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		<title>Keep Leading!® Podcast 169 &#124; Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D. &#124;  The Science of Leadership</title>
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					<description><![CDATA[<p>Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D. Best-Selling Author, Harvard Faculty, Thinkers 50 Top Global Coach 2025, member 100 Coaches, Executive Director, Institute of Coaching, CEO at Leadershift, Inc. The Science of Leadership Episode Summary What does science teach us about becoming a more effective leader? In this episode of the Keep Leading!® Podcast, host Eddie Turner sits down with Dr. Jeffrey Hull, executive coach,  [...]</p>
<p>The post <a href="https://eddieturnerllc.com/keep-leading-podcast/the-science-of-leadership/">Keep Leading!® Podcast 169 | Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D. |  The Science of Leadership</a> appeared first on <a href="https://eddieturnerllc.com">Eddie Turner</a>.</p>
]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D.</strong><br />
<em>Best-Selling Author, Harvard Faculty, Thinkers 50 Top Global Coach 2025, member 100 Coaches, Executive Director, Institute of Coaching, CEO at Leadershift, Inc.</em></p>
<p><em><strong>The Science of Leadership</strong></em></p>
<p><iframe src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=CSN4179272332" width="100%" height="200" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe></p>
<p><strong>Episode Summary</strong></p>
<p>What does <em>science</em> teach us about becoming a more effective leader? In this episode of the <strong>Keep Leading!® Podcast</strong>, host <strong>Eddie Turner</strong> sits down with <strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull</strong>, executive coach, psychologist, and author of <em>Flex: The Art and Science of Leadership in a Changing World.</em></p>
<p>Together, they explore how cutting-edge research in <strong>neuroscience, emotional intelligence, and adaptive leadership</strong> is transforming how we think about success in organizations today. Dr. Hull shares actionable insights on:</p>
<ul>
<li>Applying the science behind <strong>leadership agility and psychological safety</strong>.</li>
<li>Leading teams through rapid change and innovation.</li>
<li>Balancing <strong>data-driven decision-making</strong>with empathy and authenticity.</li>
<li>Developing emotional intelligence to improve team engagement and performance.</li>
</ul>
<p>Whether you’re an <strong>executive, team leader, or aspiring coach</strong>, this conversation offers science-backed strategies to help you lead with clarity, curiosity, and confidence.</p>
<p>Listen now to discover why <strong>leadership is both an art and a science</strong>—and how you can use proven research to <em>Keep Leading!</em>®</p>
<p><strong>Keep Leading!® Live</strong><br />
<div class="fusion-video fusion-youtube" style="--awb-max-width:600px;--awb-max-height:360px;"><div class="video-shortcode"><div class="fluid-width-video-wrapper" style="padding-top:60%;" ><iframe title="YouTube video player 1" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lLDt-L5O0pI?wmode=transparent&autoplay=0" width="600" height="360" allowfullscreen allow="autoplay; fullscreen"></iframe></div></div></div></p>
<p><strong>Bio</strong><br />
Jeffrey Hull is a leadership consultant, executive coach, and Executive Director of the Institute of Coaching at Harvard Medical School, where he also serves as a clinical instructor in psychology. Named one of the top fifty coaches in the world by Thinkers50 in 2024, Hull has conducted over 20,000 coaching sessions with senior leaders globally through his consultancy, Leadershift Inc. He is the author of the bestselling book &#8220;FLEX: The Art and Science of Leadership in a Changing World&#8221; and co-author of the upcoming &#8220;The Science of Leadership: Nine Ways to Expand Your Impact&#8221; (July 2025), which combines coaching practices with actionable science for everyday leaders. An adjunct professor at New York University and sought-after keynote speaker, Hull has worked with major organizations including Goldman Sachs, Yale New Haven Medical Institute, and the International Coach Federation, focusing on evidence-based leadership development and transformational coaching techniques.</p>
<p><strong>Website</strong><br />
<a href="https://www.jeffreyhull.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.jeffreyhull.com</a></p>
<p><strong>Dr. Jeff Hull’s Book</strong><br />
<a href="https://www.scienceofleadership.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.scienceofleadership.com</a></p>
<p><strong>LinkedIn</strong><br />
<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffreywhull/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffreywhull/</a></p>
<p><strong>Subscribe, share, and review on Apple Podcasts!</strong><br />
<a href="https://bit.ly/4kPBcZo" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://bit.ly/4kPBcZo</a></p>
<p><strong>Subscribe, share, and review on Spotify</strong><br />
<a href="https://spoti.fi/4iOFzlB" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://spoti.fi/4iOFzlB</a></p>
<p><strong>Full Episode Transcripts and Detailed Guest Information</strong><br />
<a href="https://KeepLeadingPodcast.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">www.KeepLeadingPodcast.com</a></p>
<p><strong>Keep Leading LIVE (Live Recordings of the Keep Leading!® Podcast)</strong><br />
<a href="https://KeepLeadingLive.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">www.KeepLeadingLive.com</a></p>
<p><strong>Connect with Eddie Turner</strong><br />
Website: <a href="https://www.eddieturnerllc.com">https://www.eddieturnerllc.com</a><br />
LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/eddieturner" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.linkedin.com/in/eddieturner</a></p>
<p><strong>About the Keep Leading!® Podcast</strong></p>
<p>The Keep Leading!® podcast is designed for individuals passionate about leadership. It focuses on leadership development and insights. Join your host, Eddie Turner, as he engages with accomplished leaders and influential figures from around the world about their journeys to leadership excellence. Listen as they share their leadership strategies, techniques, and insights.</p>
<p><strong>Share the Inspiration</strong></p>
<p>Are you inspired by what you hear? Share the episode with your network to help spread the message of empowerment and leadership. Use the hashtags #KeepLeading and #KeepLeadingPodcast to join the community of listeners dedicated to continuous growth and excellence in leadership.</p>
<h3>Transcript</h3>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Hello, welcome to Keep Leading Live. This is the live edition of the Keep Leading podcast where we look at leadership subjects and the idea is about leadership development and insights for my listeners. I&#8217;m Eddie Turner, the Leadership Accelerator. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact through the power of executive coaching, masterful facilitation,</p>
<p>and keynote speeches. I&#8217;m broadcasting today on usually LinkedIn, don&#8217;t think that was gonna work, but Facebook and YouTube. This is a part of the C-suite network. So on C-suite radio, you can access this or wherever you download podcasts within a week or so we&#8217;ll have that live there. And this is available on Spotify as a video.</p>
<p>as well as the audio for you to be able to replay later. So we&#8217;ll encourage you to access the show later on in that respect. And if you&#8217;re not following my guests today, I&#8217;m going to encourage you to do that. This is someone who you definitely want to know. Now, here&#8217;s the reason why. This is a Keep Leading Podcast. It&#8217;s all about leadership. And I&#8217;ve examined many aspects of leadership.</p>
<p>And everyone has definitions. And I even took one of my most fulfilling programs I ever took in my life was about the art of leadership. Well, today I have a gentleman who has done research on the science of leadership. What does that mean? Why does it matter? Why should you want to read this new book that he&#8217;s released with that precise title?</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
My guest today is Dr. Jeffrey Hull. Dr. Jeffrey Hull at Department of War.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
My guest today is Dr. Jeffrey Hull. Dr. Jeffrey Hull and Margaret Moore have written the book, The Science of Leadership. And we&#8217;re going to look at the systematic elements that they have compiled that allow you to process what effective leadership looks like. And Dr. Jeff Hull is no stranger here on the Keep Leading Podcast. He is one of my few repeat guests.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
the science of leadership. And we&#8217;re going to look at the systematic elements of the EF compile that allow you to process what effective leadership looks like. And Dr. Jeff Ho is no stranger to that.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
So when I saw that he had this new book coming out, it&#8217;s right in harmony with everything that I&#8217;m passionate about. had to interview him. So I&#8217;m grateful that he accepted my interview. Jeff, welcome back to the Keith Levy Podcast.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Thank you, Eddie. It&#8217;s a pleasure to be back with you again.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Thank you for agreeing to come back and be with me. Tell our listeners who don&#8217;t know who you are, just a little bit about yourself.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Well, like everyone else, I have a long convoluted resume, but the simple version is I am currently the executive director of the Institute of Coaching, which is a global association of coaches affiliated with Harvard Medical School. And I am also a leadership coach like you. So a good portion of my time is spent coaching leaders all over the world.</p>
<p>And then finally I do some writing, as you mentioned, a new book just came out, my third book. And I also teach Harvard Medical School part-time at NYU. And I recently started teaching part-time in Berlin at ESMT, doing some programs there. So a little combination, I guess they call it the portfolio career, writing, teaching, coaching, all the great stuff.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Yeah, but what&#8217;s beautiful is you&#8217;re writing, teaching, coaching, they go hand in hand. And so when you&#8217;re teaching, you&#8217;re bringing real world evidence to the classroom that is practical. Not just we need that hardcore academic component, but you&#8217;re able to blend the two and you&#8217;re a true citizen of the world, truly traveled across the globe. And all of that shows through not only your examples that you share,</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Right.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
but also in your writing and the depth of your research that isn&#8217;t just focused on one hemisphere, as sometimes we might fall into the trap of doing. And therefore, this book is truly something that everyone can benefit from because it has global application. To that end, tell us, you and Margaret Moore, who I&#8217;m also a tremendous fan of, decided to combine your years of experience to write this book. How did that happen?</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Well, it&#8217;s obviously these things, it&#8217;s a long convoluted story as to how it all fell in place, but Margaret Moore is one of the co-founders of the Institute of Coaching. She has a very long celebrated career in research and science. She was actually a biotech executive before she went into the coaching space. And then I have a psychology background and</p>
<p>was a executive coach and psychologist for a number of years before I joined the Institute of Coaching. So together we have been working, bringing the science of coaching to coaches for over a decade. And we started having a conversation with a publisher a couple of years ago around the lack of access that leaders have, not just coaches, but leaders.</p>
<p>to the latest and greatest research on what makes leadership effective. And we all discussed with the publisher the fact that there are so many academic publications over the last 20, 30 years of research that look at different components of leadership. And they are then written up in academic journals.</p>
<p>And they&#8217;re really interesting if you like reading academic journals. But the reality is that the vast majority of day-to-day leaders, and you know this as well as I do, the people we coach, they don&#8217;t have time to read academic research. They know that it&#8217;s there. They get a little summary here and there from Harvard Business Review or from Forbes. But in general, the academic research that has been building strongly over the last decades</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
is really not accessible or not day-to-day usable for most leaders. And so Margaret and I decided with the support of our publisher to basically go through a summary of all the research in the last 20 or 25 years around leadership effectiveness, all the studies. And we did not read 15,000 studies, but what we did do is we went through them.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
So</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
bulk of the majority of studies in the last five years on all the different topics related to leadership. And you can imagine it&#8217;s servant leadership, transformational leadership, authentic leadership, agile, there&#8217;s so many different versions, right? And what we tried to do was then putting on our coach hats, we took that research summary</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Yes, absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
and tried to frame it in such a way that this great academic work, by the way, that includes 22 countries around the world. So it&#8217;s global research, academics from universities all over the world. We look for a way to frame it so that it would be accessible and practical. We created a framework with what we considered to be the nine most studied</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
you</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
competencies or modalities of leadership. And then we incorporated the two things that I think are really crucial to any leader, which is coaching stories, like real life stories of how these apply, and then finally some practices. So each chapter has real practices that leaders can put into action, or they could work with a coach and use them. The book could be&#8230;</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Mm-hmm.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
used by the leader by him or herself, or it could be used with a coach. But each chapter, each of the nine areas that we focused on has specific practices. So the idea fundamentally was to take really rich research and translate it into something accessible.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Excellent.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
And that you&#8217;ve done. So, and thank you for giving me an early copy. I have a digital copy. Normally I&#8217;d have it on my shelf here. Excuse me, sharing that. Now I&#8217;m getting all choked up talking to you. Normally I&#8217;d have that on display. So I have had a chance to read it and it&#8217;s precisely everything you described. So the idea that you have taken 15,000 specific scientific studies across 22 different countries.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
That&#8217;s okay.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
applied your 20,000 hours of coaching to distill it in a way that would be meaningful to not just those in the executive suite who want to understand leadership, no matter what level they&#8217;re at, but also to those who will coach them. That&#8217;s quite powerful. And as evidence of the quality of the research you put into this book, you have some very impressive endorsements.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Right.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
When you open it up and you see that none other than noted Harvard Business School professor, Amy Edmondson has endorsed this book. Global executive coaching leader and thinker, Marshall Goldsmith has endorsed this book. And the CEO of the International Coaching Federation, Magda Mook has endorsed it. Just to say a couple of people, that tells you the quality of the book and what people think about, who&#8217;s the target audience?</p>
<p>These people have said this is the book you want to read if you&#8217;re in these lanes.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Yeah, I think what&#8217;s unique is this approach that we took to leadership is that the vast majority, there&#8217;s hundreds and hundreds of leadership books, and some really good ones. And I think, in fact, you&#8217;ve written a couple of good ones yourself. So there&#8217;s some really good leadership stuff out there. But what we tried to do was to look at the</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
studies that academic researchers have been doing on the different domains of leadership over the last decade, couple of decades. And recognizing that the science, I mean, I think most people think of leadership as an art and the science. It&#8217;s a little bit of both. And a lot of the art of leadership is written about by coaches like yourself or me, and also by famous</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
famous CEOs, know, Jeff Bezos or CEO Elon Musk or the CEO of Starbucks. What was his name? I&#8217;m forgetting, but you know who I&#8217;m talking about.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Yes, I can&#8217;t believe I forget Howard Schultz.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Howard Schultz, yeah. So they write these wonderful stories and they&#8217;re very inspiring. And I think they can be really helpful to leaders, but every leadership dynamic is unique. So you can&#8217;t just read Jeff Bezos&#8217; story and try to replicate that. That&#8217;s a unique situation. It&#8217;s inspiring, but it&#8217;s a particular moment in time with a particular idea. It&#8217;s like an entrepreneur&#8217;s leadership. What we tried to do</p>
<p>is look at the research that is more across the board, across the landscape of leadership, summarize the findings that these professors of 22 different universities across the globe have discovered, and then make that information, which is available in the public domain, but it&#8217;s not easy to read. It takes a lot of extra time and energy. We tried to summarize it in a way</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
that is really simple, very accessible, and also creates a roadmap for leaders. Whether a senior leader or a starting out leader, you can&#8217;t really be good at everything right from the beginning, right? You have to grow, you have to learn.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Are you sure? Because there are some folks that would argue with you on that one now.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
They wake up one day and they&#8217;re just an expert at every domain of leadership, right? I wish that were the case.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Yes, yes. Well, you brought it down to nine specific areas. I won&#8217;t ask you to give us all nine, but can you tell us, is there one that&#8217;s more important than all of the nine?</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
That&#8217;s a very difficult question because I think it would depend on the situation that the leader is facing. But I will, to simplify the framing, one way we did try to think about it was three levels of complexity. And you think about leadership these days in today&#8217;s disrupted world, it&#8217;s a very complex environment that every leader faces. Lots of change.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
artificial intelligence and all the globalization and the political spheres, very complex. But there are definitely three levels at which every leader needs to operate. The first is within themselves. You have to start with yourself, right? You have to know yourself. You have to look at your strengths. You have to look at what your development opportunities are as an individual. Secondly, you have to look around at the people you interact with.</p>
<p>your team, your subordinates, your board of directors, whoever is above, below, and around you. So the second level is your facing your others, the teams. And then finally, when you get to be a sophisticated leader at any level, you wanna start to think about the system. You wanna think about the organization and the broader impact. So we did frame the book into three levels, self, other, and system.</p>
<p>and then interspersed the nine domains. So there&#8217;s three in each of them.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
So is it meant to be an SOS on purpose, Jeff?</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Actually, now that you say that, that&#8217;s true.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Hey, because I know for some leaders, where we are today with all of, as you mentioned, the complexity that we&#8217;re facing, it is truly an SOS. And I love, as you mentioned several times, the idea that you&#8217;ve taken all this research that exists in the public domain and it&#8217;s available, right? Knowledge is exponential these days, but how can we get the specific component that we need in the moment in time that we need it? And so you&#8217;ve</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Right?</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Right.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
You&#8217;ve brought it down to these three specific areas that leaders can challenge themselves and do it, or as you mentioned, be able to work with their coach and do this to be able to have a focused approach to their leadership development.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
That&#8217;s right.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Yes, absolutely. And the idea is to start where you are as a leader. And you asked me, you know, what is the most important of the nine? And if I was forced to answer the question, because I think they&#8217;re all important, but the very first step into this roadmap, we call conscious leadership. And consciousness is about awareness.</p>
<p>So starting point for all of us as leaders, whether it&#8217;s you or me or anyone else that aspires or works in a leadership domain, is to know ourselves. And so seeing yourself clearly is always the place to start. And that means your willingness to receive some feedback, whether it&#8217;s through an assessment or through colleagues or through a coach.</p>
<p>but getting some feedback so that you can understand your strengths and maybe your, what we call shadows or your triggers or some of the things that are not quite so friendly about all of us. We all have them. We all have to become aware of them. We all have to look at ways we can be more present and more mindful. So conscious leadership is really the starting point. And then you&#8217;re.</p>
<p>You leap forward from there into authentic leadership and relational leadership and positive leadership and servant leadership and ultimately transformational leadership. And I&#8217;ll let you, we can decide what we key in on in this conversation.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
You know, this is my, this is why I invited you all, right? This is the area I&#8217;m so passionate about because there are so many aspects of leadership and to your point, it depends on who the leader is, where they&#8217;re leading, in terms of the organization that they&#8217;re leading, which country are they leading in? What is the demographics? So it&#8217;s so.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Hahaha</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Right.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
dependent and it&#8217;s the idea that there&#8217;s only one way to do it, one way to be successful is wrong to make that conclusion. So it&#8217;s good to have this exposure to a full breadth of leadership principles, leadership concepts, leadership theory, and then see how they should be applied. And you expose the reader to that and then you show them what that looks like in practical application.</p>
<p>through the stories that you introduce the leaders to. Now, you also talk about the cost of not taking action. What does the, or how much does it cost organizations when they tolerate poor leadership?</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Right.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Well, I think the statistics of engagement and burnout, lack of engagement and burnout. I&#8217;m not quite up on the latest McKinsey studies, but they haven&#8217;t gotten much better over the last couple of years. And burnout is at an all time high, engagement is at an all time low. And a lot of that, I mean, I hate to say it, but it really does trace back to the leaders effectiveness.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Yes, sir.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
I mean, people look to their leaders to create the space, to create the tone, to create the culture that inspires, motivates, and has people have a desire to be engaged with them towards a goal. And there are, as you said, there is a lot of different ways to approach that. And what we do in our book is ask a leader</p>
<p>who&#8217;s starting to read the book to do a quick assessment of these nine capacities, these nine capabilities, and think about what their strengths are, because some leaders have a natural strength in some domains. But then to realize that there&#8217;s a lot more that they can grow, they can learn, and then maybe go through the entire book step by step, or just choose, you know, there have been clients of mine</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Thank you.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
who have looked at the nine domains and said to me, you know, Jeff, there&#8217;s a couple of things that jump out at me. Number one, I don&#8217;t really understand what you mean by positive leadership. And number two, I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;m very good at shared leadership. So let&#8217;s talk about those two. And those are two of the chapters in the book. So we&#8217;ll focus in on positive leadership. What does that really mean?</p>
<p>and then we&#8217;ll focus in on shared leadership. What does that really mean and how can you apply that? So, you you don&#8217;t have to do all nine, but recognizing that in order to really increase the level of commitment, engagement, minimize the burnout of your team, it helps to really have an awareness of these different domains and how they could be put to use with your real life situation.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Thank you. And in addition to what you talked about in the book and also in our conversation about engagement, you shared a staggering number with me that I want to highlight. Everything that you said, then you put a price tag on it. You said it&#8217;s costing $360 billion. And when we just think about how organizations are doing layoffs or taking other maneuvers to shore up the bottom line, if we did something about leadership, that</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
you</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
in and of itself would go a long way to showing off the bottom line because it would solve all the things that you just mentioned.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Yeah, and I think it&#8217;s also safe to say that the emergence of artificial intelligence is going to create additional complexity for leaders to make decisions about how to elevate the human element that is really crucial for their success and to think about what could be replaced with artificial intelligence tools and</p>
<p>You know, those human beings that are still working in the real world, even with AI, they need to be led in a way that they are inspired, they&#8217;re connected, they&#8217;re engaged. And so even as we become more technological in our organizations, we are still going to have to create environments where human beings are creative and innovative. you know, your leaders are the ones that create that atmosphere.</p>
<p>If you want to get innovation, you&#8217;re going to need to be a good leader. If you want to have creativity, if you want to have transformation, if you want to be on the leading edge, your people are going to look to you as a leader to create that environment. So knowing these themes is going to be really important.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Indeed.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Indeed. Now, you, as I mentioned earlier, aren&#8217;t just an academic. You are that person who is a professor at the prestigious Harvard University. And I forgot when you mentioned in Berlin and other places, New York University. But you also came out of the business world. So you saw what this looked like. You worked at places like Goldman Sachs and other prestigious firms. Can you tell us how</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Right.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
your unique lens of actually been in top corporations and now in top academia, how that really comes through to help leaders to understand the steps they need to take.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Well, for me, my early corporate career was with Booz Allen &amp; Hamilton, one of the big consulting firms. And when I was with them as a director of HR, I was very aware in early days of coaching these executives, whether it was the partners at Booz Allen or some of the senior executives at our clients, we worked at Citibank, we worked at Goldman, that, you know, they&#8230;</p>
<p>were brilliant. In many cases, they&#8217;re really, really smart, really, really successful, highly educated, but they struggled too with how to motivate people. They struggled with feedback because it&#8217;s sometimes painful to take feedback. you think of yourself as being a straight A student or going to Harvard Business School. And then all of a sudden you get a coach one day like Dr. Jeffrey Hull who says, well, maybe you&#8217;re not as good at this.</p>
<p>as you thought. It&#8217;s like humbling, right? And ironically, humility in our book is a part a big part of the chapter on servant leadership. And things like humility are actually really key to success. So, you know, what I learned early on in my corporate career was to be humble myself to not get too full of myself as a leader or as a coach.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
And then we&#8217;re crushed.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
but also to help my clients recognize that when they had some humility, they had some willingness to be transparent about their strengths and their opportunities, their growth opportunities. People are drawn to that, it&#8217;s magnetic. And all of a sudden, instead of being cocky or having all the answers, the people they&#8217;re leading are like, wow, I love you, you&#8217;re so human.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Yeah, yes.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
You&#8217;re so real. And that is a stepping stone into one of the chapters in the book, which is on servant leadership, being a servant of your people, stepping from behind, leading, as they say, from behind. It&#8217;s actually one of the most sophisticated of all the leadership capacity.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
So Jeff, that&#8217;s a far cry from what we learned in the 60s and 70s where you were told you had to be hard, tough, you know, completely different breed. They would call that something very different today. So, yes. Yes.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Hahaha!</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
But there&#8217;s a place for that too. So that&#8217;s the interesting thing. I don&#8217;t believe in throwing baby out with the bathwater. So if you have an emergency or you have an urgent situation or you have a pandemic, for example, you do need to be a strong, authoritative leader and there is a role for that. But that is, you&#8217;re making the point, Eddie, which is really crucial, which is if you&#8230;</p>
<p>If you are just one type, you will not be successful in today&#8217;s world. You need a variety, you need agility, you need to be able to choose based on the context.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Yeah, one of my favorite analogies comes from Daniel Goldman&#8217;s work, landmark article in Harvard Business Review, where he likened leadership to a club, set of golf clubs that depending on where you are, you&#8217;re going to pull up the right club for that part of the course. You&#8217;re just swinging the driver everywhere, being authoritative. That&#8217;s not going to work so well.</p>
<p>But to your point, little humility, a little putter, a little gentle. That&#8217;s what we need most of the time, right? When you get stuck in the sand trap, you got to block that sand wedge, right? So it&#8217;s having the appropriate range as a leader to know which one you should use when.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
I love that.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Right, right, yeah.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Right, absolutely.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Fascinating. Well, I can&#8217;t let you get out of here. You are the executive director of the Institute of Coaching, a prestigious organization that many coaches look to for the latest and greatest insights to guide us in the work that we&#8217;re doing. Please just give us one morsel that you can share with us that we need to know about as we&#8217;re facing the end of the year.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
I mean, my favorite theme coming out of the book, the latest book with Margaret, is to think about sharing your leadership. So this is a sophisticated concept, but I like to lead this with people, which is transfer the I to we when you&#8217;re leading. Elevate everyone around you to be a leader with you.</p>
<p>We need to have more leaders in the organizations we work with. So rather than just the pinnacle leader at the top, think about if you&#8217;re a boss, ask yourself, am I leading alone or am I leading with others? And if I need to lead with others, how do I do that? How do I shift from?</p>
<p>I to we, elevating, empowering, growing. At the end of the day, we want to create as many leaders as possible because we need those talent. We need that talent in today&#8217;s world.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Absolutely beautiful. We appreciate that. Well, I&#8217;ve been talking to Dr. Jeffrey Hull, bestselling author of Flex and his new book, The Science of Leadership. He&#8217;s a part of the Harvard faculty that Stakers 50 named him one of the top 50 coaches in the world. And he is a member of Marshall Goldsmith&#8217;s esteemed 100 coaches. I neglected to mention that.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
I think that&#8217;s how I met you. we did that&#8217;s right.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Yes, yes. Well, I think you and I knew each other before that. I met you at the Institute of Coaching&#8217;s conference in 2015 or 2016. We became Marshall Goldstein colleagues five years later. Yes. And then of course, we mentioned that you are the executive director of the prestigious Institute of Coaching and the CEO of Leadership. What&#8217;s the most important concept you want to</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Right?</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
That&#8217;s right, that&#8217;s right.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
keeping a walk away from our conversation with today.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Leadership is a journey of learning and growth like everything else in life. And there&#8217;s a lot of good science. It&#8217;s an art to be a good leader, but there is science, there is research, there is demonstrated evidence. And Margaret and I are trying to make that available.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Fantastic. Is there a quote that you use or a short story that you use that helps you keep leading?</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
My favorite mantra is the time to be present is when there&#8217;s no time to be present.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
I like that. I like that.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
I use that with my clients every day. The time to be focused is when there&#8217;s no time to be focused. Variations. But basically, if you feel rushed, that&#8217;s the time to take a deep breath, calm down, and refocus. Get present.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
That&#8217;s so true.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Well, thank you for sharing that. And where could people learn more about you?</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Easily on LinkedIn, just put my name, Jeffrey Hull, or institutivecoaching.org, or thescienceofleadership.com, or jeffreyhull.com. So, a bunch of places.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Fantastic. We&#8217;ll be sure to put that in the show notes. Thank you again for your time, for your wisdom and knowledge that you&#8217;re sharing into the world. I appreciate you. And I know that the millions of cultures around the world and leaders appreciate all the great work that you&#8217;re doing.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Okay.</p>
<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull:</strong><br />
Thank you, Eddie. It&#8217;s great to think back and realize that we&#8217;ve been friends for many years. I wish you all the best with your podcast, with your writing, with your coaching, and it&#8217;s been great fun.</p>
<p><strong>Eddie Turner:</strong><br />
Thank you. And thank you for listening. That concludes this episode, ladies and gentlemen. I&#8217;m Eddie Turner reminding you that leadership is not about our position or our title. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It&#8217;s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It&#8217;s not a garment that we put on or take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So whatever you&#8217;re doing, always keep leading.</p>
<p>The post <a href="https://eddieturnerllc.com/keep-leading-podcast/the-science-of-leadership/">Keep Leading!® Podcast 169 | Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D. |  The Science of Leadership</a> appeared first on <a href="https://eddieturnerllc.com">Eddie Turner</a>.</p>
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		<title>Keep Leading!® Podcast Episode 054 &#124; Hyper Agility Leadership &#124; Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D</title>
		<link>https://eddieturnerllc.com/keep-leading-podcast/keep-leading-podcast-episode-054-hyper-agility-leadership/</link>
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		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2020 12:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Keep Leading!® Podcast]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eddie Turner]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hyper Agility Leadership]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jeffrey Hull]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Keep Leading Podcast]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leadership]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Ph.D.]]></category>
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					<description><![CDATA[<p>Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D Best-Selling Author, Psychologist, Leadership Coach, and Harvard Faculty. Hyper Agility Leadership Episode Summary Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D. BCC is a Clinical Instructor in Psychology at Harvard Medical School and adjunct Professor of Leadership at New York University. Dr. Hull is an accomplished writer and researcher who has published articles in Harvard Business Review,  [...]</p>
<p>The post <a href="https://eddieturnerllc.com/keep-leading-podcast/keep-leading-podcast-episode-054-hyper-agility-leadership/">Keep Leading!® Podcast Episode 054 | Hyper Agility Leadership | Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D</a> appeared first on <a href="https://eddieturnerllc.com">Eddie Turner</a>.</p>
]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D</strong><br />
<em>Best-Selling Author, Psychologist, Leadership Coach, and Harvard Faculty.</em><br />
<em><strong>Hyper Agility Leadership</strong></em></p>
<p><iframe src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=CSN1066123880" width="100%" height="200" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe></p>
<p><strong>Episode Summary</strong><br />
Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D. BCC is a Clinical Instructor in Psychology at Harvard Medical School and adjunct Professor of Leadership at New York University. Dr. Hull is an accomplished writer and researcher who has published articles in Harvard Business Review, The New York Times, Coaching World and other leading business publications. He is also the Director of Education and Business Development at the Institute of Coaching, a Harvard Medical School Affiliate. We discussed his bestselling book: “FLEX: The Art and Science of Leadership in A Changing World.”</p>
<p><strong>Check out this 60 Second preview of the episode!</strong><br />
<div class="fusion-video fusion-youtube" style="--awb-max-width:600px;--awb-max-height:360px;"><div class="video-shortcode"><div class="fluid-width-video-wrapper" style="padding-top:60%;" ><iframe title="YouTube video player 2" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SVRNUML1bPw?wmode=transparent&autoplay=0" width="600" height="360" allowfullscreen allow="autoplay; fullscreen"></iframe></div></div></div></p>
<p><strong>Bio</strong><br />
Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D. BCC is CEO of Leadershift, Inc. a leadership development consultancy based in New York City and author of the best-selling book, FLEX: The Art and Science of Leadership in A Changing World, published in June 2019 by Penguin-Random House. A highly sought-after speaker, consultant and executive coach, Dr. Hull is a Clinical Instructor in Psychology at Harvard Medical School and adjunct Professor of Leadership at New York University. He is also the Director of Education and Business Development at the Institute of Coaching, a Harvard Medical School Affiliate. An accomplished writer/researcher, Dr. Hull has published articles in Harvard Business Review, The New York Times, Coaching World and other leading business publications. He can be reached at www.jeffreyhull.com</p>
<p><strong>Website</strong><br />
<a href="https://www.jeffreyhull.com/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.jeffreyhull.com/</a></p>
<p><strong>Other Website</strong><br />
<a href="https://instituteofcoaching.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://instituteofcoaching.org/</a></p>
<p><strong>LinkedIn</strong><br />
<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffrey-hull-ph-d-bcc-062b09/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffrey-hull-ph-d-bcc-062b09/</a></p>
<p><strong>Twitter</strong><br />
<a href="https://twitter.com/Dr_Jeffrey_Hull" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://twitter.com/Dr_Jeffrey_Hull</a></p>
<p><strong>Facebook</strong><br />
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/jeffreyhullphd/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.facebook.com/jeffreyhullphd/</a></p>
<p><strong>Leadership Quote</strong><br />
&#8220;Be a student even when you become a teacher.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>Get Your Copy of Jeff’s Book!</strong><br />
<a href="https://www.jeffreyhull.com/flex" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.jeffreyhull.com/flex</a></p>
<p><strong>Subscribe, Share and Review</strong><br />
<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/keep-leading/id1461490512" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><img decoding="async" class="wp-image-895 alignnone" src="https://eddieturnerllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Subscribe-on-iTunes-Button.png" alt="" width="201" height="73" srcset="https://eddieturnerllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Subscribe-on-iTunes-Button-200x73.png 200w, https://eddieturnerllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Subscribe-on-iTunes-Button-300x109.png 300w, https://eddieturnerllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Subscribe-on-iTunes-Button.png 374w" sizes="(max-width: 201px) 100vw, 201px" /></a></p>
<p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Flex-Science-Leadership-Changing-World-ebook/dp/B07L2HZBKH" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><img fetchpriority="high" decoding="async" class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2142" src="https://eddieturnerllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/episode54-book.jpg" alt="Flex: The Art and Science of Leadership in a Changing World" width="350" height="530" srcset="https://eddieturnerllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/episode54-book-198x300.jpg 198w, https://eddieturnerllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/episode54-book-200x303.jpg 200w, https://eddieturnerllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/episode54-book.jpg 350w" sizes="(max-width: 350px) 100vw, 350px" /></a></p>
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<h3>Transcript</h3>
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<p><em>This podcast is part of the C Suite Radio Network, turning the volume up on business.</em></p>
<p><em>Welcome to the <strong>Keep Leading!® Podcast</strong>, the podcast dedicated to promoting leadership development and sharing leadership insights. Here&#8217;s your host, The Leadership Excelerator®, Eddie Turner.</em></p>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Hello, everyone! Welcome to the <strong>Keep Leading!® Podcast</strong>, the podcast dedicated to leadership development and insights. I&#8217;m your host, Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. I work with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact.</p>
<p>		Now, I may be The Leadership Excelerator® but my guest today really takes leadership to another level. I am super excited to talk to you Dr. Jeffrey Hull, a board-certified coach, who is a leadership development consultant based in New York City and the author of the book Flex: The Art and Science of Leadership in A Changing World. And we&#8217;re going to talk to Dr. Hull today and understand just what he means by being able to flex. And when he says the art and science in his book, he is serious. There is a lot of science around leadership in this book and that&#8217;s because Dr. Hull is a clinical instructor in Psychology at Harvard Medical School. He&#8217;s also an adjunct professor of Leadership at New York University. He&#8217;s the director of Education and Business Development at the Institute of Coaching, a Harvard Medical School affiliate. He&#8217;s an accomplished writer and researcher whose published work appears in the Harvard Business Review, The New York Times, Coaching World and other leading business publications. I am super excited to have with me today, Dr. Jeffrey Hull. </p>
<p>		Dr. Hull, welcome to <strong>Keep Leading!® Podcast</strong>.
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Hey, Eddie. Thank you. It&#8217;s a pleasure to be here.
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		I am so happy to have you with me. And I got to tell folks how we met. You and I met at the Institute of Coaching. They had a leadership retreat for the fellows and I met you and I was immediately impressed by you and your level of research and your scholarly intellect is just extremely impressive but what you shared with us, what you brought to us at that retreat was absolutely fascinating. And then you were kind enough to give me a copy of your book. I have a hardcover version of your book. So, I&#8217;m really happy about that. And this is really a good book. And so, I want people to get a chance to learn about you and about this book. </p>
<p>		Tell us what we missed about you though before we get into talking about the book.
	</p></div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		You pretty much covered the landscape pretty well. I think the only thing I would add is that I was a corporate executive before I was a coach and a psychologist.
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Right. I forgot to mention that. Tell us about that.
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		I mean, that&#8217;s only relevant because I kind of did it backwards. A lot of people become psychologists and therapists and then they go into coaching and I actually did it the other way around. I worked in HR and consulting for Booz Allen Hamilton for a whole decade before I decided “I better go back to school and figure out what I&#8217;m doing if I&#8217;m going to start counseling and coaching leaders.” So, that would be the only thing I would add is that I try to blend my corporate background with the psychology background.
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		And that&#8217;s quite telling because many people today are having to go back and retool, as it were, and it&#8217;s encouraging to know that it&#8217;s never too late and you can do it and still end up as a Harvard professor as you did.
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Yeah, exactly. I definitely was one of the older PhD students. So, never too late.
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		And that business background comes through your book and, for me, actually made it even more interesting. When you start to describe the life of a consultant, that&#8217;s when I had to remember that “Oh, you lived that. You aren&#8217;t just talking. You lived that life.”
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		That&#8217;s right.
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		And I&#8217;m sure that serves you well as a professor of Business because you&#8217;re not just doing Psychology at the New York University.
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Exactly. Yeah, I mean, my students at NYU are in business school entrepreneurial programs. I teach a course called C Suite Leadership.
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		That sounds nice.
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Yeah. And it&#8217;s all millennials. So, they keep me on my toes.
	</div>
</div>
<div style="display: table; margin-bottom: 30px">
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
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		Speaking of millennials, you say something very interesting in your book. You said we are all millennials. Tell us why you say that?
	</div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
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		Well, that&#8217;s a great place to start. I think, two reasons. Number one, I think that as a researcher and as a student of leadership, I&#8217;ve been made aware that we have a tendency to get very caught up with our categories – millennials, Gen-X boomers. And to a certain extent that&#8217;s relevant. There are definitely generations, generational differences, but those of us that work every day with folks on all of those different categories, what I come to realize is that many ways we&#8217;re all dealing with the same disruptive changes. We&#8217;re all dealing with technology that&#8217;s 24 hours a day. We&#8217;re all dealing with social media. We&#8217;re all dealing with having our email in our pocket on our phone. We&#8217;re all dealing with the global workplace and the multicultural diversity that&#8217;s coming into the organizations. So, so many of the changes that we think millennials are grappling with and have a particularly different mindset around are all the same that we&#8217;re all grappling with. And then I would add to it that when I work with boomers and I talk to them about “Well, millennials, they want to find a meaningful job and they want more feedback and they want to be coached” and my boomers kind of look at me and go “Well, so do we. We&#8217;re not really different. We may be older.” And they get a little frustrated because the millennials don&#8217;t want to wait but fundamentally, I think, we&#8217;re all going through the same kinds of change.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Yes, yes. And so, I found that very interesting when I read that and when you said that because it is true that the millennial expectations and just a pure gravitational pull up, I guess, if you would say it that way, has really reshaped all of our expectations en masse.
	</div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
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		Right.
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Well, you know it&#8217;s a good book, ladies and gentlemen, when you pick up the book and the top executive coach in the world stamps the book with his approval by saying “It&#8217;s a Tour de France, combining the art and science that makes for great leadership. With real life stories, the latest science and actionable strategies, this book is like a great coach, helping leaders up their game to a whole new level of success.” And that comes from Marshall Goldsmith himself. So, when you pick up this book and you see that, it just really whets your appetite. </p>
<p>		So, you got us off to a good start talking about how you believe we all are millennials and you&#8217;ve discovered that through your client work and I believe that that is a really true statement and I like when you say that. Tell us a little bit, if you would, please, about something else you mentioned that I think matters. You talk about getting in touch with our inner leader. What do you mean by that?
	</p></div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
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		Well, I think that&#8217;s one of the basic premises that I&#8217;m really focused on in this book and in my work as a coach, which is to no longer consider leadership something that is the special trait of a very specific part of the population, that in fact everyone has the potential to become a leader, to step forth and express and be impactful as a leader. And it’s one of the core themes of my book when I talk about the evolution of alpha leaders and the emergence of what I call beta leaders is that we&#8217;ve moved into, what I call, post-heroic age where you don&#8217;t have to just be a charismatic extroverted personality to be a leader. You can be a quiet leader. You can be much more impactful just by being present in a whole different way.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		So, Jeff, you&#8217;re saying that I don&#8217;t have to be bombastic or obnoxious to be a leader? I can be quiet.
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
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<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		In fact, being quiet may be even more impactful.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
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		Tell me more.
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
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<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Well, I think a lot of it is about the combination of the organizations are flattening, teamwork is becoming more important, the ability to collaborate and create an environment where everyone is participating. And so, the bombastic, driven charismatic leader has a place but someone who&#8217;s actually a more of a listener, more of a collaborator, more of creating an environment where everyone participates is also really impactful in today&#8217;s world. So, that opens up the door for everyone to find their inner leader.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Absolutely. And I really appreciated reading that in your work because I&#8217;ve become very passionate about that, especially in my work with emerging leaders. I work at a couple of universities with emerging young people. And those who are introverts, those who are a little bit more on the timid side or the quiet side, as you say, they believe they can&#8217;t be a leader. And so, your work reveals that quite the opposite is true.
	</div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
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		Right. Absolutely.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Good. Now, you mentioned the alpha leader versus the beta leader. Talk about that.
	</div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Well, first of all, I wouldn&#8217;t say it&#8217;s versus. I would say the alpha leader and the beta leader. And then sometimes they come in the same package.
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
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		Really?
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Yeah. So, one of the first case studies that sort of set me on the path, and I described this in the book, was recognizing that some of the leaders that I worked with that were the most effective in the past few years have started to demonstrate this ability to move back and forth in their leadership style between being charismatic and driven and more demanding and authoritative and then being more quiet and empathetic and listening and even being vulnerable. And so, I have a case study early in the book of actually a surgeon, which of all things you would think surgeon got to be the most dictator authoritative leader you could imagine and, in fact, of course, when you go under the knife with the surgeon, you definitely want them to be in charge just like your pilot in your plane, you want them to be authoritative and be able to make decisions, but at the same time, in fact, even during the same day, that surgeon that was my first case study was able to switch gears and be, what I call, hyper agile and actually become a listener, become empathetic, become a counselor and become a facilitator. And he did all of those things all in the space of one working day. Granted it did start at 5 o&#8217;clock in the morning. So, it was a long day but what he demonstrated and what I ultimately ended up researching in much more detail was this new ability of leaders be flexible in their style, that leadership is no longer a one-size-fits-all approach to working in organizations effectively.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Fascinating. I really liked when you explained that and I hadn&#8217;t thought of that. So, it&#8217;s not either-or. It&#8217;s yes-and.
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
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		Exactly.
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		So, this surgeon who is authoritative, who&#8217;s commanding, he&#8217;s in control in the operating room where everything must be precisely done according to a plan, then shifts gears and becomes an empathetic facilitative counselor at the bedside of the patient.
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
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		Well, not even just the patient. He did that with his own colleagues.
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
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		Oh, with the colleagues. I missed that.
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Yeah. Patient, yes, but even more profound when it comes from leadership is that the very people he was directing in the operating room, he would then two hours later facilitate and listen and be collaborative with. So, it’s the ability to literally take off that hierarchical hat and put yourself down at the same level with everyone and be just one of the gang and do it authentically and have people really speak up for him to be more of a counselor in the room.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		I like that. Now, extrapolate that lesson for leaders today, if you would.
	</div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Well, I think, really, it&#8217;s an example, it’s a scenario or a case of what I&#8217;m pointing to in my entire book, which is that there&#8217;s an opportunity and a need for us to broaden the way we see leadership. And that tried and true sort of hierarchical authoritative style is absolutely appropriate in situations like surgery and flying a plane or in emergencies but at the other end of the spectrum, what we want today in our organizations is creativity and innovation and we want people to speak up with their ideas and be willing to take risks and try out new things. And that requires a leader to be able to step back and look around and become more of an invitation to having people share from a different place of authenticity. And it requires leaders to be humble. It requires leaders to be vulnerable. So, what I talk about in my book, when you look at flexibility or what we&#8217;re calling hyper agility, is that ability to switch gears. It’s like stretching that muscle of leadership and literally minute by minute reflect on what the context requires.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		So, Jeff, are you saying that hyper agility is the next generation of leadership?
	</div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Absolutely, yeah, I think from one end of the spectrum to the other. I have some of my kind of alpha male type leaders say to me “Oh, so you are kind of putting us all out to pasture, right?” I&#8217;m like “No, that&#8217;s not what I&#8217;m saying. I&#8217;m saying that you want to develop a flexible style so that you can change and be more welcoming and encourage the introverts or the more sensitive or creative, innovative folks to speak up.” And, likewise, those same people that are more introverted, they need to get in touch with their inner authoritative style. So, they need to learn to speak up, be directive, and be able to be decisive. So, it&#8217;s not an either-or combination. It&#8217;s a plus. It&#8217;s a being able to move back and forth and expand your leadership capabilities along a whole spectrum.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Fantastic. Thank you. </p>
<p>		We&#8217;re talking to Dr. Jeffrey Hull and he is explaining to us hyper agility. It&#8217;s the next generation of leadership based on his work in the book Flex: The Art and Science of Leadership in A Changing World. We&#8217;ll have more from Dr. Hull right after this.
	</p></div>
</div>
<p><em>This podcast is sponsored by Eddie Turner LLC. Organizations who need to accelerate the development of their leaders call Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®. Eddie works with leaders to accelerate performance and drive impact. Call Eddie Turner to help your leaders one on one as their coach or to inspire them as a group through the power of facilitation or a keynote address. Visit <strong><a href="https://eddieturnerllc.com/">EddieTurnerLLC.com</a></strong> to learn more. </em></p>
<p><em>This is Karen Jacobsen, the GPS Girl, and you have reached your destination because you&#8217;re listening to the <strong>Keep Leading!® Podcast</strong> with Eddie Turner.</em></p>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Okay, we&#8217;re back. We&#8217;re talking to Dr. Jeffrey Hull. We&#8217;re talking about hyper agility, the next generation of leadership based on Dr. Hull’s book Flex: The Art and Science of Leadership in A Changing World. </p>
<p>		I&#8217;m really enjoying this conversation. And you are highlighting areas of leadership that I believe in and you highlight it in a different way. And there&#8217;s something that you said earlier that I want to ask you about, Dr. Hull. A lot of us as coaches, we believe in observing our clients real time in their environment. For most of us, in fact, everybody I know, that usually involves following them around an office, sitting around a boardroom table. I don&#8217;t know anyone who is involved going into the operating room putting on scrubs. And in the book when you describe that experience, I went “Wow! How cool is that?” Tell us about that.
	</p></div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Well, it was a rather unique experience even for me but I&#8217;ve done it actually more than once. I think when you&#8217;re trying to coach executives in the healthcare space that are anesthesiologists or surgeons, it really is profoundly helpful to see them in action. So, I had to steal myself to be in the operating room and watch the blood spurt as they sliced open a body right in front of me but just the teamwork is an amazing experience to see firsthand. And I think anytime as a coach you get an opportunity to see people do their real job, I look to do that not just in operating rooms but also like in start-up situations where I&#8217;ve worked with teams where I&#8217;ve spent the day shadowing the CEO, shadowing the Head of Engineering, watching them in meetings, seeing them in real time. That&#8217;s when you can really get to see the style of leadership that they use and what are their strengths, what are their special talents, and how then as coaches we can help to expand that repertoire.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Absolutely. Yes. No, I take my hat off to you because you&#8217;re the first I&#8217;ve heard going to the operating room. What was it like the first time?
	</div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Well, I almost fainted. I mean, the thing that&#8217;s shocking in an operation when you&#8217;re observing it is the smell of blood because I forgot that. It&#8217;s one thing to look at the squirt of the red blood but it&#8217;s another to smell it. It&#8217;s pretty intense. And the other thing that was funny or unique about it is I didn&#8217;t realize and, of course, in retrospect, it makes perfect sense, but they draw on you. When you go to surgery and they put you out, then they use a magic marker to draw on your body exactly where they&#8217;re going to cut. So, they literally make a drawing. And the surgeon was kind of doing a doodle on this poor guy&#8217;s shoulder because it was his shoulder, he had broken his shoulder bone.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Yes. Like I said, I just want to get your first hand perspective on that. You are a much better man than I am. I will follow my clients a lot of places. I&#8217;d have to really think long and hard about into the operating room. So, kudos to you. Thank you for bringing that alive for us in your book and drawing the connection. </p>
<p>		Now, something interesting happens. You&#8217;ve referenced him a little bit in the first part of our interview but later on, you make a tie to this experience of following the surgeon and bringing him at the end of your book into the conversation about somatic leadership. Can you share that with my audience?
	</p></div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Yeah, I think that somatic leadership or what I would call energy-based leadership, when you bring in the physical energy of the leadership act, is a really important component of leadership effectiveness that often gets left out of the mix. We wind up thinking about leadership as kind of talking heads, giving direction, coaching, mentoring, all of which is totally valid but one other aspect that&#8217;s really crucial to the success of a leadership situation is the energy between the leader and his or her followers. And that energy is a physical experience and that physical experience has multiple components. So, for example, it&#8217;s as simple as your physical gestures, your eye contact, your energy, where you put your hands, how you lean or don&#8217;t lean forward with your subordinates as a leader but it&#8217;s bigger than that. It also includes the space of the room that you&#8217;re in, where are you holding your conversation, are you holding it in a board room where there&#8217;s a power seat and a long conference table and the power person sits at the end of the table. Those kinds of energy aspects of leadership make a huge difference. And so, what I wanted to do in the book was to get leaders to really pay attention to how do they create a space and energy both with themselves as the leader and also with the room or the space or the time so that they can create an environment that gets the best out of everyone.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Yes, very nice. Thank you for sharing that. </p>
<p>		Now, you created a framework for your readers. Can you share what that framework is? I love the word. Can you share their framework and walk us through it please?
	</p></div>
</div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Well, the framework evolved out of research that I did with over 1200 coaches because being involved with the Institute of Coaching, which is where you and I met, we have access to hundreds and hundreds of coaches. So, I did focus groups and surveys to find out what are the best coaches in the world working on with their clients these days. And out of that came a framework of six dimensions that more and more often are the areas that we coaches get asked to work on. And those are very quickly decision making, being flexible in your decision making, are you authoritative or are you collaborative, are you consensus driven in your decision making. Communicating is the second one and I call it intentional communication, do you communicate using just facts and data or do you communicate using stories and humor and emotional connection. So, there&#8217;s a lot of different ways to communicate as a leader. And then emotional agility. We hear, obviously, about the research in emotional intelligence. So, the spectrum of whether or not you&#8217;re more conservative around your expression of emotions or whether you&#8217;re highly emotive and empathetic.  So, there&#8217;s a spectrum around emotional agility and that&#8217;s the third dimension. The fourth dimension is about authenticity, how do you express your values as a leader, are you conservative and more restrained and competent or on the other end of the spectrum are you more vulnerable and humble and more open and transparent. And, again, it&#8217;s not one way is right or wrong. They can both be valid and valuable but they are very, very different. And the fourth area in the spectrum is collaboration. So, how do you set up a collaborative environment? As a leader, are you directive, are you a mentor, an advisor or are you more of a coach? And coaching, as you know, Eddie, is really more about getting people to share where they&#8217;re coming from by using powerful questioning. So, collaboration also has a spectrum, whether it&#8217;s more directive or whether it&#8217;s more coaching. And then, finally, my last dimension was about engagement. How do you engage? We just talked about the somatic side of that dimension but engagement is about whether or not you are very results oriented and productivity focused, which many leaders need to be at different times, or whether you&#8217;re more creativity focused and innovative focus. And the innovation style level of engagement is really more fluid and more flexible because what you want in that domain is you want people to feel open to bringing up ideas and brainstorming. And that&#8217;s a very different energy. You can&#8217;t necessarily create new ideas and risk taking when you&#8217;re trying to pound people for results. So, it is a very different dimension in the way you engage with people. So, those are the six different dimensions of the framework and they&#8217;re basically a summary of all the different areas that are very commonly used by coaches in today&#8217;s leadership coaching engagements.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Excellent. So, thank you for sharing that framework. And to make it easier for us, what&#8217;s the acronym you created, Dr. Hull?
	</div>
</div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		It&#8217;s about being FIERCE. So, Flexible, Intentional, Emotional, Real which is the authenticity, Collaborative and Engaged.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Excellent. I love it. Thank you.
	</div>
</div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		I just wanted something that people could hook into so that when they look at the framework, they can very quickly zero in on the dimensions that are of most interest to them.
	</div>
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<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 150px">
		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Absolutely. So, not only do I FLEX but I&#8217;m FIERCE. That&#8217;s what makes this book so powerful. Very cool. </p>
<p>		Well, Dr. Hull, I really enjoyed talking with you. And there&#8217;s a couple of things that I want to make sure folks know. If you were to summarize our conversation, first of all, how would you summarize this? What&#8217;s the key thought you want our listeners to take away from what we talked about?
	</p></div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
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<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		I think the fundamental theme of my book is that the days of having to be a particular personality to become a leader are over, that in today&#8217;s flat, collaborative, team-oriented, diverse environment, anyone, everyone can step up and find their inner leader and the key is to reflect, develop your self-awareness and develop your strengths along those six dimensions because I believe that that&#8217;s what the world needs. We need more people to step into leadership roles.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
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		Indeed, we do, and to step up the right way.
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
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		Exactly.
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
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		Yes.</p>
<p>		This is the <strong>Keep Leading!® Podcast</strong> and on the <strong>Keep Leading!® Podcast</strong>, in addition to the fine content you&#8217;ve given us to consider today, we like to give leaders a short story or a quote that they can use as they continue to keep leading. What quote or words of advice have you received that you&#8217;d like to share with us?
	</div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		So, my favorite quote or thing to remember is that even if you become a leader, your journey is lifelong and that you need to remain a student. Become a student of yourself, of others and of leadership and never stop learning.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
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		Excellent. Thank you. </p>
<p>		Where can my listeners learn more about you?
	</p></div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		They can look me up on my website which is JeffreyHull.com and they can write to me there. I&#8217;m very quick to respond. So, I would be more than happy to be in dialogue with any of your listeners.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		Thank you. And I&#8217;m going to put that into our show notes so that folks even on their mobile devices can get access to you. And you will have a page of course on the KeepLeadingPodcast.com website. You want to connect with Dr. Hull and read his book if you have any interest at all in improving your skills as a leader. Flex: The Art and Science of Leadership in A Changing World. </p>
<p>		Dr. Hull, thank you so much for being a guest on the <strong>Keep Leading!® Podcast</strong>.
	</div>
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		<strong>Dr. Jeffrey Hull:</strong>
	</div>
<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		My pleasure. It&#8217;s great talking to you, Eddie.
	</div>
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		<strong>Eddie Turner:</strong>
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<div style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top;">
		And thank you for listening. That concludes this episode, everyone. I&#8217;m Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator®, reminding you that leadership is not about our title or our position. Leadership is an activity. Leadership is action. It&#8217;s not the case of once a leader, always a leader. It&#8217;s not a garment we put on and take off. We must be a leader at our core and allow it to emanate in all we do. So, whatever you&#8217;re doing, always keep leading.
	</div>
</div>
<p><em>Thank you for listening to your host Eddie Turner on the <strong>Keep Leading!® Podcast</strong>. Please remember to subscribe to the <strong>Keep Leading!® Podcast</strong> on iTunes or wherever you listen. For more information about Eddie Turner&#8217;s work please visit <strong><a href="https://eddieturnerllc.com/">EddieTurnerLLC.com</a></strong>.</em></p>
<p><em>Thank you for listening to C Suite Radio, turning the volume up on business.</em></p>
<p><em>Hey, C Suite Radio listeners, in business is war, then you need the best possible ammunition and training to win the fight. Join us April 19 through April 21, 2020, on the USS Wisconsin in Norfolk, Virginia, for the C Suite Network Leadership Forum. Here distinguished military leaders discuss battle-tested management strategies as you network with America’s top CEOs. Sign up today at <a href="https://c-suiteforums.com/battleshipforum" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">C-SuiteForums.com/battleship</a> and use code ‘Battleshiphero’. You don’t want to miss out on this once-in-a-lifetime experience. Again, that is <a href="https://c-suiteforums.com/battleshipforum" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">C-SuiteForums.com/battleship</a>, code ‘Battleshiphero’. We’ll see you there.</em></p>
<p><em>The Keep Leading!® podcast is for people passionate about leadership. It is dedicated to leadership development and insights. Join your host Eddie Turner, The Leadership Excelerator® as he speaks with accomplished leaders and people of influence across the globe as they share their journey to leadership excellence. Listen as they share leadership strategies, techniques and insights. For more information visit eddieturnerllc.com or follow Eddie Turner on Twitter and Instagram at @eddieturnerjr. Like Eddie Turner LLC on Facebook. Connect with Eddie Turner on LinkedIn.</em></p>
<p>The post <a href="https://eddieturnerllc.com/keep-leading-podcast/keep-leading-podcast-episode-054-hyper-agility-leadership/">Keep Leading!® Podcast Episode 054 | Hyper Agility Leadership | Jeffrey Hull, Ph.D</a> appeared first on <a href="https://eddieturnerllc.com">Eddie Turner</a>.</p>
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