to be motivated. And then you have to be able to accelerate during that drive and during that anticipation because this is the slowest day um for the rest of your life right here, today. Everything else is going to get much faster. And then from that you have to be able to partner with people and collaborate as organizations because we’re going down a pathway that’s not comfortable for us, it’s not familiar with us. And then at the end of the day, the key word to tie that all together is ‘trust’ and you have to have the courage not only to trust yourself but to trust your organization, trust leadership, and trust that society is becoming much better for this.

So, ADAPT is an extremely important concept within transformation.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed, well said, well said.

I am talking to Dr. Terry Jackson and he had a long list of credentials but one of them is the fact that he is one of Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 coaches and he is a PhD in Management. We’re talking about Transformational Leadership. We’ll have more right after this.

This is Laura Gassner Otting, Founder and Chief Catalyzing Officer of Limitless Possibility and you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

At this point in the show, I always have to stop and acknowledge. I have several sponsors of the show who we listed on the website but there’s one sponsor who renews over and over. And so, we give this particular sponsor a little extra time on the show and that is Grand Heron International. The key to sustainable leadership lies in the ability to thrive during uncertainty, ambiguity, and change. Grand Heron International brings you the Coaching Assistance Program, giving your employees on-demand coaching to manage through a challenging situation and arrive at a solution. Visit GrandHeronInternational.ca/Podcast to learn more.

I love my friends over there Grand Heron International in Canada, just a phenomenal coaching service that they provide to leaders everywhere, quite frankly. Even though they’re based in Canada, their reach is global. So, please visit them and support Grand Heron International.

Before the break, you used a couple good illustrations for us to help us understand transformational leadership, its impact on leaders today. And we had a great comment that came in from one of the individuals who runs the ICF headquarters, and does some great work for our coaches around the world, Angie Holleran. And Angie talked about how the adaptation and transformation is key with business as well as personal. And, quite frankly, that’s what leadership is all about, right? We can’t show up in business as someone different than who we are personally. And so, making that connection is absolutely important. So, we want to thank Angie for that.

Something else that you do, when I look at your website, is you do a lot around change management. And as coaches, our ultimate goal is to get people to change behaviors. So, tell us the link between transformation and change.

Terence Jackson:

Well, that’s very interesting because change happens within transformation, that whole process. So, it is a construct within the whole discipline of transformation. However, to make the distinction, transformation doesn’t necessarily happen within change and I gave that distinction earlier. So, as I talk about and I implement change management through coaching, it’s really about getting the people to take a look at themselves, define what it is they’d like to be able to change and then to go on that journey, right? And ultimately, that journey, even though it’s based and rooted in change management, I want it ultimately to come out as a transformational journey for them that they continue and that they continue to understand what it is to evolve. And I’ll go back to the analogy that I used of the caterpillar to the butterfly. I want them to be able to see that at the very beginning of the change. So, we’re talking behavior change but I want you to be able to see a new being. For instance, I utilize coaching methodology that lot of us are very familiar with and that is the Marshall Goldsmith Methodology. And so, in that, we get executives to take a look at their behaviors or their stakeholders to take a look at their behaviors and help identify what areas within their management or leadership or as a human being that could be changed, it would help them go to the next level of performance within an organization or the next level of performance as a human being because we’re dealing with a human being. And you said it a few minutes ago. You want to show up the same in person as you do in business because we make up 100% as a human being, we are 100%. So, we can’t really separate one from the other even though we here leave work at work and leave home at home. No, home is going to impact work, work is going to impact home. So, as we talk about that behavior change, say increased executive presence, how to become a better communicator, whatever we do around that behavior change is going to have a positive impact in professional life as well as our personal life. So, we begin with that change in hopes that that change leads to an ever-evolving transformation as you begin to be able to assess who you are as an individual and what it means for you to become a better individual and take whatever that performance is to a new level and that performance, I will also say, as a human being how do you really engage and become a better human being and really be able to connect to humanity because I think that’s where we are right now from a leadership perspective, right? We’re seeing some very human acts out there. We’re understanding that it’s human beings that are being impacted, not necessarily CIOs or CEOs or CTOs or managers and leaders, those titles. It’s Eddie Turner, it’s Terry Jackson, it’s the humanity of it’s all that’s really being transformed.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed. Well said. And you made a good point that change is a component of transformation. If we’re going to be transformational or transform, as that caterpillar illustration, we have to change.

That leads me to wonder are there any other components to transformation that we should be thinking about as leaders?

Terence Jackson:

That’s an excellent question. I’m not big on plugging anything that I’ve done but I wrote a book on transformation.

Eddie Turner:

Plug away. Let us know.

Terence Jackson:

I wrote a book on Transformational Thinking: The First Step to Individual and Organizational Greatness. And so, within that book, I talk about several models and I talk about, what I call, the 11Ps of Transformation.

Eddie Turner:

The 11Ps.

Terence Jackson:

The 11Ps. And so, there are truly some components to transformation. When we’re dealing with the human being, we have to deal with a lot of things. The first we have to deal with is our perception, how we perceive things as we move forward. And let me give you an illustration here or a passage. It says “By broadening our horizons, our perceptions, we can begin to see what our potential really is. If we combine this potential by honestly committing ourselves to taking action which is consistently fair and ethical, our principles, we can commit ourselves fully to passion, to a set of beliefs as we learn about how we communicate and interact with others and we can include people in our thinking, we can define our life’s goals, our purpose and our plan and how to achieve our goals and create methods, processes through which we can ensure success finally by not giving up our perseverance that drive that journey. And being open to change, meaning that you’re pliable, we will be able to sustain our efforts and ensure that we are always headed in the right direction.” And so, that passage contains the 11Ps of transformation, the 11Ps of transformational thinking that are needed in order to have a successful transformational journey.

Eddie Turner:

All right. So, then you got to make sure you send me that book. Send me the book because when I publish this as a regular episode, I’m going to put the book on my website so listeners can link to it, okay?

Terence Jackson:

I sure will.

Eddie Turner:

Something came up. I got an email from our mutual friend Ayse Birsel and she invited me, she says Dr. Terry Jackson has started something that she’s passionate about. She says “Would you be part of this discussion?” So, you got us all together for a project that you started. I want you to tell my audience about this – Deconstruct Racism and Reconstruct Love.

Terence Jackson:

Wow, I didn’t know that was going to come up. Well, I’ll tell you we were all struggling with what we saw with George Floyd. And, of course, in our MG100 WhatsApp group, everybody was kind of searching for what you can do or what we can do in order to have an impact and hopefully change society. And I saw Ayse’s post that said “I really don’t know what to do. I want to do something but I don’t know what to do.” And so, as I thought about it, I’m like “She already has the model. Her model is from her book Design the Life You Love.” And so, what came to me was why don’t we deconstruct racism and reconstruct love. And so, with that, she loved the idea, we began to have a series of emails that included you and others within the MG100 and we began to convene via Zoom to talk about what makes racism what it is and what makes love what it is and to define it in four quadrants. Each has its own four quadrants that we were defining. And as we describe it, define it, of course, we’ll eventually compare and contrast and then develop solutions as to how we take this very valuable time that we have, because everyone has slowed down, so we can become more human, how we can really examine this thing known as racism and how can we deconstruct it and hopefully infuse some energy in it, some positive energy and turn this thing into love, right? People can understand from a very foundational perspective that we’re all human beings regardless of this construct called race. Now, the construct of race is a man-made construct but racism is real even though the is man-made. And so how, do you deconstruct it and then reconstruct love so that we can take these solutions and give them to the world and people can use it in hopes that we become better human beings as a result. And so, I’m excited about the project. I’ve heard some great terms. There’s been some great conversation but when you talk about deconstruction and reconstruction, we can use that in so many ways. There are people now who are deconstructing who they are given the fact of everything that’s happening. There industries that are being deconstructed. And it all ties back to leadership, right? Leaders listening and helping to facilitate thoughts and helping to facilitate action in this new society in which we’re moving into. So, it’s exciting times. It’s both exhilarating and exhausting at the same time.

Eddie Turner:

Absolutely. Well, I totally have enjoyed our first couple of sessions. I missed last week. I can’t wait for our session this week and keep the conversation going. So, thank you for what you’re doing on that for us.

Well, folks, we’re getting close to our wrap-up. If you have any questions for Dr. Jackson, please go ahead, put it in the chat box. And I’m just so grateful to everyone who’s joined us all the way from the UK, from the east coast and we have California in here and even folks who I haven’t seen in a while that I worked with years ago. I always love when that happens. I never know who’s going to come into the live show and that’s part of the fun of doing this. So, thank you, thank you, thank you.

While we’re waiting for any other questions, do you have an overarching message you would like to leave our listeners with today?

Terence Jackson:

Yes, thank you for that. And it’s related to transformation and transformational thinking and transformational leadership. And I like to pose these questions to people. Is it time that we all begin to assume the responsibility for improving our own lives and the world in which we live? Is it time to recognize our differences as a source of increased perception rather than barriers? Is it time we all get off our individual and collective butts and begin contributing and constructing rather than denouncing and destroying? Is it time to come together in a spirit of true communication, cooperation, and coordination? Is it time to build upon our strengths and develop our weaknesses? Is it time we recognize and celebrate the human spirit and tap into the incredible source of unlimited potential, redirecting our energy, time and efforts toward more constructive and meaningful purposes so that we minimize the impact of what we are seeing given the situation with George Floyd? Is it time for transformational leadership and transformational thinking? And the answer is yes.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Well, thank you very much.

On the Keep Leading!® Podcast and on Keep Leading LIVE™, I love to get your favorite quote, when I’m talking to leaders, that keeps you motivated or either the best advice you’ve ever received.

Terence Jackson:

The best advice I’ve ever received. And I want to say it actually is a part of your show, the title of your show, and from Alan Mullaly, and he’s a MG100 and it is “Keep leading.” So, keep leading means regardless if you’re up, if you’re down, there are people who depend on you to lead. You depend on yourself to lead yourself. So, you have to keep leading. You can’t mire yourself down in whatever obstacles may present themselves. You have to find ways over, around and under those obstacles. So, you just have to keep leading.

Eddie Turner:

I appreciate all my guests for tuning in. Where can they find you if they would like to find you to stay connected with you?

Terence Jackson:

If they want to find me and stay connected with me, I’m very active on LinkedIn. You can find me at Terence Jackson, Ph.D. You can also email me at Terry@JCGConsultingGroup.com. And so, either on social media, I’m on Twitter, it’s Dr. Terry Jackson. That’s how you can locate me. I like to be very in touch with my fans on a personal basis. And so, I don’t limit how you have access to me.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. Well, I’m going to make sure I put that in the show notes. We’ll make it easy. They’ll have one click to be able to get to you.

Terry, again for being a guest on Keep Leading LIVE™ and helping us all to understand the power of transformational leadership.

Terence Jackson:

Thank you. It was an honor and a privilege to be here.

Eddie Turner:

And thank you for listening and tuning in across the internet across the globe. I’m so grateful every week when we have an active conversation with the audience. Want to remind everyone, as I say every week, leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is action. Leadership is an activity. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment that we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 102 | Transformational Leadership | Dr. Terry Jackson appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 101 | Leading with Purpose in Chaotic Times | Laura Gates

admin — Tue, 09 Feb 2021 07:42:37 +0000

Laura Gates
Executive Coach | CEO Coach | Team Facilitator | Speaker and Author
Leading with Purpose in Chaotic Times

Episode Summary
Laura is an expert coach who explains how we can lead with purpose in chaotic times. We explore the unique framework she created and its application to coaching and team facilitation.

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Laura Gates is a sought-after executive coach, team facilitator, and advisor to executives at Silicon Valley’s top companies and VC-backed start-up Founders. With over 25 years of coaching experience, Laura’s prestigious client roster includes NASA, LinkedIn, Stanford University, and pioneers in biotech, AI, and cryptocurrency. She’s worked in prisons, homeless organizations, and global women’s initiatives. Her work building high performing teams through navigating conflict have been featured in First Round Capital’s Review. Culture Amp has featured her as a top executive coach. She’s been invited to speak in front of audiences worldwide, including VISA, American Women in Science, The Female Quotient, Consciously Unbiased, and the University of Texas Conference on Work Teams. She’s currently writing a book on harnessing our collective genius and leading with purpose while studying for a Master’s in Organizational Leadership from the University of Redlands. Laura started her career as a Wall Street Banker, has built two companies of her own, and helped found a leadership training company.

Website
https://gatesgroupllc.com/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauragates/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/Laurafgates

Leadership Quote
A mentor once asked me why I wasn’t stepping into my leadership.
I said, “I’m afraid it will consume me.”
She said, “don’t worry, it will.”
She was right.

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Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information
www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com

Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact. I do this primarily through the power of executive and leadership coaching, facilitation, and professional speaking.

We are living in difficult times and this is a time for leaders to step up and to shine as they step up. How can leaders do that? My guest today will explain how leaders can lead with purpose in chaotic times. My guest today is Laura Gates. Laura Gates is a sought-after executive coach, team facilitator, and advisor to executives at Silicon Valley’s top companies and venture capital-backed startup founders. In addition to being recognized as a top coach, Laura has been invited to speak in front of audiences around the world.

Laura, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Laura Gates:

Thank you, Eddie. It’s so lovely to be here with you today. I’m really excited about our conversation.

Eddie Turner:

Well, tell us a little bit more about you.

Laura Gates:

Well, right now, as you said, I’m doing leadership coaching, leadership training, facilitation. I get to work with really smart people doing incredible things in terms of breaking through pioneering technology and it’s been an exciting time in the world and I’m someone who believes that in these chaotic times, they can have incredible opportunities coming forward. So, I’m very thrilled to be here and see what the future is holding for all of us in the coming years.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. And it’s as if we had a lens to be able to see and be able to forecast and take appropriate actions. And so, in the absence of that, we’re going to talk about some strategies that you’ve come up with to help us be successful with that. I want to tell people a little bit though about how you and I met.

Laura Gates:

Oh sure.

Eddie Turner:

Well, actually you tell people how we met. I should just let you do that.

Laura Gates:

Well, yeah, we both met in Toronto, Canada, at a training that was for developing our leadership to master level skills and, yeah, it was lovely meeting some incredible people with Marcia Reynolds and Dorothy whose name I will pronounce badly Siminovitch.

Eddie Turner:

You got it, yes.

Laura Gates:

That’s how we met. And what’s your version of the story.

Eddie Turner:

Exactly what you said. You and I met in Toronto, Canada and we studied under the amazing Marcia Reynolds who at the time was ranked the number one female coach in the world and Dorothy Siminovitch, both of them master certified coaches with the International Coaching Federation, both of them some of the earliest credential holders with the ICF. Marcia, uniquely, one of the founders, one of the first MCCs, one of the first presidents, the fifth president and someone who had recently served on the board when she taught us. She had just come off the board. So, we had a chance to study under two true masters.

Laura Gates:

And now, we’ll be working alongside Marcia in her training program.

Eddie Turner:

How about that, huh? She’s taken two of her graduates and we are going to be running an amazing program for her as her faculty and facilitators as a part of the breakthrough coaching program. So, I’m looking forward to partnering with you, again, in a new way.

Laura Gates:

Yes, that’ll be fun

Eddie Turner:

Yes. So, now, as we think about what we’re doing and we think about this idea of how we help leaders lead with purpose in chaotic times, can you just tell us what it means to lead with purpose?

Laura Gates:

Absolutely. So, for me, leading with purpose means doing what has heart and meaning as well as what is needed from us. So, really, it’s about paying attention to what gives me joy, what gives me energy, where I can match, what Gay Hendricks calls, my zone of genius with my skills and abilities.

Eddie Turner:

Gives you joy. Gives you meaning. How does that lead to purpose?

Laura Gates:

Well, that to me is around how do I have an impact, where can I uniquely serve. If you think about it, we all know that we have a unique fingerprint. We don’t realize that we also have a unique iris color and a unique voice print when our voice is recorded. So, to me, that means that we’re all uniquely here to express something that comes from us that is not like anyone else. And part of our task is to really figure out what that is, how that shows up, what’s the best way of using this instrument that we are to be a part of the symphony that companies need, that organizations need and that our planet frankly needs during this time of change.

Eddie Turner:

Ooh! So, you got to have me geek out now, Laura, with that. I use the illustration of fingerprints all the time but unique iris, I don’t know that I knew that.

Laura Gates:

Color, yeah.

Eddie Turner:

And the color is unique to each person.

Laura Gates:

Yeah.

Eddie Turner:

And then the voice pattern. I didn’t think about that but now you have me thinking about all the digital work I do when I’m editing. That is so true.

Laura Gates:

So, even if we think we’re saying something that someone else has said before, because it’s coming through not only our unique expression, also our unique experiences, so often people will say “Oh, you know, I can’t write about that or speak about that.” Everybody’s speaking about that but there might be something you uniquely have to say through your own expression, through your own layers of experiences that is going to be heard by someone who actually needs that message differently. So, that’s why, I really encourage people to track and pay attention to what has, as I said, one of my teachers and mentors, Angeles Arrien, used to say, what has heart and meaning for them because what has heart and meaning for you is different than what that might mean for someone else. And that’s a clue to what is my unique purpose, what am I here to offer, how am I here to make an impact.

Eddie Turner:

How can we learn what that is for us as individuals?

Laura Gates:

Yeah, part of what I use in my coaching process, and I have a process that I call the Purpose Initiative which is a three-part process of trying to embrace and live and lead from a more purposeful place, and step one is making the unconscious conscious, understanding what are my patterns of behavior, what are the things that trip me up, where are the ways that I might sabotage myself along the way. So, if we don’t become conscious of those behaviors and patterns or thoughts or beliefs, as Brené Brown talks about, those can get in our own way. So, first step is where am I getting in my own way and how do I remove those obstacles.

The second step is what I call Disruptive Experimentation. And in part of that experimentation, I ask people to track, throughout the day, just note down on a piece of paper what brings you joy, what gives you energy, where do you feel energized. And it’s so fascinating to see what people come back with – “Oh, this meeting was boring but this one-on-one with my employee that I’m guiding them and coaching them on their career, that really gave me energy.” So, we start tracking and doing that homework of where do I lose my energy and where do I gain my energy and that usually gives us clues, kind of like a roadmap of “Oh, these things give me energy. How do I put more of that in my calendar? And the things that drain my energy, how do I delegate more of that and carve that out?” And when we carve that out, what happens is we create more space in our day and in our calendar and in our life. And what I see is as people carve out that time and they create that space, opportunities start to come, synchronicity starts to show up and they start operating more from a place of flow.

So, people often will say to me “Oh, I need to find my purpose” as if it’s something to check off the box on the list as opposed to if you create space and you get quiet and you listen to that small still voice, your purpose is actually stalking you on a daily basis.

Eddie Turner:

What’s the biggest surprise people often come away from having taken this assessment with?

Laura Gates:

The biggest surprise is that they usually do know what they want to do, they’ve had some story in their head as to why it’s not possible or that it’s too basic or “Doesn’t everybody want to do this?” or letting go of the shoulds and also giving themselves permission to really do the thing that they want to do. And it doesn’t mean quitting your job and moving to Tahiti and opening a surf shack. It can simply be some small tweaks and how you spend your time or where you focus yourself that can have really big differences in people’s lives.

Eddie Turner:

And the Purposeful Initiative is your trademark product, am I correct?

Laura Gates:

Correct.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. And you have another trademark product I noticed when I was doing my research about you on the show.

Laura Gates:

Yeah, that’s the Purpose Culture. So, one of the things that I do is I work with teams. And often I’m brought in when a team is in conflict or they’re having challenges communicating or collaborating. And what I have found is when you go into a team like that and you start working with them, what I’ve realized is that the people issues are often not the root cause. So, we do a root cause analysis and what we find is often the cause of the people conflicts or miscommunications or lack of collaboration stem from process or structural problems such as a lack of clarity of roles and responsibilities or a lack of understanding of what someone’s title even means or it’s a lack of understanding of the strategy and the goals to achieve them. So, I go in through the people door and when I get in through the people door, we start looking at the structural process door and the strategy vision door to see are there areas there that can be resolved to create better people relationships.

Eddie Turner:

It sounds like one assessment is for individuals and the other is for organizations, am I correct?

Laura Gates:

Yeah, these are not assessments. I mean, I do assessments prior to going in to facilitate. These are more frameworks that people can look at to say “Oh, where do we fit in in this spectrum? As a culture, what are the pieces that are missing and what are the pieces that we have in place in terms of what we’re trying to create as a team or as an organization?”

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. So, frameworks for how we figure out what’s getting in our way as an individual or as a team. And once we discover the answer to that, we can then begin to lead with purpose.

Laura Gates:

Correct.

Eddie Turner:

Beautiful.

Laura Gates:

Exactly.

Eddie Turner:

Well I’m talking to Laura Gates. She’s an executive coach and speaker and we’re talking about leading with purpose in chaotic times. We’ll have more with Laura right after this.

Hi. This is Dr. Steven Stein, psychologist and founder of MHS Assessments and you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

We’re back everyone. I’m talking to Laura Gates. Laura is a sought-after executive coach, facilitator, and speaker. We’re talking about leading with purpose in chaotic times.

Laura, you were explaining the framework you use with clients both at an individual level and an organizational level before our break. I’m curious, based off what you said about the Purpose Culture framework that you use and how it unearths different components of the team and their levels of genius, I believe, you used the phrase, tell me how you harness the collective genius of a team.

Laura Gates:

Yeah, that’s a great question. What I have found is that when I’m working with individual clients, coaching executives, we might make great strides in their leadership development and how they lead others, how they communicate, how they collaborate but then we bring them back into this team setting and if the whole team has not been involved in this developmental process, we don’t often see the kind of change we would like to in terms of how that evolves over time. So, what I’ve seen in the work with teams, what we’re trying to do is harness that collective genius which is not really how our society is built. If you think about it, we start out young, being told to get the A grade, competing in sports, told to get ahead, we get ahead to get into the best schools and then we get ahead to get into the best organizations and then we’re told to collaborate. Well, after spending a lifetime of competing against our neighbor, now we’re supposed to share and play nicely together. So, what I have found is that it’s not so much can we be of the best high-performing team which to me just feeds that sense of being better than in competition but how can we really be of service and support those who hire us or those who work with us in the organization. And part of that collective genius is understanding “What is my personal genius? What is my purpose? Where are my gifts and talents? What is it that I’m unique at?” And that way it takes away from “I’m competing with you to be the best at XYZ” to “How do we build on our strengths and shore up our weaknesses.”

Eddie Turner:

That is such a good point that you make. And I just interviewed a guest recently that talked about going from me to we. And I like how you explained that from a different level that, yeah, we have gone our entire life academically and earlier in the corporate careers with just that singular focus and now being told to collaborate which is a buzzword in corporate America these days, it’s really difficult for people. So, tell us how we do that, please, in light of the chaotic times we’re experiencing. We have different organizations under immense pressure due to the fallout from COVID. We have individuals who are experiencing pressure from the fallout of COVID. How do we lead with purpose?

Laura Gates:

This is going to sound strange, Eddie, but I really feel that coming from a place of not necessarily having the answers or having figured this out, none of us could have anticipated what’s been happening to our country in the past year. No amount of strategic planning could have predicted this kind of experience, this giant experiment that we’re all going through called pandemic, work-from-home. The workplace has changed dramatically and, in particular, for people who are caring for children and trying to educate them during this time, it’s changed our education system. There’s going to be many ripple effects from this experience across all industries and organizations and countries and cultures. What I find is that willingness to not have to figure it all out, to not be in control, to not try to go back to the way things were, I often hear people say “If we can only just go back to normal” or “when we go back to normal,” there is no normal. The only way through is to really be looking ahead at what’s emerging. And that has to come from a place of not knowing. That has to come from a place of curiosity.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, yes, very nice. And as you are experiencing this at the individual level and with organizations, do you have a success story that stands out to you the most?

Laura Gates:

I worked with an organization starting about a year ago that was having some collaboration and communication challenges. And this was an organization that offered leadership development in countries around the world, in particular for women’s leadership. And when I went in originally, it was to help them have more effective communication, more effective collaboration. We looked at how the organization was run and how it was structured and we made some structural changes with that working with the senior executive team. And the result was that when COVID hit, they could no longer travel to these locations and deliver this training, they had to decide if they were going to pivot to become a virtual deliverer of this technology, which involved many factors because some of the recipients were not necessarily in locations or able to have technological solutions on their end. So, it both involved the company pivoting but helping their organizations that they served to pivot as well. And I do believe that the result of all the hard work that they did to improve the communication and the collaboration allowed them to make that shift very quickly when many of their constituencies and other organizations around them were not able to make that shift. It really helped them not disrupt the offerings and to maintain the programs that were really impactful powerful programs and were able to keep going despite the changes in the world.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you for sharing that story with us, Laura. That really says a lot about the work that you’re doing with clients and helping people in a very real way lead with purpose in chaotic times.

What’s the most rewarding part of your work as a coach?

Laura Gates:

Such a rewarding job, I have to say. And you know this. You do similar work. Just seeing people evolve and grow and seeing them free themselves from self-limiting thoughts or beliefs that they might have about who they are or what’s possible, that for me is the most exciting is to see people really embrace their purpose, lead from that place, work from that place and watch as the opportunities show up for them as a result.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, yes, I can definitely relate.

I have thoroughly enjoyed talking to you, Laura. What’s the main message you would like to leave our listeners with today?

Laura Gates:

I would say now is the time. Don’t wait for someone else’s permission to do what you came here to do. Don’t wait to have all of the right training to do what you came here to do. Don’t wait for all the right conditions to be perfect. Now is the time. We need you. It’s all hands on deck.

Eddie Turner:

Beautiful. And I always ask on the Keep Leading!® Podcast for quotes, stories, illustrations, whatever you use to help you keep leading, can you share with our audience the best leadership story you’ve ever heard or a great illustration or a quote you have?

Laura Gates:

So, several years ago I was in a training with Angeles Arrien who was a workshop facilitator and she said to me “Laura, why aren’t you stepping into your leadership?” and I said “I’m afraid it will consume me.” And she looked me dead in the eyes and she said “Don’t worry. It will.” And I have to say that after that workshop, I decided, like I just said earlier, to not be afraid, to not wait for permission, to really just embrace what I came here to do. And I must say she was right. It has consumed me but I couldn’t have asked for a better path forward.

Eddie Turner:

Your leadership will consume you. All right. Well, thank you for sharing that with us.

Laura, where can my listeners learn more about you?

Laura Gates:

So, my website is GatesGroupLLC.com. I have a free leadership toolkit on there that I curate personally with all my favorite articles and books and TED Talks. That’s free to access to anyone. I’m also on LinkedIn and I’m on twitter @LauraFG.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. We will put all of that in the show notes so people can connect with you and follow you. And you do have a wonderful website with great resources. And so, I’m going to encourage my listeners to definitely stay connected to you, Laura.

Thank you for being a guest here today explaining how we can lead with purpose in chaotic times on the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Laura Gates:

Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure to be here with you today, Eddie.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you, Laura.

And thank you for listening. That concludes this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It’s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 101 | Leading with Purpose in Chaotic Times | Laura Gates appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 100 | Guest Host Lou Diamond Interviews Host Eddie Turner | Celebrating 100 Episodes!

admin — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 18:51:37 +0000

Guest Host Lou Diamond Interviews Host Eddie Turner
Celebrating 100 Episodes!

Episode Summary
I’m excited about the 100th episode of the Keep Leading!® podcast! Guest Host Lou Diamond interviewed me on Keep Leading LIVE!™ for this milestone episode. Listen in as I share the incredible journey from 1-100!

Keep Leading LIVE!™ (38 Minutes)

Keep Leading LIVE!™

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Guest Host Bio
Lou Diamond is an energetic, humorous, and inspirational speaker, business development strategist, and performance mentor. For over 25 years, he has delivered winning tactics that have increased the results of leading performers from companies all over the world.

He is the CEO of THRIVE, a company focused on helping brands become even more impressive through the power of connecting.

When he isn’t speaking or working on his top-rated Thrive LOUD podcast, he is watching his kids grow up too fast, obsessing over how bad his sports teams are, listening to country music…and playing some ‘not-so-great’ golf.

If you or your organization are trying to find the right way to make the connections essential to achieve your business goals, Lou Diamond is the man to help you make it happen.

Websites
thriveloud.com

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/thriveloud/

Host Bio
Eddie Turner is an in-demand expert. He works as an executive and leadership coach for seasoned and emerging leaders. Eddie delivers keynote speeches and facilitates learning delivery and executive strategy sessions.

Eddie is a Certified Speaking Professional™ (CSP®), a certified trainer, and a master facilitator. He is a facilitator for Harvard Business Publishing and the ATD Knowledge Management and Coaching Certificate programs.

Eddie is also one of 60 contributing subject matter experts to the Talent Development Body of Knowledge—The Definitive Resource for the Talent Development Profession by the Association for Talent Development.

Eddie is the author of the international best-selling book, 140 Simple Messages to Guide Emerging Leaders. He is a C-Suite Network Advisor and Thought Council Member. Eddie is also a C-Suite Radio Host and a national media commentator.

Eddie is an International Certified Coach, an Affiliate Coach with the Institute of Coaching part of McLean/Harvard Medical School, a Professional Certified Coach (PCC) coach with the International Coach Federation, and an official ICF Mentor Coach. Of the more than 37,000 ICF members in 143 countries, Eddie Turner was selected as a 2020 ICF Coach of the Week. Eddie is one of Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 Coaches and is the host of the Keep Leading!® podcast, which earned Apple Podcasts coveted New & Noteworthy designation.

Contact Eddie Turner to work with your leaders to “Accelerate Performance and Drive Impact!”®

Website
www.eddieturnerllc.com

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eddieturner

Subscribe, Share and Review

Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information
www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com

Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

Lou Diamond:

Welcome, everyone, to a special episode of Keep Leading LIVE™ and the Keep Leading!® Podcast, part of the C-Suite Radio Network, dedicated to leadership development and leadership insights. My name is Lou Diamond. Don’t change your channel and don’t worry, you’re in the right place because I’m your guest host for this very special program as this show marks the 100th episode of the Keep Leading!® Podcast. In honor of this historic and momentous occasion, we flip the script and turn the tables of this normal flow of this program because today you the listeners and the viewers on LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube get a chance to hear from an incredibly important and wonderful individual on this planet. He’s passionate about leadership. He believes good leadership can transform businesses, communities, and the world. Keep Leading listeners, I bring you The Leadership Excelerator® and the host of the Keep Leading!® Podcast, Mr. Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

Lou, thank you very much. I knew I picked the right man for the job.

Lou Diamond:

So, I am so glad to be here today for many reasons. One is that as a podcast host, I get to have my own forum but the opportunity to flip the script and host someone else who I admire, respect and someone who really has taken this platform, made it his own, and has elevated it and brought you some of the most unbelievable leaders, which we’ll address in a minute, some of the people have been on this program, to new heights to reach a huge milestone because, trust me, you must appreciate the milestones, great leaders do that, and a hundred episodes, Eddie Turner, you should be so proud of what you’ve accomplished just to date and I can’t wait to dig in deep with you and get you on the other side of the microphone for a change. Are you excited about this milestone you’ve reached?

Eddie Turner:

Absolutely, Lou. And that’s why I wanted to bring in someone else, Lou Diamond, the golden voice, the Diamond voice, because this is a time for me just to kind of sit back and reflect. And if I am doing the talking and doing everything, especially for the live show as we’re doing this, it’s not as easy for me to be in reflective mode. And so, I’m looking forward to this conversation with you and other folks who are joining us. As a matter of fact, before I tell you what I was going to say next, let me share that my friends Eduardo is joining all the way from Argentina.

Lou Diamond:

Eduardo Ricciary.

Eduardo Ricciary:

Hello from Argentina. Excellent. Look at what you’ve got, friends.

Eddie Turner:

I love this guy. He’s amazing. He and I used to work together. It’s been seven, eight years now since he and I worked together but a great guy. Thank you for tuning in all the way from Argentina, Eduardo.And then Dr. James who was actually a guest, I won’t try to remember which number she was, but she and I studied at Harvard together and she was a guest on the show probably somewhere in the 40s or 50-episode range.

Lou Diamond:

The listeners need to know this and the viewers as well. I just wanted to give a quick snapshot of these hundred episodes just to give a list. This is just a spattering of the people that have been on this program. Jeffrey Hayzlett, Connie Fife, Phil M. Jones, Tony Chatman, Dr. Laura Sicola, Simon T. Bailey, Joel Block, Marcia Reynolds, Julia Lewis, Dr. Marshall Goldsmith, Lenora Billings-Harris, JJ Ramberg, Beth Polish, Karl Mecklenburg, both Karen Jacobsens, the doctor and the GPS girl, Shae Brown, Alain Hunkins, Ramon Ray and tens of dozens of others have been on this program. These are some of the best speakers, leaders, coaches, developers out there and you have had a chance to sit on the other side and absorb some of their brilliance and share their brilliance with the world. First of all, even hearing all these things has been amazing.

Eddie Turner:

In fact, this year April was the one-year anniversary of the show. So, I did a special episode, number 60, in April to celebrate the one year and I tried to figure out what 10 people can I highlight. And that’s hard, as you know, because you’ve got a great show, right? By the way, you didn’t mention guest number one. So, I was trying to figure out “Which 10 do I feature?” So, I picked here for the first 60 and then it was hard, again, when I was thinking about, this is 40 episodes that we’re going to, right? Number 94 drops this week. And in fact, early access is available on the Keep Leading!® Podcast website KeepLeadingPodcast.com but the other six are going to trickle out. So, I was trying to figure out “What 10 of the 40 do I highlight?” Is it those names that you said or is it the number one CEO coach, Mark Thompson, the number one startup coach, Alyssa Cohn, is it New York Times bestselling author Chester Elton, the Apostle of Appreciation and the Guru of Gratitude? I was going through my list and I’m like “I don’t know which folks to pull out. There’s just so many people but, as you said, many of them have come from the speaking community or the Marshall Goldsmith 100 Coaches community, a group that I’m so excited to be a part of. So, just some of the best of the best, for sure.

Lou Diamond:

I look at it this way, Eddie, and I’ll get to this towards the end of this conversation. You have a persona, I always joke that you’re like … for those who’ve ever had the opportunity to meet Eddie Turner in person, we’re talking about an individual who is as likable … He’s the big teddy bear. He is the big teddy bear. I mean, I get to him and I feel like I’m getting engulfed whenever I see him and I can’t wait till we get to a world of lack of virtual hugs, we can actually do a nice bro hug and say hello to one another.

Eddie Turner:

The good old days.

Lou Diamond:

But there’s a reason that 99, 100 some odd people have been on this program and that is because any one of these people will step up to connect with you because you’ve done something on this program that I think I want to start our conversation and our questions which I think is just spectacular and that is that you have found how important leadership is to the world, not just a business or a community but literally to changing the world and you wanted to highlight that. So, before you had one of your best episodes of your entire 100, which would be your first, obviously, because I was fortunate enough to be in that spot and I’m honored to be here today, I wanted to ask the question when you came up with the concept of Keep Leading!®, did you have this vision that you would have the ability to tap into such great people. Was that what it was from the very beginning that you knew a lot of people and wanted to bring those folks to your listeners and to an audience?

Eddie Turner:

Oh, absolutely. I started thinking about all the people that I’ve been blessed to meet and develop relationships with. And some, obviously, I know better than others but just the fact that we’ve had that chance meeting or we’ve developed a bond and I’m thinking “I know some pretty awesome people and their views affect me,” all right? As Walter Brown once said you’re the sum of the five people that you associate with. So, I wanted other people to get a chance to know these people and to learn from them as well and I’m really passionate about leadership. I used to be an information technology professional. I revamped my entire career around this one word. And the biggest lesson I learned is, I always say it in the show, it’s not once leader, always a leader. You must continuously work on being a leader. And I don’t remember how I came up with it but one day I was just sitting down as we do when we’re brainstorming things and I’m like “You got to keep leading.” And then that’s how the show became Keep Leading!®.

Lou Diamond:

Let’s talk about sitting on the side of the microphone that I’m on now and that you’re on there. Can you share with the listeners some of the gifts you’ve had and learned in being a podcast host because not many people get to sit in this seat? And I, fortunately, host a bunch of programs and we’re not going to talk about those today because we’re here to talk about this experience that you have. Can you share with the listeners what it’s like to be on that side of the microphone each episode when you connect with these incredible people?

Eddie Turner:

Illuminating is probably the first word that comes to my mind. Illuminating. One of the biggest surprises, there were a couple things I anticipated would come from having a show, the one that I did not anticipate is how much I would learn. And I find myself quoting my guests all the time. And even if I give a presentation and people ask me a question, I will tell them about the guests I interviewed, point them to the show. And on my website, there’s always a listing of that person’s website and all their social media information, their books. It gives me a chance to continue to highlight these people I’m passionate about but I just have an encyclopedia of knowledge now, that part I didn’t count on.

Lou Diamond:

It’s one of the greatest secrets of all. It’s the best classroom I’ve ever gotten a chance to be on is to sit in this seat because …

Eddie Turner:

Really, it’s a classroom. I never thought about it like that.

Lou Diamond:

It is a classroom. I actually, at the end of any episode that I host on my program, I’ve listened to many of your episodes, and what I could tell you whether you’re a listener or whether even the guest that you’re featuring, there’s an engagement that’s happening with that host, your natural charisma is coming up but the questions that you’re asking and pulling from these great people is like the best bright light you can find for that day. I’ll actually find, I just listened, by the way, to the Ramon Ray episode because Ramon was a guest on my show and I love Ramon …

Eddie Turner:

Oh, he’s the best.

Lou Diamond:

And I was smiling at the end of the episode and I want to now flip this to you. At the end of each episode, do you feel almost like “It feels good. It’s got this energy” because I know you, I know when you’re like “Oh man, that was a good one.” Tell me about that vibe that you get after the show is over when you interview a guest. What do you feel, Eddie?

Eddie Turner:

That’s actually an interesting question, Lou. When the episode has concluded, there are some that you go “Wow! That was something special,” right? We think all the episodes are great but there are some that you’re left speechless. When I did the anniversary episode, there’s a couple that I highlighted that I just continue to say that about. I think all of them have been great but when you interview someone like Dave Sanderson, the last passenger off of the flight in the Miracle on the Hudson, I was trembling the entire interview just listening to him tell that story, right? John, I called him Father John, and so now his last name is escaping me, I can’t believe this, episode number 16.

Lou Diamond:

You remember the episode number but the name, it’s totally never going to hit you.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, I can’t believe I’m forgetting John’s name because he was someone who was like a father figure. And in the middle of the episode, I usually do the introductions and then go straight into it, in the middle of the episode, I asked him one question. He sent me into a completely different direction. And usually when that happens, you kind of want to bring it back this way. Some said “Eddie, go with him” and I went with him. And it was a lesson where I felt like I’m capturing history. When that was over, I felt like “Wow! I just opened an encyclopedia.” He was 80 years old. He’d never done a podcast before, hadn’t even listened to a podcast before and he was so excited to have done that with me and I was excited to do it with him. And he heard his episode and he died about six weeks later. And so, that was one that even when I think about it, it still gets me kind of choked up. John Lewis’ name is in my head because of the civil rights figure. I cannot believe I’m forgetting John’s name. It will come to me.

Lou Diamond:

This is what the listeners need to know. As a good host will now start talking …

Eddie Turner:

Perry. John Perry.

Lou Diamond:

John Perry, rest in peace.

Eddie Turner:

I think it’s number 16.

Lou Diamond:

Something that I noticed and I wanted to see if you have as well, when you start off a podcast program, you don’t know where it’s going to go, you don’t know if it’s going to be successful, if you’re going to enjoy it, if it fits into all the things that you do but this is literally custom tailored to what you do. I think the listeners who follow this program know this about Eddie. His passion for leadership comes out and that’s what makes the show so engaging.Now, while as guest number one on the program, you could tell it was an engaging conversation between the two of us. I listened to some of your later episodes, the spottier ones like a number 30, number 50, number 60 and most recently even 90s. Can you tell how much of a better interviewer you’ve become, Mr. Eddie Turner?

Eddie Turner:

I can. And thank you, Valerie. She was just chiming in about the story about John Perry.

Lou Diamond:

Hello, Valerie.

Eddie Turner:

I have found that doing the show, that’s another benefit, good point, that it carries over other to aspects of my life so much so sometimes I have to almost catch myself that I am not in interview mode in other areas but it does carry over, absolutely, because one of the things I do is I’m a moderator on panels. And so, obviously, by training and by profession I’m a coach. And so, I think that the coach is at the heart of everything. And to be able to do it real time in an interview fashion, it just definitely carries over.

Lou Diamond:

I would actually argue, it’s really funny, great coaches are great listeners. Great leaders are great listeners. And it’s kind of a rather ironic thing, I think, because your show is for the listeners to hear great lessons from amazing leaders out there. Yet, the one who’s benefiting the most ironically is you because you sit in that seat where you get to have access to these incredible leaders in this conversation and you get to listen and, as you just said so well, like you let the conversation go into the direction that that guest is taking it. And that’s what really great coaches do to explore new avenues so that the guests can learn something great or in this particular case your clients but the ones who benefit are the listeners because your content is incredible. And that’s what I will say as a listener of your program. You have done a great job of highlighting and getting the show and the platform up and running but when you get into it, when you’re in it, it’s a phenomenal listen because you’re really tapping into some brilliance that your guests have and I’ve noticed this. So, kudos to you from one podcaster to another. Your ability to unearth and draw this stuff out, I hope you’re able to appreciate that.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah, it’s been an amazing journey because, as you know, our friend Dory Clark says the average podcast lasts six to seven episodes or, I think, it was six months or twelve episodes, shorter, it’s short but I thought it was like six months or 12 episodes is the length of the podcast. And so, to reach this milestone has definitely been something that I’m really proud of. And so many people helped me to get here and you were part of that first group that I talked to and I took a little from you, I took a little from Jeff, a little from Julie, a lot of different folks who gave me ideas and then said “Okay, here’s the mash and here’s my version of that.” And it’s such a great honor to be a part of the C-Suite Radio family, of course, where we’ve gotten a lot of support and definitely appreciate that relationship and being with those folks but real quick, I want to just highlight a couple of the major things that have happened. Obviously, the launch. And then something very interesting happens during the launch and that is if you want to become an Amazon bestseller, we know how to get somebody on that list but to get on Apple’s New and Noteworthy list …

Lou Diamond:

You’re sealing my thunder, man!

Eddie Turner:

There’s no algorithm for that. So, hitting that and staying there for eight weeks was incredible. And then later on, of course, making it for the year but then when corona hit, I wasn’t sure, Lou, it’s like there’s this amazing doctor I listened to in our meetings with Dr. Marshall Goldsmith and Dr. Julie … I’m back with babes, that’s one of my Achille’s heels … Dr. Julie, and I use her products all the time but I’m forgetting her last name all of a sudden.

Lou Diamond:

We’ll just call her Dr. Julie for now.

Eddie Turner:

Dr. Julie and I wanted to get her on my show. And so, to get her on the show, as you know, I’m now at a point where my I’m booked out three or four months when I record them. And so, I said “How can I get her on immediately?” because the thing she’s talking about, listeners need to know. And so, that gave birth to the live show that we’re doing right now. So, Keep Leading LIVE™ was born in May as a result of trying to get her information out there. So, now we take these live episodes and we convert them later on to regular audio episodes because 20% of the people listen to this show on their Apple Watch is what the analytics are showing me.

Lou Diamond:

Wow!

Eddie Turner:

I don’t listen to myself when I’m running but other people are. So, I’m excited about that.

Lou Diamond:

This is what I’ll tell the listeners should know this as it relates to the behind the scenes of podcasting. People have no idea that it isn’t just about recording an episode. And I’m sure you’ve learned this from putting together the music, the sponsorship video for those that saw this ahead of time. You have sponsors and promotions which I’m going to give them a plug to in about a minute here to do a really good job as a guest host, those that are helping to promote, bring awareness. You’ve got a time window, that the show’s got to work under a certain timeline. So, what people don’t understand about great podcast programs that have lasted 100 some odd episodes and then some are they’ve figured out a formula of great guests, great content but there is so much work behind it. And my question to you as the guest here, Eddie, would you have ever imagined there’s this much work to put together a podcast show?

Eddie Turner:

No, that’s the other big surprise. We’re in 80 countries now, we’re doing a show every week but I had no idea how much work is involved if you want to do it right.Someone else who I worked with years ago is chiming again. Pablo! Hello, sir!

Lou Diamond:

They’re chanting “Eddie! Eddie! Eddie!” I like that.

Eddie Turner:

I didn’t notice that. Yeah, I just noticed that. Yeah, you’re right. I see the one two three exclamation marks. Pablo is a great guy. He is one of our oil industry leaders here in the Greater Houston area.

Lou Diamond:

Excellent. Hold on, if it’s all right with you because it’s your show but I’m taking over the range here. Can I give a note to our sponsor here?

Eddie Turner:

Yes, these people help me keep going and keep leading. So, please, give a shout out to my sponsors. First of all, this is a chance for them to have a professional orator do the reading. So, I’m going to step out of the way.

Lou Diamond:

I’ll do this one. This is for the Grand Heron International. The key to sustainable leadership lies in the ability to thrive during uncertainty, ambiguity, and change. Grand Heron International brings you the Coaching Assistance Program, giving your employees on-demand coaching to manage through a challenging situation and arrive at a solution. Visit GrandHeronInternational.ca/Podcast to learn more.With that, we have other sponsors. Hold on one second. I’m going to go read this one because you gave me the list of this thing. And should I read all of them?

Eddie Turner:

Yes, absolutely.

Lou Diamond:

Because you’ve got a bunch of them here. And he wanted to read? He’s going to get a read.

Eddie Turner:

They all have paid.

Lou Diamond:

They all have paid. They’re following from the American Express, StandForSmall.com, Microsoft, Goldman Sachs, LaunchWithGS.com, AT&T, Progressive, Wal-Mart, Kroger, TIAA, Dropbox, 4X, Marriott from Marriott Boundless Card, C-Suite Radio, and the C-Suite Network, turning up the volume on business and, obviously, as you all know here, the Keep Leading!® Podcast which is what this program is about. Thank you for all your sponsors, all your folks there.Now, let’s get back to our interview here with the host of the Keep Leading!® Podcast, Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

And we want to thank Sunday for chiming in as well. Thanks for the job you did on that, Lou.

Lou Diamond:

Yes, excellent. And as you can tell for those looking out here, the podcast has evolved. You mentioned it that now here we’re doing a live feed on LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube, it’s everywhere. Hold on. We have sponsors interacting with this. Everyone wishing you a happy 100, Eddie.I have my own messages of people who sent this from my own feed here. You have thank you’s from Drew Tarvin, Jill Schiffelbein, Phil M. Jones, Sylvie De Giusto, Tammy and Corey. All send their best congratulations here on your 100.

Eddie Turner:

Those are all people who I absolutely love.

Lou Diamond:

This is actually one of the biggest challenges that great content creators have. And I think this is something you need to now understand. When you get to 100 episodes, Eddie, because this is a rare audience you’re in here, 100 episodes means that you’ve got something that is working great, has moved on and obviously you already mentioned this, you’ve got a queue for three months out for other guests that are coming on.Let’s do what I do on my program right now because this will be fun. Can you share what’s coming up for Keep Leading!® Podcast and Keep Leading LIVE™ down the road? Not new guests but other ideas because I know you, Eddie, I know that there’s more to this, there’s other things coming up on the horizon as you’re trying to think on the fly here. What other things are coming on the program on your platform so we can share that right now?

Eddie Turner:

Well, this is one of the. I’m always innovating and trying different things and experimenting. So, having a guest host. And you and I did not prepare, people may not know that, you and I have not talked, I sent you a text, I said “Would you host the show?”, you said “Yes,” we did a graphic and here we are, right? So, unscripted. I wanted to be at the water cooler like you and I are catching up. So, this is one thing but here’s the other thing, Lou. I haven’t even told you this.

Lou Diamond:

This is why we asked the question.

Eddie Turner:

So, I normally am definitely ahead and you and I actually really scheduled this for next month, if I want this to come out as an audio episode, I need to do it now.

Lou Diamond:

Timing is always a challenge for anyone who wants to host a podcast program. Anyway, yes.

Eddie Turner:

They have the whole cue done for me but I realized this is the one that still needed to get done. So, this is going to be episode number 100 but right before this one, I just interviewed Bonnie Harvey and Michael Houlihan of Barefoot Wine.

Lou Diamond:

I love them.

Eddie Turner:

So, they’re coming out. We got that done. This is the last live show yeah and this is the last show that’ll be recorded for 90 days, okay? So, I’m taking off all of January because my wife and I are welcoming my first child. I feel like I’m too old for this, Lou. Your kids are grown. All my best friends, their kids are grown but I’m having my first child.

Lou Diamond:

This is the best news on the podcast. This is like a fresh release. At least to me, that’s big. Congratulations, by the way.

Eddie Turner:

So, I want to give that whole month of January to my daughter. So, January, there will be no episodes. You’ll probably see me dumping out a few of the older shows that I’ve run because they’re still evergreen, I love the content but new episodes will start back in February. There’ll be two episodes a month for all of 2021 as I won’t have the energy and bandwidth, so people tell me. It comes with being a new father. So, we’re just going to do two episodes a month. So, those episodes are all recorded. I’ll start back recording in March to go for the balance of the year but the episodes all the way through March are all recorded and can’t wait to share these folks with everybody.

Lou Diamond:

So, the advantage of having a professional podcast host, host your show is that one, you know that you’ll get the things that you had done, done in the time frame you need to. That’s what I would promise, Eddie, and make sure I deliver to all the listeners here but what Eddie doesn’t know is that I’m going to put him on his toes because he loves to be prepared for stuff but I just like throwing him off balance a little bit. So, we’re going to do something that we do on my show which you have never done even though you’ve been a guest, you’re guest number 154 on the Thrive Loud Podcast and that was over three years …

Eddie Turner:

Yeah, what number are you up to now, like 990?

Lou Diamond:

The Thrive Loud Podcast is well into the 500s. At the time of the airing of this, we’re probably at the 555^th.

Eddie Turner:

That’s incredible. We have a triple nickel episode.

Lou Diamond:

That’s another podcast but we’re not here to do that. What we’re going to do here is, Eddie, we’re going to take you down fun street because I think your listeners really would find this valuable because these are things that are important to you and I will end my last bit of fun street on a signature question that you ask on your program.So, permission, Eddie Turner, to go down fun street with me on your program.

Eddie Turner:

Okay.

Lou Diamond:

Okay, a song that you love to hear that pumps you up or gets you motivated? Think of it like the speed round of Family Feud, the thing that comes to your head.

Eddie Turner:

The song that pumps me up doesn’t come to mind but I can tell you the song that always does it for me and puts me in my special place.

Lou Diamond:

Yes.

Eddie Turner:

One of the things you don’t know, I don’t think you know this is that you used to be a saxophonist.

Lou Diamond:

I did know that from Tony Chatman.

Eddie Turner:

We were hanging out at his house, yes.

Lou Diamond:

That’s right.

Eddie Turner:

Tony Chatman, another guest.

Lou Diamond:

Another guest. I wouldn’t leave Tony out. He’d be very mad.

Eddie Turner:

I love Tony. So, yes. And so, I used to do a lot of Kenny G music. So, whenever Going Home comes on, that’s my song. In fact, I was playing that for my wife on her belly. I don’t pull out my horn very much anymore but I pulled it out and it was amazing to have my daughter responding to that. Even she was telling me to shut up because she didn’t like it but she started kicking my wife.

Lou Diamond:

She was kicking to the beat. Let’s go with that. I think she’s going to be doing that.

Eddie Turner:

So, Kenny G, Going Home. That is my song that whenever I hear that song, everything’s going to be all right. It puts me in a different space.

Lou Diamond:

Okay, Eddie. So, a favorite food of yours that’s not a dessert.

Eddie Turner:

Oh, that’s easy. I’m from Chicago and I live in Texas now and I’d say that Texans don’t know what pizza tastes like. I am a pizza snob.

Lou Diamond:

Now, I’m a new yorker and you’re from Chicago.

Eddie Turner:

Oh, yeah, I fight with you guys about it all the time. No, it’s one type of pizza.

Lou Diamond:

Chicago style stays ahead.

Eddie Turner:

You guys fold and all that kind of, I argue with you guys about that all the time.

Lou Diamond:

Neither of us are fully Italian. So, we won’t be able to argue that way. A favorite dessert.

Eddie Turner:

That’s tougher. My wife says I haven’t met a dessert I don’t like. A favorite dessert, I’m going to say ice cream just to keep it simple.

Lou Diamond:

Okay. An activity you wish you did more of.

Eddie Turner:

Exercise.

Lou Diamond:

An activity you wish you did less of.

Eddie Turner:

Work.

Lou Diamond:

If you could snap your fingers, Eddie Turner, and go anywhere in the world, where are you?

Eddie Turner:

Borbor.

Lou Diamond:

Eddie, you’ve had over a hundred guests on the program to date. We know there’s some cued up here. You’ve had some unbelievable leaders out there and you asked each of those guests what their favorite leadership quote, favorite leadership lesson is. So, Eddie, is it fair to stay, at least at this point and 100 episodes in, do you, Eddie Turner, host of Keep Leading!® Podcast and Keep Leading LIVE™, have a favorite leadership quote or a leadership lesson that you would like to share with your listener?

Eddie Turner:

Oh, nice move. I see what you did there, Lou. Well, of course, right behind me is my book. So, most of my favorite quotes are in here. That’s why I wrote this because I quote a lot of people and my favorite quote, I would probably say, in this instance would be my last quote. Let me read my last quote which is, most of them are from other people but this one is mine, “Being an emergent leader does not mean you are not already a leader. You are a leader. You have potential for even greater leadership capacity. Keep developing. Keep growing. Keep emerging.” And now I add “Keep leading” because at the time I hadn’t made the show but, yeah, that was something that really meant a lot to me because so many people, if they don’t have a leadership title, feel they can’t lead. And it was a long time before I realized that my own journey to leadership that I had that capacity and I started leading and didn’t know how to necessarily define what I was doing but it was later on when I went to different programs and studied at different universities that I started to then have the academic language to use for how you do this. And so, that one means a lot to me.

Lou Diamond:

Eddie Turner, we are here 33 some odd minutes in. I did the average. This is about the average time of your episode. And I wanted, first of all, to do something that you should know. One, I am personally honored that you asked me to host this particular episode, get a chance to put you on the other side of the mic even though you tried to jump back over onto this side because I know that’s you. I think every listener to this episode, every viewer on LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube is thrilled that you’ve created this platform. It’s a gift that you’ve given to us. So, we thank you for it. Congratulations on 100 episodes and 100 more, 200 more, whatever number you want to keep going. Keep leading this podcast forward, my friend, because we love it.

Eddie Turner:

I appreciate that. And it just came back to me. I cannot leave out Dr. Julie Rosenberg. Dr. Julie Rosenberg, she is absolutely amazing and I want people to know about her because also, she was responsible for giving me a lot of tips for different exercises you need to do and different supplements to use during COVID to boost your own natural immunity. So, I want folks to check out her page on the Keep Leading!® Podcast website.And then also Sonya Ware who’s an amazing woman, one of our coaching leaders here in the Houston community. She is sending her hello to me and I appreciate her so much.

And from Northwestern University, Anne Marie.

Lou Diamond:

Anne-Marie, she was a guest on your show. Anne-Marie Heidingsfelder. Yes? No?

Eddie Turner:

No, Anne Marie is in our coaching community as well. I have to remember where everybody’s from and she’s from the east coast.

Lou Diamond:

Eddie, this is the problem that you have when you have 100 episodes. You’ve got too many guests, you have so many fans, you have so many people tapping in and people who are incredibly proud. And I just hope that you can appreciate these milestones, which I think you do. And if you ever want to just sit back and step back, you could say “Wow! I got Lou Diamond to host my 100th episode. It must be a big deal.”I also want to let you know that I don’t usually get dressed up that much anymore because, like many of us, we don’t have to go out too much. I put on the dates for you. I saw 100. I was going to even put a party hat on.

Eddie Turner:

I appreciate that, Lou. You look good, man. You look good.

Lou Diamond:

I have to keep up with you, man. I may lead you in podcast episode host but as it relates to looking good, Eddie Turner owns that. And Eddie Turner, soon to be papa Turner. I like that. Can I call you papa? Because that’s exciting news and seriously, you enjoy every minute of that, enjoy that bit of joy. I’m glad you’re taking time off to be the dad that you want to be in that moment. And trust me, maybe you could pass the baton when you get to episode 1000th off to the little one and make them do voiceovers. Just to let you know, some of my kids have done voiceovers for my shows, if you listen really carefully. It’s an opportunity.

Eddie Turner:

See? That’s the advantage of having gotten your children of age and you can do those things. I’m just starting this. I’m going to be trying to figure everything out. I saw someone the other day. I’ve never felt more incompetent in my life. So, I’m like trying to figure stuff out.

Lou Diamond:

You just wait. You just wait.

Eddie Turner:

My wife has been reading books and watching videos and she’s like “No, we got to do this now because you can’t do classes right now with COVID, right? Well, you can do on zoom but not quite the same. So, we’re doing all these little things to get ready but looking forward to really seeing if I can keep leading as a parent.

Lou Diamond:

Well, we know you will. And, I think, my heart and all the listeners and viewers out there, congratulations, continued success on Keep Leading!® Podcast and Keep Leading LIVE™ and this great platform that you put together. It’s inspirational, it’s motivational and it is truly what you are all about. and I know that all the listeners out there will continue to listen for the next several hundred episodes more to great content that you put forward. So, thank you, Mr. Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

And thank you, Lou.

Lou Diamond:

And hold on, I’m going to sign off your show. Remember that leadership is an activity. It’s action. We must be a leader at our core. So, whatever you do … Eddie, take us out here … keep leading.

Eddie Turner:

Always keep bleeding.Thanks everybody. Thanks, Lou. You’re the best.

And as we conclude, Marianne Shank, thank you for saying all the way from … I always butcher it. I always want to say Sweden. It’s not Sweden.

Lou Diamond:

Norway?

Eddie Turner:

Not Norway.

Lou Diamond:

Denmark?

Eddie Turner:

It’s Switzerland. I do that every time.

Lou Diamond:

It’s all beautiful people.

Eddie Turner:

She’s supporting me in every show when I do the live ones. Thank you, Marianne. I owe you. Thank you.

Lou Diamond:

Great. Got them coming in from all different forums. They came in from Facebook, from LinkedIn, from YouTube. You’re a man of many platforms. Look at you. It’s excellent.

Eddie Turner:

All right, we’ll sign it off. Thanks so much.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 100 | Guest Host Lou Diamond Interviews Host Eddie Turner | Celebrating 100 Episodes! appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 099 | The CEO Mindset | Daniel Ramsey

admin — Mon, 07 Dec 2020 08:25:46 +0000

Daniel Ramsey
CEO and Co-Founder of MyOutDesk.com
The CEO Mindset

Episode Summary
What is the CEO mindset? Listen to my interview with Daniel Ramsey, CEO of MyOutDesk.com, to learn the answer and why everyone in the organization—not just the CEO, needs the CEO mindset!

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
He is the founder & CEO of MyOutDesk, the largest and highest-rated Virtual Assistant company in the marketplace with over 500 5-star reviews and over 13 years of experience, serving more than 6000 clients across industries. Daniel is a long-time licensed real estate broker, mortgage broker, and general contractor who has sold thousands of homes and made millions in commissions. He built real estate’s #1 staffing company. Back in 2008, he was inspired by his time-management struggles to find a better way to help agents leverage their time & energy and created MyOutDesk to provide a trusted, reliable solution to the office administration, marketing & prospecting tasks that every business owner has – but most lack the time to focus on. In 13 years with MyOutDesk, Daniel has helped thousands of clients scale their businesses and grow profitability.

Website
https://www.myoutdesk.com/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/company/my-outdesk/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dramseyinc/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/myoutdesk

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/MyOutDesk.LLC/

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/myoutdesk/

Leadership Quote
“If you don’t have an assistant, then you are one.”

Get Your Copy of Daniel’s Book!
https://www.myoutdesk.com/scale/

Subscribe, Share and Review

Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information
www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com

Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Hello, everyone! Welcome to Keep Leading!® Podcast, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive and leadership coaching, facilitation, and professional speaking.

In my line of work, I get a chance to interact with a lot of people in the C-suite, that is those that have titles that start with C – CEO, CFO, COO, etc. There are about 30 of those C-x titles these days. There used to only be three. Today, I want to focus on the CEO specifically. I want to focus on the CEO mindset, what is it and how can you and I benefit from having that mindset even if we’re not a CEO. So, who better to have that discussion with than someone who is a CEO?

I’ve invited an amazing man. I’ve invited the Founder and CEO of MyOutDesk. I’ve invited Daniel Ramsey. Daniel started this amazing organization and it is the largest and highest rated virtual assistant company in the marketplace. And he has more than 13 years of experience serving more than 6,000 clients across industries.

So, welcome, Daniel Ramsey, to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Daniel Ramsey:

Hey, Eddie. Thank you so much for having me.

Eddie Turner:

Man, I tell you, you’re sounding smooth over there and I love that microphone you’re using.

Daniel Ramsey:

Yeah, it’s a big one, man. I like it too. It picks up all the noise that’s right in front of it but not all the cars and kids and dogs barking in the background.

Eddie Turner:

I love it. Excellent. You sound like a podcaster rather than the CEO.

Daniel Ramsey:

Well, today’s world, I think, you have to be both and I think you know that. And the reality is the world has shifted. We’re 100% a digital company. We’re 100% a virtual company now. I think in this day and age, you almost have to make that transition.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah, some haven’t been able to do that though, Daniel. So, tell me a little bit more about you and your organization and what you do.

Daniel Ramsey:

Yeah, I got started in this world because I was an entrepreneur and built a very successful real estate development company. We would buy properties, rehab them, fix them, and sell them. And then at some point, you start buying duplexes and then fourplexes and then you start buying land and you develop them. And I was building this business of land development and I found myself getting married, you and I talked about that, we’re both in that world of family, and found myself married. And on my honeymoon in Guatemala, working on my honeymoon. We were at a Francis Ford Coppola resort and it’s overlooking this amazing lake in the jungles, there’s monkeys, we’re in a bungalow. So, literally, we are living in the trees in the rainforest for seven days. And I found myself one night working at 1 in the morning. The bartender took my phone and started making fun of me in Spanish – “Dumb white guy. What’s wrong with him? Beautiful bride back in his room. Doesn’t he know money is not the only important thing in the world?” And he snapped a photo of me and that moment changed my entire career. I knew that I had to change how my businesses ran. I knew I had to change how I led. I knew that if I wanted to build a business that I own versus the business owning me, I had to change my entire focus. And that really started me on the path of hiring a lot of people and eventually I hired my first virtual assistant and grew that. And now we’ve served, like you said in the intro, more than 6,000 customers over 13 years, helping them find leverage in their own business.

Eddie Turner:

Isn’t that something? Number one, the fact that you were working on your honeymoon in Guatemala. Number two, how that became the genesis of an amazing business career.

Daniel Ramsey:

Yeah. You know what’s funny is I always wanted to be an entrepreneur and I always wanted to own my own. Business I was that one kid in the back of the bus selling candy bars. And I just got hooked early on sales and leadership and really building business. The problem is you go to, and I went to business school, you go to business school and they teach you about Marketing, they teach you about Sales, they teach you about Operations but they don’t actually teach you how to be a leader, they don’t teach you how to build a business. They teach you these concepts that once strung together actually makes sense and once you have some experience kind of makes sense but when you’re brand-new in business, you’re really kind of struggling to survive, struggling to figure out where you are in the world. That was certainly me in my first 10, 15 years of being a business owner.

Eddie Turner:

That’s so true, Daniel. I happen to be on staff as a leadership coach and executive coach at a couple of higher education institutions in the MBA programs and that is one of the things I’m seeing that really makes a difference because they don’t necessarily get that training in the classroom. So, it’s when they uniquely have a program tailored to themselves with the help of a leadership or executive coach that people can make that shift.

So, congratulations on being able to have this epiphany on your honeymoon and, by the way, having a wonderful wife who allowed you to live to tell the story.

Daniel Ramsey:

She laughs every time she hears it because she’s like “I was sleeping. I didn’t know what was happening.” I’m really lucky to have a wife who’s supportive. When you make this transition from an entrepreneur to a CEO and from a small business to a large business, that transition can be very painful. I have a lot of friends that have gone through really rough times in their lives making that transition because it’s like going to business school, getting your doctorate and also learning Latin all at once, making that transition from a small business to a large. So, yeah, I’m very fortunate in my wife choice.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. So, tell us what is the CEO Mindset.

Daniel Ramsey:

Here’s how this happened and this is kind of a unique but very timely story. COVID hit, everybody knows that the world shifted and it shifted very fast. In our situation, we’re in California, in early March, we knew that literally our governor was going to shut down our entire business. What I was concerned about was how was that going to affect our clients’, our customers’ business, what would they be doing. We’d made the shift to a fully virtual company but we were really, really, really concerned that many of our clients hadn’t and they didn’t know what they needed to do and they didn’t know how to create digital content, get it out there in the world. So, the CEO Mindset is simply adding value to your and then … I literally put dot-dot-dot there because sometimes as a CEO, you’re adding value to your customers, sometimes you’re adding value to your vendors, sometimes you’re adding value literally to your employees who report to you, sometimes you’re adding value to your leadership team but the reality is once you’ve decided that you’re going to take that title as a CEO, everything shifts. You’re in service of others. And in our world, that means adding value to your people. And so, this is what we did during the COVID pandemic is figure out exactly who needed our support, what did they need absolutely right now and then we worked like hell to make sure that we were able to provide or add that value.

Eddie Turner:

Now, that is a very interesting definition. And when I think about a CEO and your definition of adding value to your dot-dot-dot, often times the only group of people that come to mind or the first would be your shareholders, adding value to your shareholders. So, I like your positioning that it can be your people, it can be a lot of other people against the dot-dot-dot, the ellipses. I like that.

Daniel Ramsey:

Well, we don’t exclude the shareholders. We’re always, always cognizant of who is our boss, right? I mean, ultimately, you’re reporting to a board and that board is reporting and ultimately responsible to shareholders but they’re typically not the ones who are writing the checks, they’re not the ones who are exchanging dollars. The reality is people, and this is something that we spent a lot of time or I personally spent a lot of time teaching my organization, people exchange dollars for value. And so, absolutely, as a CEO, you’ve got people pulling at you in multiple directions you can go in but when you’re very hyper-focused on who’s paying the bill, meaning who’s paying the salaries, who’s adding value to the business, that makes it a very clear directive of where you’re going to put your attention and focus in that moment.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah, I was making the point not that you ignore the shareholders but that you’ve actually expanded the lens of which you look at who you’re going to add the value to.

Daniel Ramsey:

Look, the most important people are the people who are in service to your customers and service to your vendors. And another weird space, and this is something about our culture, one of our core values is to have a servant’s heart, just to look for people to serve and in the end, when you’re serving the right people for the right reason, then things always typically work out. And if that focus is put in the right direction and you’re adding value to others and there’s a fair exchange of value, typically, companies are giving something of value and customers are exchanging dollars in revenue, then all is going to work out in the end.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. And that raises the question do I have to be a CEO to have a CEO mindset.

Daniel Ramsey:

I love that. There’s a lot of leadership that comes from every corner of the organization. One of my favorite stories is we went through a period a couple years ago where our accounting just was not keeping pace with our customers’ billing. There were some late payers out there. And so, I offered a challenge to our accounting people. I said “Hey, look, you actually have to interact with our customers. If they’re having challenges paying their bills, we need to know why, we need to know if it’s a reasonable reason and we need to interact with them.” And so, I challenged our accounting team which is a small team, there’s only like seven or eight of us in that team, and I challenged them to actually get on the phone within 24 hours of a missed bill. And 24 hours of a missed bill for a company is hyper aggressive. And they’re all experienced, they come from other companies where they were in the Bookkeeping or Accounting department or the Finance department. And so, where typical timeframes for billing is Net-30, Net-60, Net-90, sometimes people will pay over long term. So, I challenged our staff to go after those bills the moment they became late like within 24 hours, have a conversation. And I didn’t know what would happen. Of course, over time, the numbers got better because what you focus on actually improves; what you measure, it really improves; and what’s reported up, really, really improves, right? This is part of leadership but wildly enough, I got feedback from one of our just standard accountants n the team, her name was Jamie and we’re doing kind of our company circle where we’re sitting down and getting feedback and giving feedback and it was at a company event and she got on the mic and she said “A year ago when Daniel asked me to call our customers within 24 hours, my heart almost jumped out of my body. I was nervous and scared. I’d never interacted with the customers before. They’d sent emails and you know done the standard stuff but never within 24 hours” but here’s what she said which was wild – “It’s been really good for me to understand the pulse of our customers. Some of the conversations I’ve been able to have with our customers have been massively valuable for me personally as I develop here and I’ve learned a lot about our business” because guess what, she’s in there having conversations with our customers. So, yeah, the wildness is sometimes you’re adding value as a CEO to different areas of your organization and asking them to do stuff in service of the business that they would not normally do. And so, that’s just one small story of where our core value of a servant’s heart and really looking for ways to improve has really impacted the business.

Eddie Turner:

That’s a great story. And really nice to hear how even at the CEO level, part of that mindset is having a servant’s heart. And that is something that we’re seeing surface in 21st century leadership that wasn’t necessarily part of the leadership models of the past. So, very nice.

I’m talking to Daniel Ramsey. He’s the founder and CEO of MyOutDesk and we’re talking about the CEO Mindset. We’ll have more with Daniel Ramsey right after this.

This is Valda Ford. I am the Chief Executive Officer of ValdaFord.com and you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

All right, everyone. We’re back. I’m talking about the CEO Mindset and I’m talking about it with Daniel Ramsey, the Founder and CEO of MyOutDesk.

Daniel, before the break, we were talking about adding value to your dot-dot-dot. And in that ellipses, you talked about how that can be the shareholders, that can be our people, it can be anyone who we need to add value to and having a servant’s heart. Do you have some other practical examples of how that’s being done by you and your organization today?

Daniel Ramsey:

Thanks, Eddie, for that question. Here’s the reality. When the pandemic hit, most states shut down everything. In New York, wildly enough, one of our customers called us and told us “Hey, we are not allowed to make prospecting calls to our customers anymore. We literally are not allowed to call customers.” So, in March and in April, we had to come up with a strategy and that strategy was What do I say during a pandemic? As a sales person, what do I say?” And we gave that strategy out to all of our customers across the country that were suffering from the shutdown. And really, ultimately, we said “Hey, just be human. Here’s the world. You’re going to be human. You’re going to call them and see if you need any help. We’re going to call them and see if they need anything delivered. We’re going to call them and see if they have enough food, if they have enough toilet paper.” Wildly enough, we had customers delivering toilet paper when you couldn’t get any.

Eddie Turner:

Isn’t that something?

Daniel Ramsey:

And that’s the idea, right?

Eddie Turner:

Talk about a servant’s heart, huh!

Daniel Ramsey:

Right. Well, here’s the point. Most businesses were paralyzed in inaction. They were doing nothing because they didn’t know what to do. And there’s nothing wrong with that. And if you found yourself in that space, that’s okay. I think if you start thinking about being a CEO and what the CEO Mindset is, how can I serve in this moment. And so, we start off by just saying “Hey, what do you say to customers?” So, that was step one.

Step two – we started realizing that a lot of our people needed support going digital, meaning they didn’t have the tools, they didn’t have the technology that they needed, they didn’t know how to work from home remotely, they might not have had a mic or the right camera or the right equipment to do remote work, forget the whole concept of selling remotely. So, we spent a lot of time helping people figure out how to go remote and how to sell remotely via Zoom or some other meeting format. And then when PPP was around, we literally, I’m telling you, Eddie, I think, I was the first person to do live webinars out there explaining how to use the PPP money.

Eddie Turner:

And for those of our audience members who may not know what those acronyms stand for, can you explain?

Daniel Ramsey:

Oh yeah, for sure. The PPP was the government program during the pandemic that businesses could get loans from. So, if you owned a business or you ran a business and you were being affected by the pandemic, the government put out two different loan programs. The challenge is they put out the programs without any guidance. So, business owners who were having massive disruption in their business and CEOs and everybody who was in a leadership role, we had the information, we just didn’t know how to use it. And so, myself, we had our attorney, we had our CPA, and we had multiple stakeholders at our company MyOutDesk literally put over a thousand people through webinar series so that they could figure out how to get their piece of the government loans. And back then, everybody was concerned that their bank wasn’t going to take it, that the government wasn’t going to approve it. Everybody was just nervous. And so, we did the best we could and helped explain all the different programs, how they could take advantage of them, what the situations were, everything to do with a government program which is convoluted complex. And by the way, they kept dripping out information late and then it was wrong and they changed it. And so, literally, we took several thousand of our customers, literally, our direct customers through a How to Get the Government Loan webinar series. And then we interacted on a one-on-one basis with each of them to help them complete their applications. By the way, we make no money doing this, Eddie, and our job is not financial advisors. There were no loan fees paid to us but that’s the point of the CEO Mindset is really how can I serve and what value could we add. I happen to have those connections that allowed those webinars to move forward. And because we were able to educate and really kind of walk our people through the step-by-step process, a lot of people didn’t have that deep anxiety, a lot of our customers didn’t have that deep anxiety that the whole nation was feeling and still even to this day, we all have our moments.

Eddie Turner:

So, you used it to help out business owners who wanted to secure the Paycheck Protection Plan and you sorted things out for them and didn’t do it at a cost but you did it because using the CEO Mindset, you wanted to employ a servant’s heart.

Daniel Ramsey:

Well, here’s the thing. I knew that this wasn’t a time for my team. And we have a large Sales team, a large Marketing team but this was not a time for our team to go out there and try to sell our services. We provide virtual assistants to small and medium-sized businesses. We’ve served some of the largest billion-dollar companies down to the brand-new entrepreneur who just started yesterday. And in March, nobody was saying “Daniel, I need help.” Everybody was saying “Daniel, I’m not sure if I’m going to have a business next month.” So, this wasn’t the time for us to push on sales, it wasn’t the time for us to go after and break into new markets but it was the time to help our customers and our potential customers and the people inside of our network survive during this crazy time. In fact, our whole series during that time was Survive and Thrive. And so, in the Thrive section we talked about how to make the digital transition, how to do digital marketing, what does it look like to start a blog, to redo your website, to start looking at online sources of business versus there’s no events, there’s no conferences. So, we were helping people put on live virtual events and we have been over the last couple of months because that’s what’s needed in the industry right now.

Eddie Turner:

Okay. Well, you did that and now things have changed. If a person has decided they want to start their own business, you mentioned you’ve handled billion-dollar organizations and new entrepreneurs, so if a person wants to start their own business right now, they’re not that billion-dollar organization, explain the reason, the value of securing a virtual assistant.

Daniel Ramsey:

Yeah, I love it. Here’s the reality. If you introduce me to any leader anywhere in the world, with the right amount of time, they could accomplish anything. And that’s the reality that we all have, right?” It’s a “we can do it” society. And leadership, that is just true day in and day out. And so, in our world, we literally help customers in four different ways. We help them buy back their time in their admin work, in their marketing work, in their prospecting work and their project coordination or customer service work. So, for instance, many of our clients will come to us and say “You know, I’m working 12 hours a week” or “12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Daniel, I’m working on my vacations and honeymoons.” I’m like “I know that. I know that world.” And they just need some more time in their world. And so, we help them organize and hire virtual assistants to help free some of their day or week or month up so they can go hit those sales numbers or they can go hit those operational kinds of milestones within their business. And really, we’re a leverage company. Think of us as a remote global staffing company and we can help you in those four areas.

Eddie Turner:

So, by freeing up the CEO’s time, they can free up their mind and therefore be more productive in their business.

Daniel Ramsey:

Oh, my goodness! One of my favorite stories is we help the CEO of a Midas franchise chain. Literally, they have 13 locations. They’re in contract right now for two more. They own multiple real estate large developments and they own these franchises and they do really, really well. And the CEO, when we first started talking, we just started talking “Well, what do you need?” and at first, he just thought “Well, I need somebody to help us save money at all of our stores.” We went through a process and it turns out that wasn’t really that important. Then they needed help with systems and it turns out his brother is a tech genius and his brother was like “No, I kind of got that.” Well, what we landed on, what he really needed was more time back. And so, we hired him a personal assistant. That personal assistant has removed him from … they have a Slack channel where all of his office managers and his property managers could get a hold of him. They pulled him out of that. Now, his virtual assistant handles all of his schedules, all of his email, all of his communication with different offices and just streamlined his entire day. The other day, his name is Brian, Brian sends me a picture of a barn door. I’m like “What is this, Brian?” And he sends me this picture and he’s like “For six months, my barn door had sat on the ground because I didn’t have time to order a new one. I gave the dimensions and what I needed to my virtual assistant and within two hours she had a new barn door purchased for my property.” And so, these are the little things that we help leaders and CEOs do is realize only focus on the stuff that only you can do and the rest you can delegate down.

Eddie Turner:

Yeah. And I suspect that if you experience what I experience in my work as a virtual facilitator and an in-person facilitator, there were some events that people said “Oh, this could never be done online, has to be face to face.” Well, COVID taught folks that all of that was not true. And that was something I had been beating the drama on for years and I had successfully helped organizations move things virtual. Well, I suspect that many of the clients who were saying “Nope, I only can have an assistant who’s there, who I see all the time,” I suspect that COVID has perhaps changed your viewpoint and probably helped your business.

Daniel Ramsey:

Yeah, we’ve gone through some incredible growth numbers over the last couple of months. We’re 55% above last year’s numbers in COVID. And being a virtual company, meaning a fully remote virtual company, we’ve really helped our customers also figure out how to be a fully remote virtual company and find leverage in ways they just never could have imagined. And I think, like you’ve discovered, many people, having gone through COVID, now accept this as the new reality. Companies like Facebook and multiple other companies are just not coming back to the office. And I think we’re all, as a country, going to be better off for that.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed. Wow! I have really enjoyed talking to you, Daniel, and learning more about your viewpoint on the CEO Mindset and I love hearing how your work with virtual assistants and empowering CEOs to take back more of their time and work with distributed teams across the globe is making such a difference.

What’s the overarching message you’d like to leave our listeners with?

Daniel Ramsey:

Well, you nailed it, Eddie. It’s time. Here’s the thing. Everything in the world is easier when you have more time. More time, it’s the only resource that you can’t sell, you can’t buy more of, you have a finite amount and it, at some point, gets exhausted. And so, we consistently are helping CEOs, and I’m not talking about … The other day I sat down with a CEO who literally has 5,000 employees 300 million dollars in revenue and literally, I walked him through our process and helped him discover his next best three steps. And literally, we did that in a 45-minute consult where we went through “Who’s on your team? What are the big challenges? What roadblocks are standing in your way?” and literally, we did that all in 45 minutes and I helped him discover his steps for 2021. And I would just invite your audience to do the same thing. Jump on our website MyOutDesk.com, come check us out. We’d love to serve and help you find some leverage and buy back some of your time.

Eddie Turner:

Outstanding. We’re going to put your information in the show notes so that folks can reach out to connect with you and your organization across all the social media channels.

Thank you for being a guest on the Keep Leading!® Podcast and helping us learn more about the CEO Mindset so that we can keep leading.

Daniel Ramsey:

Thank you, Eddie, for having me.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 099 | The CEO Mindset | Daniel Ramsey appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 098 | Building Leadership Systems in Your Life | Linus Okorie

admin — Mon, 07 Dec 2020 08:05:25 +0000

Linus Okorie
African Leading Leadership Coach and Speaker
Building Leadership Systems in Your Life

Episode Summary
I enjoyed my spirited conversation on Keep Leading LIVE!™ with Linus Okorie, a leadership expert who runs Nigeria’s most comprehensive leadership development center. Listen to this episode to learn about the importance of having systems in your life to build leadership capacity.

Keep Leading LIVE!™ (43 Minutes)

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Bio
Linus Okorie ran for Governor of Imo State at the age of 44. He spent 25 years directly impacting more than 300,000 people. Through television, he has impacted millions. This impact was achieved through Guardians of the Nation International (GOTNI), a leadership development organization founded in 1996 while Mr. Okorie was still a teenager. GOTNI has hosted hundreds of leadership conferences and roundtables across Nigeria and the United States. They have set up a GOTNI Leadership Development Centre committed to Executive Education and is Nigeria’s most comprehensive Leadership Centre.

Website
https://gotni.africa/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/linus-okorie-a2b686149/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/linusokorie1

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/linus.okorie

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/_linusokorie/

Leadership Quote
Leadership capital is a sought-after value

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www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Hello, everyone! Welcome to Keep Leading LIVE™. Keep Leading LIVE™, like the Keep Leading!® Podcast, is dedicated to leadership development and insights. I’m your host Eddie Turner. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact and I do that primarily through the power of executive and leadership coaching, facilitation and professional speaking.

Today, we are live on LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube. So, since we are live, I want to let you know to join our conversation with my guest and myself. You will be able to tell us where you’re from, ask any questions that you have and any other comments that you may want to make. Ask any questions that you have and we look forward to engaging you for the next 30 minutes.

My guest is going to be Linus Okorie. So, if you’re not already following Linus Okorie online, I’ll give an introduction here in a second, you want to follow Linus Okorie. And, obviously, you can follow me at AskEddieTurner.com. And if you would like to get your friends involved in this conversation, hit the share button on whatever platform you’re using and then it will put it on your timeline so they can join us as well. If you like what you’re hearing, we invite you to go ahead and hit the like button to let us know that you like what you’re hearing.

Today, we’re going to talk about building leadership systems in your life. We’ll talk about business as well but, specifically, we want to also make sure we can put that in our lives because leadership is something that we are yearning for in every aspect around the world in different facets. And so, we’re going to talk about that today with a premier leadership expert.

We’re going to talk to one of Africa’s leading leadership coaches. He’s the founder of the GOTNI Leadership Development Center and he is a speaker and author. You’re looking at him in the office that I envy. I want that office.

Mr. Linus Okorie, welcome to Keep Leading LIVE™.

Linus Okorie:

Absolutely great to be here and great to connect with my friend, the great Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

Tell us about your background and all the things you’ve accomplished. Just give us a little history.

Linus Okorie:

Okay, great. So, 25 years ago, when I started a great vision called GOTNI Leadership Series or Guardians of the Nation International, I just wanted to create a sound leadership capital for the continent of Africa. I realized that there has been a huge deficit in leadership capital. As a result of that, things were going wrong in leadership development in the entire continent. So, I just wanted to make a difference. So, I created GOTNI and it’s been 25 years after. So, we are in the business of developing leadership capital. Hundreds of thousands of young people across the continent have benefited from our programs directly and millions through their televisions. So, the whole idea is that we have officially set up an institution that will provide executive leadership education for those in political leadership as well as those in the business leadership in the West African hub. And we hope that the GOTNI Leadership Center is continuing providing Africa with the best of the best of leadership opportunities. For me, that is the best way to go.

Eddie Turner:

That is fantastic. And I understand that you’ve directly impacted over 300,000 people through your work and millions, as you said, through television.

Well, fantastic. I’m looking forward to talking with you and learning more. I want to welcome to our program Lisa. Lisa is one of the top coaches in Houston and I say that because she just completed her training at one of the top institutions and she’s just a phenomenal leader here. And so, Lisa, thank you for tuning in and thank you for letting us know that you are here. Just a wonderful person. So, glad to have Lisa as well as Ivania all the way from Colombia. So, excellent. Ivania, thank you for joining from Colombia. Just love having people from around the world tuning in to our live program. Absolutely fantastic.

So, Linus, you told us a little bit about your background. Tell our listeners who may not know how you and I met.

Linus Okorie:

Very interesting. I went to Harvard, Kennedy School of Government precisely. In my class, the act and practice of leadership, as a leadership coach from Africa, one of the things I’ve always looked forward to is every year I do about three courses overseas. I mean, I travel and I go to the best of the best institutions and sit with some of the best teachers in the world. And this particular time I was at Boston, Monmouth University and right there in my class Act and Practice of Leadership, I met this great man in class, oh my God! And that’s how we met. We met at Harvard.

Eddie Turner:

We met at Harvard. We did the Harvard Kennedy School program together.

Linus Okorie:

Absolutely. That’s where we met. And it was a long period of connecting and networking and talking about the future and what we can do together. And I’m so excited that Eddie Turner right now is playing a major role in the GOTNI Leadership Center as a faculty member.

Eddie Turner:

I didn’t know I was an official faculty member now. Okay, that’s cool. Well, I’ve enjoyed working with you all and the amazing leaders that you’re producing there at the GOTNI Leadership. So, just absolutely fantastic. And I want to talk about that a little bit more in just a second.

Let me say hello to someone else I met at Harvard. A couple years after you and I studied, I went back and I met the amazing Marianne Shank and she is one of the top leaders in Switzerland and she’s in the finest world there in Switzerland. So, thank you. We truly have an international audience tuning in today. We’ve got Colombia, we’ve got Switzerland, you’re coming from Nigeria. And now, let’s bring it back to Cincinnati, Ohio. Kendall Wright has joined us. Kendall Wright is an amazing leader. So, Kendall, we appreciate having you tune in with us as well. Absolutely wonderful.

Now, at the GOTNI Center, you have had some incredible leaders come through there, the best of the best and it’s been quite impressive. Tell us who this is.

Linus Okorie:

Oh, my God, this is the former president of Republic of Ghana, President John Kufuor. Interestingly, when we were about the business of setting up the GOTNI Leadership Center, we went to visit him in Ghana to officially form a partnership with him and listen to his wisdom on how we can introduce political leadership development process in Ghana. And he was fantastic. I mean, he’s been very supportive of that process. So, wow! Interesting, yes.

Eddie Turner:

The president of Ghana.

Then tell me about these folks.

Linus Okorie:

Oh, my God. This is the only John Maxwell. I mean, sometime in November, I was all the way in London where we went to this exchange program. I mean, 17,500 dollars to spend quality time with his team, I mean, leadership from all over the world. And very interestingly, the former prime minister of Britain, Tony Blair, was also present and it was a huge networking opportunity to share leadership opportunities and how leaders can grow. And I’m glad that all of these connections are adding value to the GOTNI Leadership Center in Abuja at the moment.

Eddie Turner:

Yes.

Linus Okorie:

Oh, by God! This is Brian Tracy.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, Brian Tracy.

Linus Okorie:

Just about two days ago, Brian Tracy was live. We trained Development Bank of Nigeria. It’s one of the most interesting banks in Nigeria. And their top management, their CEO and the rest of them and Brian Tracy was live on my invitation to the Leadership Center as a faculty and the head of faculty to inspire the audience and everything but I went all the way to San Diego to spend time with Brian Tracy in November and it was amazing. And today, he’s a faculty at the GOTNI Leadership Center.

Eddie Turner:

Oh wow! So, I’m in good company then. Okay, great. So, you’ve had all these dignitaries and these great leaders come through and then every now and then you descend and you hang out with somebody like this.

Linus Okorie:

This is amazing.

Eddie Turner:

Now, let me ask you this though. What were we talking about here?

Linus Okorie:

We were talking about Leadership Development. We were talking about how we can network and viewed leadership capital for our continent. Oh, my God! Look at you! Where did you get all this?

Eddie Turner:

All right, one last photo down memory lane. This is just some of the other great people who we studied with there who are all accomplishing some great things in different parts of the world. And that was one of the things that I loved about when we think about leadership systems is the fact that that program had, what was it, 60 of us, 65 of us, more than half came from other parts of the world, so from all over the world. It was beautiful.

Linus Okorie:

Only two from Africa, [Inaudible] from Morocco and myself.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, yes it was absolutely beautiful. I love it.

Linus Okorie:

The energy is something else.

Eddie Turner:

The energy is absolutely something else. So, I had to show those because when I saw those, I was looking at your page, looking at some of the people who come through the center, I wanted to show that just to say that not only are you building the best leaders in Africa but you’re pulling from people around the world to do that. And so, you are making sure that people who are being trained in the GOTNI Center and developed as leaders truly bring that international thought leadership with them. And so, kudos to you.

Linus Okorie:

Absolutely, absolutely. And you know the world is a global village. Distance is dead.

Eddie Turner:

Especially now in the time of COVID, right?

Linus Okorie:

Absolutely. So, if distance is dead, what it means is that our competition is no longer local.

Eddie Turner:

Yes.

Linus Okorie:

The competition is international. Anybody who wants to make a big difference must be global, must be a global leader in the mindset, in the total packaging of the personality, must be global. There’s a way that the person will drive leadership that will be more sustainable and that is developing leadership systems in an individual’s life to enable the individual to connect with the very best of what happens around the world.

Eddie Turner:

So, how does an individual develop leadership systems in their life?

Linus Okorie:

First thing’s first, a great mentor of mine and somebody that I have a lot of great respect for, Dr. Myles Munroe, has defined leadership as the ability to inspire, motivate, drive a group of people towards a particular direction by inspiration, not intimidation or manipulation. At the center of that definition, it means that for any individual to be able to create initiative, initiate something that can add value to community or business or personal life, that individual must have some high level of preparation and that preparation will be to generate huge level of influence. And for that person to be able to do so, there must be four leadership systems that I designed a couple of years ago, four leadership systems. And the first of the leadership systems is the Learning System. Anybody who wants to make a difference globally must understand the concept of the Learning System. So, it’s a deliberate intentional method where the individual decides to be a perpetual learner for life. A perpetual learner for life, what it means is that the individual becomes hungry for knowledge because leadership flows to the one who knows. When somebody knows it, the person leads. When somebody is knowledgeable about a subject matter, the person provides solutions. And once the person is hungry for knowledge, in pursuit of knowledge, the person always says “I know nothing. I just don’t know” and the person, in every opportunity, he’s getting books, he’s reading both virtually and physically, the individual is keeping libraries, the individual is learning through observation, through reflection, the individual is learning through the power of questions. When he meets somebody great, he shuts his mouth and asks the right questions. And at the end of the day, the individual is on the good path because the individual is a learning person. His entire system is committed to learning.

Imagine if those who lead corporate entities and corporate bodies and political systems are so knowledgeable hat they know what is right, they know what is wrong, they understand the dynamics, what is the trend of things going on right now in their particular field of study, what current leadership competencies that are needed to be able to make progress and it is all in their fingertips. Imagine leaders understand that. That’s the first leadership system which is the Learning System.

Eddie Turner:

All right. So, the Learning System. You gave us a lot there. And I love your phrase “Leadership flows to the one who knows.”

Linus Okorie:

Absolutely.

Eddie Turner:

I like that. That’s very nice, very nice. You said something very interesting that when someone meets a person of note that they should shut their mouth and just listen.

Linus Okorie:

Yes, because there’s a tendency that when people meet somebody important, somebody outstanding, there’s a tendency for these individuals to want to showcase and talk about what they have accomplished. When you meet somebody who has gone ahead of you, why don’t you shut your mouth and open your ears because your ears must ring with the voices of the people. Every leader should open their ears because the people must always speak. So, what the leader would do is to sit, if you cannot buy lunch or you cannot spend more time and even if it’s five minutes, you’re riding with him in a car or in a plane, you want to go into the question zone. You are asking the questions – “How did you get this done? What is going on with this project?”, this and that. And at the end of the day, it’s always an amazing opportunity. These guys always want to talk. They want to share yeah. So, why don’t we just ask all the questions because if we keep asking the questions, we learn more and then we get better.

Eddie Turner:

Now, here’s another reason why I honed in on what you said there. This was four years or five years ago. You may not remember this but Dr. Heifetz who we studied under, he kind of chastised our class. He said “You have all these experts to come together,” that we were trying to do exactly what you said. He said “Some of you can’t take yourself out of the role of expert long enough to become a learner.” He said “The faster you all can get out of expert mode while you’re here at Harvard and just become a learner, immerse yourself in the experience, the better off you will be.”

Linus Okorie:

Absolutely.

Eddie Turner:

And boy, that made us all kind of sit back and zip it, right?

Linus Okorie:

Absolutely. And I said “I flew all the way from Africa, from Nigeria.”

Eddie Turner:

I remember you say that, yes.

Linus Okorie:

I said “I flew all the way from there to come and learn, to come and listen to the authority. Teach me.” So, my opinion is with me but if I learn more from the authority figure, if I learn more from the expert, what it means is that I can add to what I already know. And at the end of the day, I can create my own local content version. That’s what it is. Let me tell you something. If leaders understand this, positional leaders understand this, what it means is that they will listen more, get good feedback and then that will help them in executing their executive roles.

Eddie Turner:

And that’s what we need. That was a good lesson for us all. Excellent. Fantastic.

Well, I’m enjoying talking to you, Linus. This is good memories and good advice.

Hey, we’ve had a couple folks join us. We’ve got David. Welcome, David. David is joining us from Nigeria. Happy to have you with us. And he said “Dr. Linus is simply phenomenal.” So, no doubt one of those 300,000 people you’ve directly impacted is tuned in to listen and support you.

And we also have Princess Lilly. She’s watching from Africa. She says “Always a pleasure listening to you too. Amazing blend. So much wealth of knowledge.” Well, thank you Princess Lilly. So, she must have been one of the folks that was in the session I did that day virtually.

Linus Okorie:

Absolutely, yes.

Eddie Turner:

All right. Excellent. Wonderful.

Well, we want to thank Ivania from Colombia, Marianne from Switzerland, Kendall from Cincinnati, David from Nigeria, and Princess Lilly and all those other folks who’ve tuned in who haven’t said hello yet but I see the participant council excited to see all the folks who’ve tuned in with us.

I’m talking to the amazing Linus Okorie. He is one of the leading leadership coaches and leadership developers in Africa and Founder of the GOTNI Center. And what I’d like to do now is just to pause for a moment to acknowledge some people that help me do what I do.

So, first of all, let me tell you a little bit about the amazing people at Grand Heron International. The key to sustainable leadership lies in the ability to thrive during uncertainty, ambiguity, and change. Grand Heron International brings you to the Coaching Assistance Program, giving your employees on-demand coaching to manage through a challenging situation and arrive at a solution. Visit GrandHeronInternational.ca/Podcast to learn more. I appreciate them always renewing with me.

And also, during the month of September I had other sponsors. American Express sponsored the Keep Leading!® Podcast, Microsoft, AT&T, Progressive, Wal-Mart and, as always, I appreciate the support from the folks over at C-Suite Network and specifically in this case, the C-Suite Radio team. Together we are turning the volume up on business.

You’re watching Keep Leading LIVE™. You can catch this episode later on in your social media feeds after the live broadcast concludes but you can also catch it on KeepLeadingLive.com. It will live there. And in November, this will get released as an audio only episode. So, stay tuned to KeepLeadingPodcast.com to be able to get the audio version of this later on.

So, I’m enjoying my conversation with the amazing Linus Okorie. He is one of Africa’s leading leadership coaches, the founder of the GOTNI Leadership Institute, a speaker and an author.

Before the break, you were sharing with us point number one about how we build leadership systems in ourselves. So, what else would you like to share?

Linus Okorie:

First thing is the Learning System. The second thing I’d like to share is the Integrity System because, as a leader, every word you speak now begins to matter.

Eddie Turner:

Yes.

Linus Okorie:

When you say it, you do it. When you organize your system whereby honesty, the ability to be trustworthy becomes part of your system, the ability to be able to stand up and ensure that you accomplish service integrity, you accomplish product integrity, you accomplish systems integrity, a reliable system around you such that your name is connected to reliability. So, what it means is that when you offer a service, your service passes the integrity test. That’s what it means. So, when you build an integrity system as a leader, you begin to create a name that counts. I used to know a topic executive who was chairman of a great company and then several other companies. He was chairing companies all over the place. How was that happening? Anybody who wanted to invest in Nigeria, they would do a research, they want to find out the best names to bring on board to the companies. And most of the time, Mr. [inaudible][26:33] was one of those that everybody wanted him on board in their companies and they were paying him millions of dollars in that sense just being the chairman of board with no share or not owning the share. The person is supported with huge sums of money just because the person’s name attracts quality people, the person’s name is reliable. So, as leaders who are making great impact, we must get to a point where people believe us and they are convinced by what we represent. That is the quality of the integrity system that we must build at every point in time.

Eddie Turner:

And ethics and the people believing in what we represent, it matters, especially now. We see it in different areas of the globe and this is something that we also focus on and spend a lot of time studying, Linus. Can you tell me when you think about what’s happening as we see unfolding in the world, what’s been the biggest skill set outside of these two that you focused on, bringing in to the people who you’re impacting there at the GOTNI Leadership Institute?

Linus Okorie:

So, the next thing is the Vision System. The truth of the matter is that in very challenging times, in times when people are forced to look at the reality of what is going on and they are scared, they are afraid, they lose courage to pursue. There’s no other time than now that leaders will begin to have a sense of vision, great vision, where leaders can begin to think about what is not existing now and are willing to create those things looking, beyond the now, looking beyond reality, creating things in your mindset, visionary mindset, a mindset that can capture the future because if a man does not have purpose for waking up, sleeping becomes interesting. What happen really is that vision has a way of driving progress. When somebody has a vision, the stretching game comes, the person begins to stretch. There’s a keep-at-it factor. There’s a push that comes with it. There’s a strength that because you see something what every other person is not seeing. In times like this, all over the world, only those who can see beyond now, beyond today, beyond reality, who can look and see “What could be possible?” Do you know that there is [inaudible][29:40]? [Inaudible] In the eastern Germany was given the opportunity by government to privatize 700 own companies and was given 32 staff and was given the Monday to sell one or two per day. When he succeeded, he was asked how did he succeed. You know what he said? There are no models, which means that every individual listening to me today can decide to see a vision nobody else has ever seen and believes in it and gets to the point where he puts all his energy or she puts all the energy into the position of that vision and stretch the best that you can stretch with all the timelines, with all the clear values for realizing them, with all the specifications and pursuing and at the end of the day, that dream comes alive. When that dream is accomplished, it means somebody has brought an invention to the world, it means somebody has brought a solution to the world, it means somebody has brought a service that has solved a problem in the world. It means that the person has stayed in his room and stayed the course of the growth process and grew in mind and grew in creating a product that has become innovative, that has solved some problem and then at the end of the day, people are excited. You know what that means?

Eddie Turner:

Yes.

Linus Okorie:

What it means is that leaders are visionaries.

Eddie Turner:

I love the idea that he said he was successful because there was no framework, no model in front of him. So, he had to be a visionary and create it himself. So, what if someone is lacking in vision and they don’t know where to start, Linus? What would you recommend?

Linus Okorie:

What I recommend, basically, is that people must begin to allow their minds to take away fear. Fear must go. That’s why mind leadership is important where the individual begins to lead from the mind. Mind leadership is a deliberate effort where decisions, because we talk to ourselves on a daily basis and there are things that will scare us to death that penetrate into our mindset – anxiety, the fear of the unknown, uncertainty. All of those things can cause us not to think beyond our noses.

Eddie Turner:

Yes.

Linus Okorie:

And so, what happens usually is that we begin to think about all the bad things that could happen to us, how the world has gone bad and a lot of us get into depression, a lot of us get into a state of inaction, and a lot of us are lost completely, some even commit suicide in that state. So, what it means is that we get into a game of mind security where the leader decides to secure what comes in and only what he or she permits that comes in. Anything that can bring value in the belief system that everything is going to be fine is shut out and everything that encourages “The future is bright. Wow! I can do something.” And then once you get to the state where I can create something that the world will value, what happens is that there’s a sense of urgency in that creation that happens to us. We begin to look at the possibilities of what can be, what could happen, what could we make happen. We begin to look at the solutions that we can bring to the world. Once we start thinking solutions, that we are solutions despite COVID-19, we can create something that can help someone somewhere – “Somebody has a need somewhere. I want to be the solution.” Once leaders begin to think that way, it begins to fulfill the next concept that leaders eat last. Leaders eat last. At every point in time, it’s not about us, every leader thinks, “It’s not about me. It’s about society. It’s about the common good. It’s about community. Despite the fact that I’m hurting, how can I help myself not to hurt to be able to because I need to meet some other people’s needs? I need to create something that the world needs now.”

So, that is the point I’m trying to make. So, leaders go beyond themselves and think of what is not currently existing and create a system where they will be in a vision mode consistently and generating ideas, ideas begin to drop in. When those ideas begin to drop in, the leaders begin to expand those ideas and research and they begin to create a process where, at the end of the day, they are already bringing something different to the world in two, three, four, five months down the line. They invent a new company. they have created a new social enterprise. They have created some interventions that is just meeting somebody’s need. That is what vision is literally about. A visual system for any leader is a must.

Eddie Turner:

Very good. So, to get there, I love what you said, that we have to get rid of fear because fear and creativity cannot exist and then they rub out our vision.

Linus Okorie:

Correct.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent.

Mayomi has joined us. Thank you, Mayomi, for joining. He says “You have an excellent personality.” And David says that “Everything that can’t bring value, we shut out. Every leader thinks about the society and the common good.” And, finally, he says “Leaders go beyond themselves and create systems.” I’m sorry, that wasn’t David. That was Olugie Joe on all three of those. So, excellent. Fantastic.

All right. so, really good feedback for those who are listening to us. You’ve shared three really good tips with us.

Linus Okorie:

The final leadership system, I’d like to share.

Eddie Turner:

Go right ahead. Close this out.

Linus Okorie:

The final leadership ship is called the Execution System. Michael Roberts wrote a book titled Action Has No Season, the concept of developing an action mentality whereby every leader must be in the center of proactive engagement. So, the leader is an executor. So, you have an idea right now. That idea is thought through, solutions created, executed. So, when leaders learn how to get things done – I think about it, it is a good idea, I execute. A lot of people talk too much. There’s plenty to talk – “I’m going to do this. I’m going to do that. I’m going to do that.” I remember one young man who came to my conference a couple of years ago. He brought an idea to me and he said “This is my vision. I want to get this done.” I looked at the idea, great plan and I said “Let’s make it happen. Go and execute it.” Next year he comes back to my conference with the same plan. He hasn’t done anything about it. He hasn’t taken the first step. And I just said to him “You are wasting my time. The world is moving at a faster rate. There is what is called race of nations. Everybody is racing to become. The process of becoming is getting exciting. People want to accomplish great things. And so, if you have an idea and you say “I’m waiting, I’m waiting,” somebody else somewhere in the world is going to pick that idea from somewhere and execute it. Don’t wake up tomorrow and say “That’s my idea.”” Do you hear what I’m saying?

Eddie Turner:

Yes.

Linus Okorie:

Because time waits for nobody. You must develop leaders. Political leaders globally must think in the concept of “What can I do to get my people out of poverty? What can I do to create wealth for my people? What can I do?” And it is the concept of “What can I do? Done. Done. Done.” And as you’re moving and getting things done, you know what happens? Action is associated with leadership. Proactivity is associated with leadership. When you have an action mentality within a company, within a business, it becomes an action mentality culture resident in that business. It becomes the behavior of the organization. The business will begin to breathe. The business will begin to move. Things will begin to happen because everyone is thinking about “How can we connect with activity that is targeted on accomplishing something that is important?” Busyness is not taking action. It is possible to be busy going all over the place but no action has taken place. And once we understand that leadership is associated with taking action, and when leaders take action, things happen.

Eddie Turner:

So, now summarize that list for us just one more time briefly.

Linus Okorie:

So, the list is number one is a learning system. Number two is an integrity system. Number three is a vision system. And number four is execution system. And this is how to live. If you want to lead as a leader, you really have to live which is create a learning system, an integrity system, a vision system, and then execution system.

Eddie Turner:

I love it.

Linus Okorie:

If you do that for personal life, it will create leaders within your own business or family or whatever.

Eddie Turner:

Now, Linus, your passion, your intellect shine through and that was one of the things that endeared you to everybody in our Harvard program and why you clearly stood out. So, I’m excited to get that passion and that intellect here on the Keep Leading LIVE™ program and share it with our audience around the world. Thank you for being a guest today at Keep Leading LIVE™. Where can my listeners learn more about you?

Linus Okorie:

Absolutely. So, you can go to my Instagram page and just follow me at @_LinusOkorie. That’s it. Go to Twitter, follow me on Twitter, @LinusOkorie1 specifically. Go on Facebook. Follow me on Facebook. And on LinkedIn it’s also Linus Okorie. And then you can also visit our website www.GOTNI.africa.

Eddie Turner:

Excellent. I will put that into the show notes when we release the audio only episode and then people will be able to follow you there.

Lisa has stayed with us the entire time. She said she loved this. “Thank you both.” Lisa, thank you for sticking in there with us. We appreciate it. We had a truly international audience today. So, we appreciate everyone who joined us from Nigeria, from Colombia, and we had Switzerland. Just an amazing audience today.

Linus, thank you for being here and helping us to understand how we build leadership systems in ourselves.

Linus Okorie:

Thank you so much, my brother, and it’s been fun. I look forward to get to see you at the faculty soon.

Eddie Turner:

I will see you soon.

And that does it for this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our position. It’s not about our title. Leadership is about action. Leadership is about activity. As Linus reminded us, we must be busy but not just busy, we must execute. Leadership is also something that’s progressive. It’s not the case of being once we’re a leader, we’re always a leader. We must consistent work hard to allow leadership to emanate from our core. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 098 | Building Leadership Systems in Your Life | Linus Okorie appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 097 | Building a Winning Company Culture | Bonnie Harvey and Michael Houlihan

admin — Tue, 01 Dec 2020 08:49:57 +0000

Bonnie Harvey and Michael Houlihan
Founders of Barefoot Wine—America’s #1 Wine Brand
Building a Winning Company Culture

Episode Summary
What does it take to build a winning company culture? Bonnie Harvey and Michael Houlihan, the founders of the world’s largest wine brand, joined me on Keep Leading LIVE!™ to explain the answer! Listen to our conversation to learn more about entrepreneurship, leadership, and company culture.

Keep Leading LIVE!™ (41 Minutes)

Keep Leading LIVE!™

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
Bonnie Harvey and Michael Houlihan are the founders of the world’s largest wine brand, international Keynote Speakers, and New York Times Bestselling authors of The Barefoot Spirit, How Hardship, Hustle, and Heart Built America’s #1 Wine Brand and The Entrepreneurial Culture, 23 Ways to Engage and Empower Your People.

From humble beginnings in a laundry room of a rented farmhouse to the boardroom of the world’s largest wine company, E&J Gallo, they learned valuable lessons crucial to any business. They consult and train startups and Fortune 500’s on brand building and company culture.

They are highly recommended by companies seeking to increase their sales and engage, empower, and inspire their people. They are regular contributors to The Business Journals in 43 cities nationwide, Entrepreneur, and contribute articles & interviews to INC, CEO Forum, Forbes, and other major business publications.

Their new audiobook is presented in a theatrical format with Hollywood actors playing the parts, original musical score, sound effects, and more! Their latest enterprise is Business Audio Theatre, where they offer to tell the stories of other founders to reduce turnover and increase engagement.

They are regular media guests on radio, television, and podcasts. Michael & Bonnie present together with a fresh, authentic, and fun style that entertains, educates, & motivates. www.thebarefootspirit.com www.consumerbrandbuilders.com.

Website
https://thebarefootspirit.com/

Other Website
https://www.consumerbrandbuilders.com/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mhoulihan/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/barefoot_spirit

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/barefoot.founders

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/thebarefootspirit/

Leadership Quote
Leaders must prove that they have their people’s best interests at heart

Get Your Copy of Bonnie and Michael’s Book!
https://www.barefootaudiobook.com/

The Barefoot Spirit Audiobook FREE Chapter 1
https://thebarefootspirit.com/freechapter

Subscribe, Share and Review

Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information
www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com

Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

All right, everyone, I’m excited to be back again for another episode of Keep Leading LIVE™. It’s been a little while since my last episode and I am delighted to be here with you to share with you obviously a live recording of the Keep Leading!® Podcast. The Keep Leading!® Podcast and Keep Leading LIVE™ are dedicated to leadership development and insights. Of course, I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive and leadership coaching, facilitation, and professional speaking.

Well, today, I’m going to talk about leading as an entrepreneur. And as we talk about leading as an entrepreneur, we’re also going to talk about how we build a winning culture inside of organizations. To do so, I want you to meet two very special people who joined me. I am absolutely excited to have with me Bonnie Harvey and Michael Houlihan. They are the founders of the world’s largest wine brand and they’re international keynote speakers and New York Times bestselling authors. We have one of the books right here, The Barefoot Spirit: How Hardship, Hustle, and Heart Built America’s Number One Wine Brand and The Entrepreneurial Culture: 23 Ways to Engage and Empower Your People.

Michael and Bonnie, welcome.

Bonnie Harvey:

Thank you. we’re delighted to be here, Eddie.

Michael Houlihan:

Hi, Eddie.

Eddie Turner:

Hello, hello, hello. I can’t tell you how excited I am to have you all here with me. I got a chance to meet you all virtually a couple of months ago at the C-Suite Network’s Thought Council meeting where our CEO Jeff Hayzlett interviewed you two and I was just fascinated and I said “Hey, I know Jeff Hayzlett but I want to be able to talk to them too and share them with my audience.”

Michael Houlihan:

Well, we’re glad you did.

Eddie Turner:

Well, one of the things that was so intriguing about what you all said that I loved hearing was I want to talk about this new book and about culture but my audience is made up of people who are all about leadership. So, I want to talk about your entrepreneurial journey to start. Can you share that with us?

Michael Houlihan:

Where do you start, right?

Bonnie Harvey:

Yeah. Michael and I have always been self-employed. We’ve been consultants to various types of businesses. And when we moved here to Sonoma County, this is in northern California where there’s many, many grapes grown, there’s lots of wineries. So, a lot of our clients were in the wine industry in one way or another. So, as business consultants, we learned a lot about business. However, we really knew nothing about the wine business until we kind of fell into it backwards.

Michael Houlihan:

It’s crazy. So, bonnie had a client that she was working for, who was owed about 30,000 dollars from a winery for his grapes. He’s a grape grower. And the winery didn’t pay him and they didn’t pay him for three years.

Eddie Turner:

Wow!

Michael Houlihan:

So, finally, Bonnie noticed this in his accounts receivable and asked me to go collect.

Eddie Turner:

So, you were the body man, huh, Michael?

Michael Houlihan:

Well, I just met her about a year before this. So, here I am going to go play the heavy role. When I get there, they’ve already declared bankruptcy and the only thing I could get out of them was goods and bottling services. Now, the goods were wine in bulk and the bottling services. So, we got wine in bulk and bottling services instead of money to pay the debt but it was better than a stick in the eye. I mean, it was something and we thought “Well, we’ll just come up with a label. We’ll come up with a marketing program. We’ll learn everything there is to know about compliance. We’ll learn everything there is to know about distribution. How hard could it take, right?”

Bonnie Harvey:

How hard could it be?

Michael Houlihan:

How hard could it be?

Eddie Turner:

That’s with no money and no experience is what I heard you say.

Bonnie Harvey:

That’s right. Actually, because we were such outsiders and because we had no money, it really was to our advantage. We didn’t throw money at any problems. We had to work them out. We had to be innovative. And we didn’t have money for advertising. So, we went into the community where our end user would be where we would find them around the markets where our product was and we found out what they were interested in besides a bottle with a cute foot on it, okay? And they were interested in a new playground or a library or cleaning up the creek or something and we would support their fundraisers. So, that worked very well for us. By supporting the community, the community in turn supported us and really helped our sales.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. And somehow, miraculously, you went from that beginning, no industry experience, no money to building the world’s largest brand and America’s number one brand, if I understand that correctly.

Bonnie Harvey:

Yes, it is. We didn’t build it to number one. Our acquirer did but we had it for 20 years and the baked-in philosophies that we had with Barefoot, our acquirer took on and continued with, which was supporting the community.

Michael Houlihan:

Well, the thing is when you talk about our travel from the laundry room to the boardroom, it was a rough ride. We learned a lot lessons the hard way. I would say that most entrepreneurs go out there with a good idea and really no idea about how to get it there. So, they really underestimate the distribution process, they underestimate what it takes to get the word out, they underestimate what it takes to hire and train and keep people and keep them engaged. They underestimate all that stuff because they’re focused on their product and their end user. And they forget that between the product and the end user is a whole ton of people that you got to get along with, they’re going to like you. And that’s quite a little lesson. It takes most people about four or five years to learn that lesson.

Bonnie Harvey:

It did us.

Michael Houlihan:

Yeah, we were pretty thick-headed but the thing is that the company’s success, any company’s success is really a function of its people. It’s not the product. People don’t buy products. They buy people because they want to know “Hey, do you stand behind this product, you know? Do you guarantee it, you know? I want the one throat to choke, right? So, I want somebody who’s responsible here. I don’t just want to buy a product.” And so, that’s kind of the lesson we learned. When we started, we were all about the features and the benefits and the pricing, right? And I mean, here we had a five5-dollars bottle of wine with gold medal winner and a cute foot on it. What the heck!

Bonnie Harvey:

It’s just slam dunk.

Michael Houlihan:

It’s a slam dunk. Well, it was more of a slam.

Eddie Turner:

They want one throat to choke. I’ve never heard that, Michael.

Michael Houlihan:

Yeah, they do. They want the one person who’s responsible when they make that purchase.

Eddie Turner:

Yes. No, I got you. I just never heard it put like that way. I love it.

Yeah. So, you realized something that it takes people, as you said, even yourselves, a while to understand and that is it’s about the people, not the products.

Bonnie Harvey:

It’s about the company culture. And the company culture always comes from the top. And as Michael said, we really made all the mistakes in the book to start with but eventually, we did understand how to work with people and we understood how to maneuver through the distribution network and the distributors, the retailers, the sales people and by going out and asking a lot of questions of all these people. That is how we found out about it. And we did that, again, because we didn’t know anything about the industry. So, this is how it was an advantage to us to not step into an industry that we felt we knew everything about. If we had done that, Barefoot wouldn’t be in the market today but because we asked a lot of questions of people and tried to see how we could give them what they wanted from the top to the bottom, everybody in between, that is why barefoot was successful because we were satisfying a need of a great number of people.

Eddie Turner:

I love the way you explained that there, Bonnie, and it reminds me of a quote that Marcia Reynolds uses often, my coach, and she talks about how in coaching if we approach our clients with the beginner’s mind, there are many possibilities. In the expert’s mind, there are a few.

Bonnie Harvey:

That’s right.

Eddie Turner:

So, because you all were beginners, you were endlessly curious. You didn’t go in with this body of knowledge “This is the only way to do it” and that made you such a success.

Bonnie Harvey:

Yes, that was really it. So, a lack of funds and a lack of knowledge were our greatest assets for success.

Michael Houlihan:

And we advise our clients today “Make friends in low places, okay?” Go to the people with dirt under their fingernails.

Eddie Turner:

I like that.

Michael Houlihan:

Go to the people who really move the product. Now, we were in the CPG consumer package goods business but when you think about it, your life is filled with consumer package goods. You go to the store, you go on Amazon, it’s all consumer package goods. So, you have to ask yourself “How did they get there? How did they become for sale? Why is it in my face and why am I buying it?” All of that, in our case, we didn’t have the background to know what to do. So, we went out and we asked people who were driving forklifts. We asked people who were running bottling lines, people who were putting bottles on the shelf, they were clerks. So, these are not the white-collar workers, the college educated folks that you would think or the people who’ve been in the wine business for four and five generations. These are the people who are actually doing the work and they could tell us from their standpoint what worked and what didn’t in terms of packaging, in terms of label, in terms of logo, of this stuff, pricing, handling, you name it. And it was a terrific education for us. Most of those people have never been asked before. So, they just spill. They’re gratified. And that was one of our secrets was, we call it “know the need” as opposed to “need to know”. So, most businesses and most people have the need to know basis – “I’m going to keep you on a need to know basis. You don’t need to know,” they say – but if you tell people “Here’s my problem. Here’s what I want to do. How can I do it?”, that’s giving them the need. So, now they know the need. Now, they can tell you what they know about it but if you’re trying to tell them what you’ve got to sell, you’ve already solved all the problems. That’s a little different attitude. It’s a little more humble but it’s a whole lot more practical in the long run.

Eddie Turner:

Know the need rather than need to know. I love that, Michael. And so, pulling that together with what Bonnie said earlier, it sounds like even this idea that the lack of resources initially made you more innovative and then, to put that together what you said, getting to know the people in the trenches, people in low places to really the people who are actually doing the work.

Michael Houlihan:

Yeah, they’re your best allies

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful, wonderful. Well, it sounds like we have someone tuned in from Facebook who agrees with you. Sunday, he says “Any successful company is about the people, not the product.” So, he agrees with you too.

Michael Houlihan:

Yeah, amen to that, Sunday. You’re absolutely right.

Bonnie Harvey:

Absolutely.

Michael Houlihan:

When you walk into a building, you can’t do that anymore, but when you get on the phone or you’re talking to somebody in another company, you know right away what the owners think and what they value because of the way that that person treats you. So, it comes from the top all the way down and you can’t create a positive company culture unless you realize that the backbone of all successful company cultures is sales. It’s that simple. If you’re not making sales, you don’t have any money to pay anybody. So, it doesn’t matter, right? You’re out of business. To make a sale means that you have to provide customer service and you have to give the customer the experience that they expect and even more than they expect and that comes from the top. So, it’s up to the leader to educate the people about where the money comes from, right? It comes from the customer.

Eddie Turner:

yes, one of my mentors, Bob Dean, he used to say that “The customer experience will never exceed the employee experience.”

Bonnie Harvey:

Amen. I like that, absolutely. And we felt that our customer was everyone who touched our product. So, it was our vendors, our distributors, the distributor’s management, sales people, the retailer, the retailer’s clerk and, finally, our end user whom we found in the community.

Michael Houlihan:

And they all had different needs.

Bonnie Harvey:

Yes.

Michael Houlihan:

And none of them, except for the end user, was interested in a good bottle of wine at a good price. So, I mean, what would happen if you walked up to the guy who owns a distributorship in the Twin Cities and you started talking to him about how great your product was and how low the price was when he really wanted to know if you’ve already been okayed for MGM Chain stores in the Twin Cities that has 200 stores and if he’s going to get to distribute your product to those stores which is going to improve his strategic position in the marketplace. So, it’s a lot different than wine.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, yes, it is. Well, you all have mentioned this foot a couple of times with a logo. Now, I understand there’s a story about this logo.

Bonnie Harvey:

There is a story about it.

Eddie Turner:

Before you tell us the story, let me just share it with my viewers who may not, I don’t know how they cannot know about the Barefoot Wine if you haven’t seen it in the stores, but let me just share this before you tell the story. There we go. Here is a picture of what it looks like. And now, I’ll ask you to tell us the story about the logo.

Bonnie Harvey:

It started with Michael going out into the marketplace to find out what the chain store buyers wanted. It’s really a terrific story and it’s in our book Barefoot Spirit but the bottom line is he said that he wanted a salt and pepper act, put it in a pig, make it better than Bob and cheaper than Bob. And what that meant was he wanted a red and white varietal, Bob being Robert Mondavi, he wanted it better and cheaper than Robert Mondavi which was really a lot to ask for and he wanted it in a pig which was a 1.5 liter. Well, that’s where there was more space in the market for a new product. It was less crowded. There was maybe, at the time, five or six different wineries that were producing the big bottle of wine instead of the usual 750 ml. So, that gave us a huge advantage right away. Another thing that he asked for, the buyer, was that the name be the same as the logo and that it be something that is easy to pronounce, totally in English, no French and he wanted a label that would jump off on the shelf, so she, the female shopper, another point that we learned right then, who buys the most wine, will see it when she’s pushing her cart down the aisle.

Michael Houlihan:

From four feet away.

Bonnie Harvey:

So, that was all a lot of great information and that’s when we went to the bottling line manager and asked him about labels, we went into the stores and asked clerks about labels and we looked at the wine department and we saw it was like a pizza out there, there was so much going on it was really hard to figure out how we could get something that would really jump right off the shelf. So, we finally realized that we had a friend that had been bottling wine with the name Barefoot and had been off the market, it was Barefoot Wine and had been off the market for about 15 years. And so, we said “Well, barefoot is the way grapes were originally crushed to make wine. Well, that’s perfect, okay? And if we put a big foot on the label and a lot of white around it, then that’s going to make it stand right out.” The name’s the same as the logo. So, we solved that creative problem. And it would be easy to remember, easy to pronounce. So, that is a big part of the story of how the foot came about on the label.

Michael Houlihan:

Yeah. So, Bonnie tells this artist in LA who’s a friend of ours to drop a foot for a label and she does and Bonnie doesn’t like them because they’re too squat or this or that and she tells the artist “Well, you know, I want a long thin foot with a high arch.” And so, the artist, in frustration, finally says “Well, just take a photograph or you know send me a picture of one and I’ll copy it.” So, Bonnie’s thinking “Now, where can I get a picture of a long thin foot with a high arch?” And then she goes “I’ve got one right here on the end of my leg.” So, she sends me out for the biggest ink stamp, the biggest pad that she you could find and she puts her foot in it and puts it in the artist’s the paper and FedEx it down to LA and says “More like that.” So, her foot got on the largest selling label in the world.

Eddie Turner:

So, Bonnie has literally put her step around the world, made her mark.

Michael Houlihan:

Yeah, I wanted to dance on everyone’s table.

Eddie Turner:

I love it. Well, I am absolutely enjoying my conversation here with you, Michael Houlihan and Bonnie Harvey, founders of Barefoot Wine, America’s number one brand. And we’re going to take a quick pause here to talk about some of the folks that allow me to do what I’m doing and we’ll be right back with you all.

This is Jeffrey Hayzlett, Chairman and CEO of the C-Suite Network and you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

I want to tell you about my friends over at Grand Heron International. At Grand Heron, you’ll see the address to the website here on the photo, the key to sustainable leadership lies in the ability to thrive during uncertainty, ambiguity, and change. Grand Heron International brings you the Coaching Assistance Program, giving your employees on-demand coaching to manage through a challenging situation and arrive at a solution. Visit GrandHeronInternational.ca/Podcast to learn more.

And a couple other sponsors I want to thank that came in for this month. American Express; Microsoft, specifically promoting their team’s platform; AT&T; Progressive; Wal-Mart; Oracle promoting the NetSuite product; Dropbox; Trulio; and Goldman Sachs, launch with GS, that’s the product that they’re promoting.

If you are watching us here now, you can catch the archives on KeepLeadingLive.com. This will be a regular podcast episode because I know that many of you, about 20% of my listeners, listen on their Apple Watch when they’re working out. So, you can be able to listen to this as a regular audio-only episode in December. This will be one of the closeout episodes for the year. So, visit us at KeepLeadingLive.com and KeepLeadingPodcast.com. Don’t forget to stop by Apple Podcast and give us a rating if you believe that what we’re offering is of value to you.

I am talking to Bonnie Harvey and Michael Houlihan, founders of Barefoot Wine, America’s number one brand.

So, you all told us a lot about culture before we took our break. And now, as we’re coming back, I wanted to ask you about business because you have so much business experience in your other book that we mentioned about entrepreneurship. What is the biggest challenge you see facing businesses today?

Bonnie Harvey:

Engaging their people to stick with them. People, with COVID, they’re working from home. And it makes it a whole lot easier to be looking for another job that might pay just a little bit more. And without their co-workers around them, they start losing touch with the company and they may forget the principles that the founder had. And this is very dangerous because company culture, as we’d said before, comes from the top, comes from the owners and the top management of the company. And they’re not getting that reinforced now. So, I think it’s really important to find a way to reinforce good company culture by giving them the principles that the founder has in a way that they will remember, that they will enjoy hearing, and that they will act upon to really engage them more so they will stay with the company and they’ll act in a way that would make the founder proud.

Eddie Turner:

And speaking of staying with the company, I understand you all did such a fantastic job of creating a culture that people didn’t leave. For the last 10 years, you had no one resign.

Bonnie Harvey:

Yes, that’s right.

Michael Houlihan:

Yeah, we had virtually no turnover but that’s after doing it wrong for five or seven years. We learned our lessons the hard way and when we finally figured out what the keys to a positive company culture were and we began to put ourselves in our employee’s shoes and we began to realize that what they really wanted to know was did we have their best interests at heart. And so, what were their best interests? We had to really come down to it and identify it and lay it out. And we did and we found out that there were four things they were really interested in. Of course, number one was renumeration. They had to pay their bills. They got to put their kids through school. They have to pay their mortgage. Okay. So, everybody knows that but then number two is a little bit more surprising and that is they wanted recognition. They wanted recognition from their fellow workers and they wanted recognition from us, as owners and founders. They wanted appreciation. So, that meant that we had to engage them if they would engage for us. And so, that gets back to sharing problems and asking them for solutions and whatnot. And also, coming out and saying when they did a good job and saying it publicly and saying it in writing and copying it to the entire company, that was really an important breakthrough. And then the third thing that people want is they want time off. They want time off to spend with their kids or they want to have swing time or they want to have a life outside of work. So, this is the part where you have to decide how much work from home can you do versus how much work in the office can you do. We gave them their birthday off with pay, for instance. And yes, they could swing the day to another day. And then the fourth thing that they’re all looking for is security and that means secure job, it means secure retirement, it means secure medical. It means all of this stuff. It means all the social support that an employer can give them. So, we figured out how to manage those four different areas and how to deliver. And once we started doing that, it made a huge difference.

Eddie Turner:

Sounds like you built it off Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.

Michael Houlihan:

Absolutely. We like Maslow.

Eddie Turner:

Well, that’s wonderful. And you mentioned earlier about a money map but I remember you actually described you all had quite a process where you just laid it out for everybody to be able to see it, full transparency.

Bonnie Harvey:

Yes, the money map showed where the money comes from. And it was a physical map, a sheet of paper and it shows that the money comes from the community, that that’s where the consumer is and it shows how that dollar, let’s say 10 dollars that she pays the clerk in the store for the bottle of wine, then the owner takes a portion of that, pays the overhead and then buys another replacement bottle of wine from the distributor and that might be 8 dollars. And then the distributor pays his overhead, buys a wine bottle from us for 5 dollars. So, now we’ve got 5 dollars for that wine. Well, the wine itself costs 3 dollars. So, that leaves us with 1 dollar for our overhead and 1 dollar into the big pot for everybody’s check and for their benefits and for their vacation pay and for everything that they get is in that one pot of gold. So, if somebody wants a raise, the only way they can get it is by increasing the sales and helping that dollar go all the way around and into the pot so the pot will get larger and then they can get a raise. So, it all starts with the sale, doesn’t it?

Michael Houlihan:

Yeah. And by seeing the path that the money takes to get into your wallet, you become aware of every process and you begin to identify, you say “Oh, this is where my job fits in,” you say “This is where I make a difference. Oh, here’s where my fellow worker makes a difference and here’s how I supply my fellow worker with the information that he needs or she needs to do the job so that the cycle will continue to keep the cash flowing.” And I think a lot of companies don’t do that. We like to say “When the cement is wet, you can move it with a trowel but when it gets hard, you need a jackhammer. So, this is why this is the most important thing you can do in the onboarding day or two. People are going to answer all the questions they have about your company the day they’re hired whether you give them the answers or they invent them. You don’t want them to invent the answers because they’ll invent answers that came from the last place they worked. So, when you want to establish a company culture, the first thing you have to do is make sure that the blackboard or the whiteboard is clean. And then the first thing you put on the blackboard or the whiteboard, whatever you want to call it, is the money map. You give them a picture of an actual graphic treasure map and they see it. And if that’s all they get, believe me they are miles ahead and you are miles ahead right there. So, that’s a big secret for us.

Eddie Turner:

It’s huge. I mean, you all shared that with us at the meeting and all of our jaws just dropped. It was incredible because it’s like the light bulb went off for us and we weren’t a part of the company. So, we could only imagine what that must have been like for the employees.

Bonnie Harvey:

It sounds very basic and it is but it’s not something that owners generally think of. And an employee will think that the money comes from the owner, the money comes from the company but the company and the owner aren’t necessarily independently wealthy that they can afford to support everyone on the staff. And, as strange as that sounds, it really is an eye-opener to see the money map, yes. Thanks for appreciating that, Eddie.

Eddie Turner:

Oh, absolutely. Well, you all talked about lessons you all learned and how long it took you to learn them and then how you turned that into an amazing success and that the true success was about the people, not the product but you still made an incredibly impressive product that has gone around the world. What lessons, would you say, if you just take one of the many that you’ve learned, that could keep other leaders who are listening to us from bumping their heads a little bit that they could avoid with just one you could share.

Bonnie Harvey:

Put yourself in the other guy’s shoes. The other guy is everyone that you do business with. It could be in your personal life too. It certainly works in your personal life. Put yourself in the other guy’s shoes. Find out what it feels like. Talk to them and find out what their needs are and fulfill their needs. Then you’ll be successful.

Michael Houlihan:

In other words, don’t fall in love with your product. Yes, you have to have a fantastic product. It’s got to be knocking it out of the park. It’s just got to be destroying the competition but even with that, you’ll fail because there’s warehouses in Des Moines, Iowa, that are filled with great products that never made it to market. And the reason they didn’t was because the owners the founders and the companies that were behind them didn’t know how to put themselves in the other guy’s shoes and satisfy their problems so that it could move along and get into distribution. We speak all over the world and one of the big questions that we get all the time is “How do you sell products in the United States? We want to sell products in the United States. It’s the best market in the world.” Well, it’s because we have so many freeways here. General Eisenhower, after the war, he said “Okay, we’re going to build an interstate highway system.” Well, that resulted in trucks. That resulted in big container loads of trucks. And so, the most efficient way to move things was by big container loads but people are not going to buy a big container load if they don’t like you. They’re not going to buy a big container load if they can’t trust you. So, how do you build that trust? How do you get them to know, like and trust you? So, that’s the key to success in America and it’s the key to success throughout the world actually.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. Well, as I think about a lot of the things I like to share with leaders, we always like to leave them with one quote that they can live by. You all have given us several great quotes throughout the conversation today but is there one last quote that you use, that you live by that you can share with us as well?

Bonnie Harvey:

There’s the two-division company. All companies have two divisions. Sales, that’s on top and Sales Support, that’s everybody else. That’s the CEO, the CFO, the COO, it’s the VP, it’s even the P. We’re all in sales support.

Eddie Turner:

That is a great quote. I appreciate that.

Now, I pointed out earlier this cover because I wanted to show the foot but I want to go back to this for a moment if I could because there’s a story behind this. Can you all talk about what this is for my listeners?

Michael Houlihan:

Well, this is actually the story behind the story. So, what this is, is our new audiobook which is different than other audiobooks. Most audio books are read to you. This audiobook is performed for you. It is fully casted. It has sound effects. It has music. It is dramatic. It is gripping. It is a seat of your pants rocket ride on an entrepreneurial adventure where you will accompany Michael and Bonnie as they get their butts kicked, pick themselves up off the sidewalk, learn a few lessons, dust themselves off and proceed onward. And I think you’ll enjoy it. It was one of the top five audiobooks of the year by the Audiobook Publishers Association. And business books are pretty boring – The Three Things You Got to Do, the Five Things to Never Do, the 20 Things Your Customer Wants from You. I forget them and at number three, I’m done. This is not patronistic. This is not anybody telling you anything. This is you experiencing, acting in scenes and they’re fun and you’ll enjoy it and you’ll walk away with some really good ideas. You’ll say “Man, I don’t want to be like Jim, you know. I remember what happened to Jim.” And so, there’s a lot of Jims and Marys and Janes in this book and they do a lot of things so that every scene has action, it has outtakes, it has consequences.

Bonnie Harvey:

It’s how we built our company culture. It’s the philosophy that we use that was very successful and it’s all told in story form because people can remember stories. They’re not going to remember “Do these three or seven things” but if I give you three or seven stories, that’s what you’re going to remember and then you glean the message out of that, makes it memorable.

Michael Houlihan:

And so, we’re going to make it memorable for you. We’re going to offer every listener to Eddie’s podcast is going to get a free chapter. So, this is like an episode, a 25-minute episode, you’re going to get it for free. We’re going to have the download link in the show notes.

Eddie Turner:

Well, that’s very generous of you all. Thank you for doing that.

Michael Houlihan:

Hope you all enjoy it.

Eddie Turner:

Well, I am delighted and just thank you so much. And thank you for being here with me today. Where can my listeners learn more about you two?

Michael Houlihan:

Well, you can go to www.TheBarefootSpirit.com.

Eddie Turner:

Okay, excellent. So, I’ll be putting that in the show notes along with a copy of the two books that you’ve produced so folks can read about you all, follow you on social media, they are following you on social media, follow you on social media. The Barefoot Spirit is a wonderful spirit about the culture that you all have created and you’re just amazing people who’ve done amazing work. Thank you for being with me today.

Bonnie Harvey:

Thank you. Thank you very much, Eddie.

Michael Houlihan:

Thank you, Eddie. And thank you everybody for tuning in.

Eddie Turner:

Yes, thank you all for tuning in. That concludes this episode, everyone. I’m Eddie Turner, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is about action. Leadership is about activity. It’s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate from all that we do. So, whatever you’re doing, always keep leading.

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 097 | Building a Winning Company Culture | Bonnie Harvey and Michael Houlihan appeared first on Eddie Turner.

Keep Leading!® Podcast 096 | Self-Leadership | Andrew Bryant

admin — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 07:21:54 +0000

Andrew Bryant
Self-leadership Author & Thought-Leader
Self-Leadership

Episode Summary
In this episode, I sit down with Andrew Bryant to discuss his thought leadership around Self-Leadership. Andrew explains his work and his mission to “wake people up” to the power of taking ownership of their thinking, feelings, and actions.

Check out the “60-Second Preview” of this episode!

Bio
As a Global Influencer on Self-leadership and Effective leadership, Andrew Bryant is on a mission to ‘Wake People Up’ to the power of taking ownership of your thinking, feeling, and actions.
Andrew is a best-selling author, Certified Speaking Professional, and an Executive Coach. He has spoken for TEDx and audiences as large as 12,000. He facilitates breakthrough learning sessions and cultural change for senior leadership teams and helps C-level leaders scale themselves and their companies through 1 to 1 coaching.

Andrew Bryant is the author of ‘Self-Leadership: How to Become a More Successful, Efficient and Effective Leader from the Inside Out’ (McGraw-Hill 2012) and the Best-Selling, ‘Self Leadership: 12 Powerful Mindsets & Methods to Win in Life and Business’

With his expertise on Self-leadership and Leading Cultures, he has transformed individuals and teams to be more intentional, influential, and impactful. Through greater ownership, he empowers people to become more resilient and agile to face the complexities and uncertainties of our modern world.

Andrew is on the Women in Leadership Faculty of Singapore Management University, The Leadership faculty for IE University (Madrid), but is most proud of the work he does coaching Self-leadership for at-risk and disadvantaged teenagers through CampVision.

English by birth, Australian by Passport, Singapore by Residence, and Brazilian by wife – he is truly Multi-cultural in his approach.

Website
https://www.selfleadership.com/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewbryant/

Twitter
https://twitter.com/SelfLeadership

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/selfleadershipinternational/

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/selfleadership/

Leadership Quote
“Self-leadership means that you, as an individual, decide exactly who you are and what you want. You write it down and make a plan – a goal – and you work on it every day. Self-leadership means that you expect complete responsibility for your results and outcomes. You don’t blame other people. You don’t make excuses. You are in charge.” Brian Tracy

Get Your Copy of Andrew’s Books!
https://www.amazon.com/Self-Leadership-Powerful-Mindsets-Business/dp/981099401X
https://www.amazon.com/Self-Leadership-Become-Successful-Efficient-Effective/dp/0071799095

Subscribe, Share and Review

Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information
www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com

Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)
www.KeepLeadingLive.com

Transcript

This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.

Eddie Turner:

Hello! Welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast. I’m your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact. The Keep Leading!® Podcast is dedicated to leadership development and insights. To that end, we’ve covered a lot of areas of leadership on the Keep Leading!® Podcast – Women and Leadership, Leading with Gratitude, Leadership Grace, Leadership Intelligence, and so much more.Do you know we have not covered yet, at least explicitly? Self-Leadership. Today, we will discuss self-leadership. We will do it with my guest Andrew Bryant. Andrew Bryant is a global influencer on self-leadership and effective leadership. He is on a mission to wake people up to the power of taking ownership for their thinking, feelings, and actions. Andrew is a bestselling author, certified speaking professional, and an executive coach. He has spoken for TEDx and for audiences as large as 12000. Andrew is the author of Self Leadership: How to Become a More Successful, Efficient and Effective Leader from the Inside Out and the bestselling Self Leadership: 12 Powerful Mindsets and methods to Win in Life and Business. He is English by birth, Australian by passport, Singaporean by residence, and Brazilian by marriage. Truly, a multicultural approach.

I’m excited to have Andrew Bryant. Andrew, welcome to the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Andrew Bryant:

Well, hello, Eddie, and thanks for having me on.

Eddie Turner:

I just got to tell you it’s good to finally connect with you again. We’ve met and interacted with each other a few times as members of the National Speakers Association at different conferences and we’re also both coaches. In fact, you had me as a part of your thought Leader Summit there in Singapore virtually.

Andrew Bryant:

That’s right. The power of the internet, geography is no longer an issue.

Eddie Turner:

No longer an issue indeed. In fact, our friend in many cases, depending on what’s going on in the world, right?

Andrew Bryant:

It certainly is. It’s a great way to connect across distances. I mean, it’s Tuesday morning for me and it’s on Monday night for you, right?

Eddie Turner:

Yes, yes, yes. So, Andrew, this idea of self-leadership. As I mentioned, we’ve talked about a lot of different aspects of leadership here and tacitly we’ve covered self-leadership but today we’re going to cover it explicitly. So, tell us what is self-leadership.

Andrew Bryant:

Well, self-leadership is the practice of intentionally influencing your thinking, feeling, and actions towards your objectives. That’s a definition that myself and my co-author Dr. Anna Kazan came up with in the 2012 book that you mentioned, How to Become a More Successful, Efficient, and Effective Leader from the Inside Out but we’re not the first people to talk about self-leadership. In fact, the first author to coin the term was Charles Manz but the concept of self-leadership goes back to the Roman stoics, the Greek philosophers to Lao Tzu in Chinese antiquity saying that “Mastery of others is strength but mastery of self is true power.” I think, we all inherently know that before we can lead others, we have to lead ourselves. And from about 1999, I stumbled on the importance of this concept in my own life, realizing that sometimes we teach best that which we most need to learn, that we all have an element of self-leadership or self-management but it is the refining of that, it is the practice of that that makes the difference between those that are successful and those that kind of bob along through life like a leaf in the wind.

Eddie Turner:

Okay, that’s an interesting quote that you use – “Mastery of others is strength. Mastery of self is true power.” What a powerful quote.

Andrew Bryant:

Yeah, that was Lao Tzu. And in Greek philosophy, Plato had a very similar idea or concept. From the Roman stoics to the Greek philosophers, down through time, there’s always been this recognition that if we want to be influential in the world, we have to start with ourselves.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed. So many people don’t see that though, right? So many people feel like it’s just about controlling others.

Andrew Bryant:

They do. The most important piece of equipment for any leader is not very expensive and you can acquire it at a hardware store and it’s called a mirror. And if you’re not getting the effect you want from your team, then look in the mirror because that’s where probably the problem lies.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed. And we have to have a certain amount of self-awareness to be able to accept what we see in the mirror. Is that true?

Andrew Bryant:

Absolutely. And the correlation between self-awareness and self-leadership and effective leadership is very clear. Leaders that lack self-leadership and lack self-awareness clearly have problems with their people, which brings us to sort of the academic construct behind self-leadership. I’ve been speaking and writing about it for 20 years. It’s now perhaps trendy or the #SelfLeadership is out there and everybody is talking about it but they don’t agree necessarily on a construct. So, people use the term not realizing there is actually academic rigor behind it. And I have a piece of work that’s about to be published that looks at self-leadership in terms of self-awareness which we’re talking about – “What am I thinking? What are my intentions? What is my purpose? What are my values?” Self-regulation, which we often would call personal mastery, the mastery of our habits, that’s self-regulation. And self-learning. And those three constructs are anchored by context because self-leadership in North Korea is going to be very different from self-leadership in North Carolina in the sense that how we can execute our self-leadership depends on the context that we’re in. So, absolutely, everything starts with self-awareness – “Who am I? What’s important to me? Where am I going?” I mean, these are perennial questions but the self-leader spends some time thinking about them.

Eddie Turner:

So, if we are going to control others as a leader or influence them, we must be influencing ourselves for if we can’t control ourselves, we certainly can’t help anyone else. So, the big question becomes how – “How do I get to the point where I can develop this mastery over myself?”

Andrew Bryant:

Absolutely. First, before we go there, just take a step back for a moment and the permission to do that because culturally, a lot of people remember talking about the context, whether you’re in an I culture or a We culture. When I first started talking about self-leadership, a lot of people said “Well, isn’t that selfish?” So, when we talk about self-leadership, a lot of people go “I don’t have permission to lead myself. I’m supposed to serve others and it’s about the community and I’m not important.” And I think, we have to address that before we can get into self-leadership because that’s the block. So, self-leadership certainly isn’t selfish. There’s the metaphor that if you’re on a plane and the oxygen mask do fall from the ceiling, you’re supposed to put the oxygen mask over your nose and mouth before assisting others, even children, for the clear reason that if you run out of air, you can’t help anybody else. So, if you’re a doctor, a nurse, a care worker, you have to look after yourself. Otherwise, you burn out, you can’t serve other people. So, this concept that self-leadership is selfish is erroneous. When we move up Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs to self-actualization, we’re much more likely to help other people than we’re worried about our own survival and security, in which case we’d be the person climbing over other people to get out of that plane.So, step one is that self-leadership is not selfish and it’s not any way a lack of humility. Where I’m living in Asia, people are very concerned about we must be humble but the true meaning of humility is from the Latin ‘Humilitas’ which means grounded. So, when we practice self-leadership, we become grounded and therefore, we’re much more able to support others. so, I just want to get that out as a frame because when I teach or coach self-leadership, I often hit this limitation that people go “Well, I can’t grow myself if I don’t first help others” and I go “Well, it’s very difficult to be a philanthropist if you’re broke. Make the money. Then you can give it away.”

Eddie Turner:

Indeed. And to be the opposite of being selfish, it’s actually self-care. And if we are not in a condition where we’ve taken care of ourselves and developed a mastery over ourselves, we have nothing to give anyone else, to your point, your illustration of philanthropy.

Andrew Bryant:

Absolutely. So, that’s the first frame. So, how do we go about it is that we remove any guilt about developing ourselves because in relationship, my personal belief is that the best compliment you can pay anybody you’re in relationship with is to 100% turn up and be yourself. Don’t try and be somebody else. Don’t try and fake it. Don’t try and manipulate them. Turn up and be 100% yourself.

Eddie Turner:

And the best version of yourself too, right?

Andrew Bryant:

Exactly, and the best version of yourself. And the way we’re wired with a big prefrontal cortex in our brain which is the scenario planning piece of our brain is always about envisaging the best outcome for ourselves. So, we are outcome driven organisms. So, we are absolutely wired to visualize a future that is better. And we have memory to remind us of our learnings. And then we have this prefrontal cortex to point us in that direction. So, self-leadership is just articulating that we want to be clear about what is that best version of ourselves and that’s where self-awareness comes in. It’s asking “What’s my intention? I’m intentionally moving in a direction and that direction includes being the best version of myself.” So, this is the classic what are you being, what are you doing and what are you having. Often people start goal setting with saying “Here’s what I want to have” whether it’s a gold medal or a or a Maserati. Before you have the gold medal or the Maserati, you’ve got to do certain things, you’ve got to engage in some actions. And before that, there’s who you are, turning up. So, self-leadership starts with that inner game which you as a coach know, the inner game and the outer game. The inner game is how I think about things. The outer game is how I act out those things. So, it starts with a clear reflection. Sometimes people become naturally reflective. Sometimes people go to a cultural therapist to become reflective. Sometimes something happens in life that causes us to be reflective, what I call a moment. Sometimes you lose all your money or have a health challenge or go through a divorce or a business collapse and boy, do you get some reflection.

Eddie Turner:

Well, I’m talking to Andrew Bryant, a global influencer on self-leadership and effective leadership. He’s on a mission to wake people up to the power of taking ownership for their thinking, feeling, and actions. We’ll have more with Andrew right after this.

This is Jane Anderson, personal branding expert from Down Under, and you are listening to the Keep Leading!® Podcast with the one and only Eddie Turner.

Eddie Turner:

We’re back. I’m talking to Andrew Bryant, bestselling author of Self Leadership: How to Become a More Successful, Efficient and Effective Leader from the Inside Out.Andrew, before the break we were talking about the steps it takes to develop self-leadership and why it matters. Can you talk a little bit about once we’ve identified the steps, how we take the ownership to execute?

Andrew Bryant:

Well, ownership is the key word. So, before break we talked about self-awareness. Self-mastery or self-regulation is taking ownership. It’s taking ownership of your thoughts, feelings, and actions. So, how do you take ownership of feelings is you recognize they are your feelings. Does somebody make you angry? No, you get angry about something somebody else did. And that distinction people lose because we feel the anger and there was a trigger and therefore, we blame the trigger. When you become a self-leader, you take our ownership – “It’s my excitement, it’s my happiness, it’s my grief, it’s my anger, it’s my frustration.” Once we take ownership of that and we take ownership of our actions that come out of that, then we become very self-determined. So, ownership or autonomy or responsibility are the key signs of a self-leader. They go “Okay, this happened. I’m going to take ownership of my actions and therefore, I can change my behavior.” So, the ability to take feedback or feed forward, as our friend Marshall Goldsmiths would say, is very much you need to take ownership. And with ownership and responsibility, you can impact the world around you.

Eddie Turner:

Okay. Well, there are organizations that would love to have more self-leadership among their leaders. How can organizations foster a culture where people are taking ownership of themselves, increasing their level of self-awareness that ends up with better performance?

Andrew Bryant:

Certainly. Well, you can clearly see that if an organization doesn’t have that because people are blaming and complaining, they’re not taking that ownership. With great power comes great responsibility, according to uncle Ben, but with great responsibility comes great power. So, organizations need to treat their people as individuals, give them that ownership and allow them to take action. And for that, we have to treat people as adults and not as children, which means managers have to ask questions and have to empower people to think and to act. And if they don’t, they get automatons. And with the advance of AI, if somebody is not thinking, feeling, and acting, they can be replaced by an algorithm. And so, self-leadership is never more important.

Eddie Turner:

That’s a good distinction to make, the connection between what’s coming with AI – artificial intelligence – and automation that is transforming industries of all types faster and in a more permanent way than what we’ve ever seen before. So, yeah, I really like that connection that you make to that.So, if we piggyback off that, what happens to people in organizations if they don’t promote a culture of self-leadership? Would you say that which you just mentioned with the disintermediation?

Andrew Bryant:

Yeah. I mean, I included the with and the without in that definition. And I think, it’s classic in engagement schools. If people are not engaged, it’s because they don’t feel a level of ownership with the organization. Organizations that have really blossomed, the early days of Google when it grew so rapidly, everybody was a Googler, they felt ownership of the company and they took actions as if it was their company. You and I both as entrepreneurs know that every day we get up, it’s our company and if we don’t take actions, nothing gets done. If you scale your organization, you want everybody to feel that level of ownership and everybody’s feeling as if they own it. That means every customer interaction is going to be fabulous because you feel like you own the company. If somebody sees waste, they’re going to fix that waste because they feel like they own the company, right? If somebody sees an opportunity, etc. etc. If somebody doesn’t feel ownership, if they’ve been treated like a child by their boss, they’ve been given targets that they weren’t engaged in, they’ll do the bare minimum. If you try to tell a teenager to clean the room, when you tell them to clean the room, they’ll do the bare minimum and possibly hide sweet wrappers in the closet, right? I speak from personal experience but if you help your teenagers to think “This is your room. This is your space. You own this. You live in this. This is your character, then they design the room and they decorate it for themselves.”

Eddie Turner:

Yeah, I read a fascinating article that drew a nice comparison and they introduced a new phrase that I like, based on what you just said there. The idea that companies at times will kind of run people who have an entrepreneurial spirit outside the company, they say they want innovative people and people who think outside the box but they really stifle them to the point that the people end up leaving, and it said that if you really harness the innovative thoughts, the free spirit of these individuals rather than having them leave the company and in some cases end up competing against the company as entrepreneurs, they could be used to keep that hunger, that thirst inside the company and be an intrapreneur and that’s where some of the greatest ideas can come from. And Google and some of those Silicon Valley companies are really good about that, you have a bunch of intrapreneurs running around.

Andrew Bryant:

I’m a great fan of looking at the origin of words and the word ‘entrepreneur’ comes from the French ‘entreprendre’ which means to undertake and it used to mean to undertake the risk of a journey. It was the French economist Jean-Baptiste Say who used ‘entreprendre’ to mean to undertake the risk of business. And, of course, when we’re undertaking risk, we’re making choices. And this is the key of self-leadership is the ability to look at a choice and using your thinking to go “What’s the right choice here?” And for people in an organization to make entrepreneurial or intrapreneurial decisions, they know the direction of the company, they know the values of the company. So, they have that compass to make the decisions to move the company forward without being instructed. We know that Gmail was not a command from Google “Design Gmail.” Somebody made it off on the side. We know that SMS at Nokia was not commanded by Nokia “Develop SMS text messaging.” It was designed by an engineer who actually wanted to do it for his own daughter who was deaf. So, as you say, the creative creations come when people own the outcome but they have to own the outcome in a context where they know the direction because you don’t want people working against the company. So, that ability of the leaders to articulate the vision, the mission, the values and then to empower people to get there, supporting them, giving them feedback, etc., that’s when you really get an entrepreneurial organization.

Eddie Turner:

Indeed, indeed. So, Andrew, what would you say is the message that you want people listening to our podcast to take away?

Andrew Bryant:

I’m on a message to wake up. in life you can be the driver or you can be the passenger. And it’s very easy to be the passenger. It’s very easy to go along with what’s happening, etc. but when you drive a car, in America, you’ve got big open highways and great cars, when you’re driving, you are in control, you’re making the decisions but it comes with a level of risk and it comes with a level of responsibility to other drivers on the road. The key message here is it’s your life, it’s your career. Do not just expect your boss to give you a promotion. I run a program called C-Suite Accelerator and so many people missed out on promotions because they just did good work but they weren’t saying “Well, actually, I need to take ownership. It’s my career. I want to move up. I need to articulate that.” And so, the key message is wake up. It’s your life. It’s your career. Get in the driver’s seat and navigate.

Eddie Turner:

All right. I like it. So, this is the Keep Leading!® Podcast and on the Keep Leading!® Podcast, in addition to the wonderful messages that you share with us throughout this conversation, I always like to get a quote or the best piece of advice you’ve ever heard or read. Can you share that so that we can keep leading as leaders?

Andrew Bryant:

Sure. So, as I said, I’m not the only person who talks about self-leadership. There are other books out there. There are other authors. And I was interviewing the great Brian Tracy. And I said to Brian “What do you think about self-leadership?” and he just nailed it, he said “Self-leadership means that you as an individual decide exactly who you are and what you want. You write it down, make a plan, a goal and you work on it every day. Self-leadership means that you expect complete responsibility for your results and outcomes. You don’t blame other people. You don’t make excuses. You are in charge.” So, kudos to the great Brian. He just nailed that definition.

Eddie Turner:

That is indeed a great definition. And Brian Tracy also is a member of the National Speakers Association but he is a true, true legend. So, thank you for sharing that, Andrew.Where can my listeners learn more about you?

Andrew Bryant:

Well, it’s very easy. We’ve been talking about self-leadership and I own the domain. You just go to SelfLeadership.com. And on the homepage there, it will send you in different directions. If you’re interested in coaching, there’s a button for that. If you’re interested in my C-Suite Accelerator Program, there’s a button for that. If you’re in an organization and you’re interested in putting self-leadership into your organization, creating a culture, there’s a button for that. And if you want me to speak at your conference or convention, there’s a button for that. And, as you discovered, I’m truly global and these days we do a lot of things through the internet with virtual conferences, virtual workshops, and virtual coaching. It saves on air miles.

Eddie Turner:

Wonderful. I’ll throw that in the show notes so that folks can reach out and connect with you and get to know you and use your services.

Andrew Bryant:

My pleasure, Eddie.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you for being a guest on the Keep Leading!® Podcast.

Andrew Bryant:

Hey, great to chat you, Eddie.

Eddie Turner:

Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.

The post Keep Leading!® Podcast 096 | Self-Leadership | Andrew Bryant appeared first on Eddie Turner.